IGN demo impressions

[CBR]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/540/540898p1.html

And some new screenshots too.

Edit: From what I can see in the screenshots it will be up to 9 valor upgrades and unit icons doesnt have fatigue bars anymore. Not what I would consider improvements..


CBR

[Skomatth]

Omg those elephants look ridiculous. Must have chucked the soldiers into the stratosphere.

[Oaty]

As far as fatigue goes this is just a demo and the original shogun demo did not have fatigue in it nor was there an advantage to fighting downhill. Well I agree fatigue should be in there but should definately change. 1 reason the battle fields are suppose to be bigger. If a unit has not engaged or run it should only lose 1 fatigue bar max (climate permitting exe desert,swamp,hi;lly terrain or other variables). Reenforcements should not lose any fatigue until given an order. Desert battles really sucked in MTW because reinforcements were usually worth crap due to fatigue.

[CBR]

RTW still has fatigue, you can see it in the unit mouse over texts. But I just like to get an overview of it without having to mouse over all my units.

And seems like you get to see the status of enemy units too now.


CBR

[Aelwyn]

Yeah not my favorite thing either. Seems it'll be harder to tell which units are fatigued (maybe not too hard but I'm lazy) and I don't think its a good idea to be able to tell the status of enemy units. In that respect they dumbed it down too much. Yeah they're trying to make it as easy as possible to pick up and play, but I don't like that, if that change is permanent.

Also, I like how the unit icons, mini map, and whatever is on the right, fits at the bottom. But, will you be able to enlarge the mini map at all?

[[DnC]]

Reading it now and enjoying, but aren't the upside down ^'s the fatigue bars? Just a new system perhaps. Don't know what else they could be for, they aren't marching bars, those are the yellow ^ ones uptop if I'm correct.

[CBR]

the yellow ^ on top of an icon is a movement indicator. 1 for marching, 2 for running. You can see it on the vids.


CBR

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

The game looks great. There are quite a few factions in thsi demo, The Julli, Carthage, Gauls and i think another Roman faction at least. So i think we have some modding opportunities with this demo


Also i like the Cretan archers and the new look celtic auxillaries for Carthage but i would like to have seen the Iberian infantry up close but they don't seem to be in the Carthaginian army, which is a shame

[Stuie]

RTW still has fatigue, you can see it in the unit mouse over texts. But I just like to get an overview of it without having to mouse over all my units.

And seems like you get to see the status of enemy units too now.

CBR

Actually, since everyone is always whining about realism, it seems more realistic to me that you have to check with each unit (mouse over) to obtain their current status rather than having it spelled out for you.

Of course seeing the status of enemy units does the opposite.

[Barkhorn1x]

Actually, since everyone is always whining about realism, it seems more realistic to me that you have to check with each unit (mouse over) to obtain their current status rather than having it spelled out for you.

Of course seeing the status of enemy units does the opposite.

I agree here.

Barkhorn.

[[DnC]]

the yellow ^ on top of an icon is a movement indicator. 1 for marching, 2 for running. You can see it on the vids.


CBR

That's what I said ~:p
Or weren't you replying to me?
The fatigue bars I was talking about were the ones on the left of the unit image.

[Sjakihata]

Actually, since everyone is always whining about realism, it seems more realistic to me that you have to check with each unit (mouse over) to obtain their current status rather than having it spelled out for you.

Of course seeing the status of enemy units does the opposite.

Disagreed, micro-management doesnt mean historical accuracy, it means numb fingers and needless work. Bad imo.

[Aelwyn]

That's what I said ~:p
Or weren't you replying to me?
The fatigue bars I was talking about were the ones on the left of the unit image.

I know what you're talking about. And I think those icons refer to valour, or whatever they're gonna call it now. If you can see, there's a bronze looking one, a silver, and a gold. There are some with 2 upside-down ^ bronze things, so thats probably valour 2. 1^silver is probably valour 4, and 1^ gold is probably valour 7, etc. You can also now see weapon and armour upgrades on the unit icons.

The Elephants have me thinking though. In the first screenshot there's 2 units of elephants. The first has 17 at what would appear to be valour 0, and is fighting. The second has 8 at v0 and is running away. So unless the elephants went 'crazy' or whatever happens when they kill your own troops, then they may run away pretty quickly with less casualties. So I'm wondering, will higher valour elephants be less likely to run? Or will they always be unpredictable...

[Steppe Merc]

I'm all for micromanegment (keeps away all the Noobs! ). But I don't really like that you can see your enemies valor. Then again, in a real battle it would probably be easier to tell their moral, but you can't really simulate that to well.
edit: I meant fatigue not valor. :

[Aelwyn]

I'm all for micromanegment (keeps away all the Noobs! ). But I don't really like that you can see your enemies valor.

You could always see your enemies' valour, even in STW. Its their fatigue, and current 'state' that you couldn't see. Knowing when an enemy unit is waivering for example, is too much info to me. Or if they're fatigued, winded...etc.

[Steppe Merc]

That's what I meant, fatigue not valor.

[HicRic]

What ARE those upside-down triangle-type things to the left of the unit picture? If it is fatigue, it looks a bit hard to see. Not to mention it looks like we have to count flags now for valour, as there's nothing on the unit icon to show valour. Just the number of men in the unit.
I guess it would see confusing, though. We've only seen a few screenshots, not actually played the game or read the manual.

[Aelwyn]

What ARE those upside-down triange-type things to the left of the unit picture? If it is fatigue, it looks a bit hard to see. Not to mention it looks like we have to count flags now for valour, as there's nothing on the unit icon to show valour. Just the number in the unit.
I guess it would see confusing, though. We've only seen a few screenshots, not actually played the game or read the manual.

I know what you're talking about. And I think those icons refer to valour, or whatever they're gonna call it now. If you can see, there's a bronze looking one, a silver, and a gold. There are some with 2 upside-down ^ bronze things, so thats probably valour 2. 1^silver is probably valour 4, and 1^ gold is probably valour 7, etc. You can also now see weapon and armour upgrades on the unit icons.

~:p

[[DnC]]

I know what you're talking about. And I think those icons refer to valour, or whatever they're gonna call it now. If you can see, there's a bronze looking one, a silver, and a gold. There are some with 2 upside-down ^ bronze things, so thats probably valour 2. 1^silver is probably valour 4, and 1^ gold is probably valour 7, etc. You can also now see weapon and armour upgrades on the unit icons.

Good thought there Aelwyn, that could also be it. Was already wondering why certain units didn't have those bars on the left, so I was also a bit doubtful about them being fatigue bars, but couldn't think of anything else.

[HicRic]

Sorry, I took ages to post after I typed it, so I hadn't seen that post. That probably is valour. But why that system? A little digit with a number is fine with me. ~:P

[The Blind King of Bohemia]

I have tried to make a small list of the units we have seen for the demo, in the pictures and such as so far i have:


Carthage:

Carthaginian Skirmishers
Sacred band cavalry
Poeni infantry
War Elephant
Armoured war Elephant
Another cavalry unit perhaps the generals unit, not sure

Mercenary for carthage:

A Gallic light infantry unit
Numidian cavalry
Gallic Cavalry
Cretan Archers

Roman army(at Trebia and in the tutorial part)

Hastati
Triarii
Principles
Velites
Roman Archers
Roman General(heavy cavalry)

The gallic army at the bridge has another tyoe of infantry and another unit of cavalry. The infantry definetly differs as in one of the pics at IGN shows a dead Gaul at the roman archers feet.

[CBR]

That's what I said ~:p
Or weren't you replying to me?
The fatigue bars I was talking about were the ones on the left of the unit image.

Gah sorry I didnt read post properly. The small ^ on the left of the icon is valor. You will notice 3 different colors (bronze, silver and gold) and max 3 of them. A total of 9 valor.

Edit: IIRC all the units have the same valor in all the pictures of the battle and its been seen and commented on earlier in a *cough* leaked *cough* "preview" of am earlier beta. These screenshots are just a confirmation of the valor system of RTW.


CBR

[Jacque Schtrapp]

But I don't really like that you can see your enemies valor.

Why? Those same units would have been easily identifiable by their actual unit standards in real life. I'm fairly certan everyone on the battlefield knew which companies were the ones to avoid facing if possible.

[Barkhorn1x]

Disagreed, micro-management doesnt mean historical accuracy, it means numb fingers and needless work. Bad imo.

Ahem...speaking of historical accuracy. No ancient general (or Samurai, or King for that matter) could gauge the exhaustion of his troops by looking at icons at the bottom of a screen!

Barkhorn.

[Sjakihata]

no king, emperor or shogun could magically fly around on the battlefield commanding troops by a single *click* nor did he have a map that automatically updated movements...

[Barkhorn1x]

I'm fairly certan everyone on the battlefield knew which companies were the ones to avoid facing if possible.

Oh, come on - what do they get - an intelligence extract w/ a detailed OB, To&E?

I would think that the Romans would know just a bit about the Hellenic armies and NOTHING about the 'barbarians'. In any case - they certainly woudln't know enough about individual units to go, "See that unit over there, they are some tough ombres!"

We know that stuff like this is a sop to the MP players. Thes things are more than a bit annoying to the SP players (ones that enjoy accuracy and challenge anyway), as they really give the player way too much information.

Barkhorn.

[Barkhorn1x]

no king, emperor or shogun could magically fly around on the battlefield commanding troops by a single *click* nor did he have a map that automatically updated movements...

Yea, no shite. I posted a long time ago that it would be nice to have an option to work through subordinate commaders for an extra taste of realism.

BTW, your comment in no way invalidates mine.

Barkhorn.

[Jacque Schtrapp]

I would think that the Romans would know just a bit about the Hellenic armies and NOTHING about the 'barbarians'. In any case - they certainly woudln't know enough about individual units to go, "See that unit over there, they are some tough ombres!"

Barkhorn.

You might be correct... the FIRST time they faced each other. Each of these cultures fought numerous battles against their foes and were certain to begin to recognize elements of the opposing forces with each subsequent engagement.

[Sjakihata]

Yea, no shite. I posted a long time ago that it would be nice to have an option to work through subordinate commaders for an extra taste of realism.

BTW, your comment in no way invalidates mine.

Barkhorn.

You fail to get the picture. If the big things, like flying around is not fixed, why on earth would they focus on the details?

[CBR]

Im all up for more realism but fatigue is an important part of the battle engine with the combat/morale modifiers you get from fatigue.

And we now have 20 units to control and from what I can see in the vids, gameplay looks even faster. Taking away essential information and forcing you to micromanage to get it is not the way to do it!

And in MP we dont have the luxury of having a pause button. I just prefer a real time strategy game and not a clickfest!


CBR