Help needed. France in high era

[afrit]

I have successfully played France in the early era but I keep getting stomped when I start it on high. I have started 2 campaigns (on hard) and each time I got attacked by the HRE AND england.

First time around I was playing defensively, counting on high income from Flanders, Antioch and Tripoli. I was actually running a surplus!. Then I got attacked by HRE in Toulouse. I dragged the siege long enough and then managed to take Lorraine and Burgundy from them. But then England invaded Ile De France and I could not dislodge them. And then Egypt sunk my fleet in Outremer and now I had a third war on my hands : . It was not looking good and I decided to restart.

Second time around, I tried for early alliance with England and HRE in the hope of keeping one of them off my back. No such luck. Both refused. I also built inns in Normandy and Champagne and hired every merc I could get my hands on. I was ready to attack the English in Anjou, but then the HRE again invaded Toulouse. This forced me to divert forces east. Still I declared war on England and beat them out of Anjou and Brittany. Problem is I took so many losses in Anjou that I do not have enough power to finish them off in Aquitaine.

I am going to try again later tonight. I am thinking of either a defensive strategy where I will abandon Toulouse to the Germans (they'll get excommed for it and then other nations may take them out for me) and concentrate on repulsing English attacks in a defensive battle. Or a blitzing strategy where I throw everything at England early on and hope to knock them out of Europe in the first 3-4 turns and then return to fight the (inevitable) attack by the Germans.

Any recommendations? Anyone has a winning strategy for France on high? (specifically on VI and hard setting).

Thanks

afrit

[Sinner]

I'm normally playing the other direction: sending my English armies to thrash the French, but from what I recall of High...

Flanders & Ile de France are your 2 most important regions, for cash/sea link/Wessex link & troop building respectively. I consider Toulouse a nice-to-have region since it has that CK valour bonus, but you can leave that for the initial few years. Toulouse also provides you with a good sea link to the south and a route into the Iron-rich Iberian peninsular, again you have to survive the initial English & HRE assaults before you can worry about your own conquests. If you can, keep Normandy for the title, I recall it gives +1 Command - I rarely assign titles myself, so I'm not 100% sure on that.

I'd concentrate on keeping Flanders & Ile de France, building inns to recuit mercs to help, and primarily push the English, aiming to cripple or take Wessex, their prime troop building region. Try producing a few emissaries to backdoor the English by bribing armies further north or maybe spies to incite Scotland to revolt - the Scots don't need much of an excuse, they're always revolting.

I recall that Burgundy is a good province, so that should probably be your objective in the war against the HRE. It also provides a land link down to Toulouse. I don't often end up fighting them myself, so hopefulyl others can give you a better pointer for dealing with the Germans.

[katank]

I remember smashing all of the English continental possession on turn 1 and using mercs to supplement my forces in striking up to wessex.

In outremer, attack the Eggy in Syria and Edessa immediately and before long you should be at Egypt which is a nice citadel.

I think with the one High French game I played, I had a killer timer rushing and ended up with two nice empires.

In the East, shipping everyone to the front is important.

keep the eastern med open and keep shipping in troops from Cyprus.

Take the war to the enemy and you should be good.

[Blodrast]

hey, you're on the right path ;)
you got the main idea, and Sinner is also right, esp. about Burgundy.

You can take a look at the suggestions I made in the Guides thread for France in high -- oops! looks like they're gone.
Wow, I didn't know some files were lost, but it seems like 80% of the Guides are gone !...

I'll try to post it again.

Edit: ok, posted it again. Here is the link.

[Sociopsychoactive]

I think it might be a better bet to fight defensively against the english while you throw all you have at the HRE. They are still weak at the start of high, so once you get the civil warring (easy to do even in high) then turn to england and beat them off your continent. Inns is a good idea, but don;t be afraid to let the mercs die, they cost to much to let live for that long.

[Blodrast]

Sociopsychoactive, why ?
The HRE doesn't have good provinces (just ordinary ones, nothing outstanding; maybe some iron, but spain's iron is MUCH handier and it comes with much better provinces). HRE doesn't have coastal provinces, either, so: no trade benefits from its provinces, and loyalty problems SURE to appear later on (esp in the inland provinces).

Moreover, HRE being what it is, it will certainly be excommed and as usual everybody will gang up on them, making them so much less of a threat. This is definitely not the case with the English.

On the other hand, English provinces have none of the above mentioned disadvantages, and all the advantages. Not all of them are rich, granted, but you can make good money from Wessex and Mercia, both from farming and from trade.

Besides, a key point is that the English CAN'T defend their island provinces using troops from the mainland ! That's a huge advantage !

I say let them have Aquitaine and Brittany and Anjou, I don't care. I'll take Wessex and Mercia, and let them hit their heads against the troops in Ile-de-France and Flanders and Burgundy.

But I am definitely more than interested to hear your arguments for a pro-kill-HRE standpoint.

[Sociopsychoactive]

The point of going after the HRE is not to get land, and most definately not to keep it. The point is to break their back, so they canot be a significant threat. As it;s starting in hight, the english have enough troops on the mainland to be a serious threat, and the french provinces arn;t developed enough for an instant kick off. The HRE's armies at the start of high are still relatively weak, although they are large in number. After two or three good wins over them you can force them into civil war, then turn your energies and armies to the english. unless provoked the english may well give you time to kick the HRE.

While HRE provinces may be inland they are usefull aswell, if you blitz to switzerland thats always good, if you just take a few borders thats also good as you expand your empire without threat of excommunication, and have (relatively0 easy fights to defend them, if you go merc heavy. Also they are almost all reasonably rich farmland, so get you a steady income which is greatly needed early on.

[Cardinal]

I have noticed that rhe English king starts of in France in "High Era" games, so why not isolate the king from his English provinces by placing boats in the North Sea an English Channel for so to incite revolts in the English provinces?? If they don't revolt, the English tax income will certainly be down and troops will be locked in England/Wales..etc.

Might work!

[afrit]

Cardinal,
Interesting suggestion, but.... Problem is that by the time the french have a serious navy fo defeat England, they have already been attacked by HRE and are fighting a two front war.

Did you try your strategy on a hard setting?

Afrit

[katank]

also, you need to cut the landbridge from flanders to wessex or the effect is not sufficient to produce any significant damage and you must be at war with him too.

far easier to defeat their continental forces and get a ransom.