War Cry - Special Ability

[Red Harvest]

I was experimenting with the Gaul Swordsmen's war cry. Finally turned on tactical advice and it said to use the war cry shortly before charging. Your guys will shout, then bang on their shields. It really seemed to help their charge. Don't know if it adds morale or bonuses at any other time (I think not from messing with it before in other situations.) They tore up the Principes they first encountered on the charge--kill speed was fast. Looks like a "turbo" charge setting.

[Sjakihata]

omg, not more turbo. I like the shield banging though.

I can just imagine the screeching women's special ability...

[Papewaio]

Hmmm can I get Mace Mastery, I know swords are good in a frenzy but all the Paladin Scepters are really super on the base damage.

Have you found the unit that can Find Potion yet?

[Colovion]

First thing I'm doing when I get the full version is maxing Guided Arrow and sourcing for a Windforce for my Archers.

I can't believe they nerfed whirlwind again, my night raiders aren't going to be able to roll over the Spartans anymore.

[Thoros of Myr]

Oh dear...

[andrewt]

After the whirlwind nerf, it's much better to use a sword and shield combo. Use berserk instead and just use whirlwind to replenish your mana. Stun monsters with warcry then use berserk on them.

[Red Harvest]

Guys, I don't think it is that bad. It is a short duration thing when you charge. You do more damage initially. It actually makes some sense (of course it could be part of a standard charge bonus for the unit, but I digress.)

[Colovion]

My wardogs have 115-456 Bite DMG.

OMG they really messed up on that one, they'll be the first to be nerfed in the next patch. Oh wait, they aren't really keen on releasing patches.

I'm off to WD spam and rule the world.

[Sjakihata]

anyone wants to do some egyptian-runs to get t3h le3t artifacts?

[Thoros of Myr]

Artificially raising damage just sounds ludicrous for TW game. Now we have the considerations of an RTS game...I didnt get off my "speacial" so you won..oh dear.

lol Sjakihata

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

It isn't too bad, since I am pretty sure the barbarian peoples (non-Romans, non-Greeks, etc, please don't kill me for using that term) yelled battle cries and such before and maybe during combat. I think the war cry should only contribute -1 morale for nearby enemies and +1 morale for that unit. No charge bonus. Maybe it can be modded to be that way (or something close to that)?

[MadKow]

Is this something you have to time precisely before the charge, or can you leave it on and they will use it when you tell them to charge?

I could live with historical stretches of the imagination, serious gameplay philosophy changes are another issue...

[Steppe Merc]

Alex, I think I agree with you. I'd actually prefer them to be a thing like camels, rather than pressing a special button, but it's ludicrous to think a war cry would do anything execpt affect moral.

[CBR]

No not really. Giving people higher morale means more brave and more fearless in a charge. I dont see it as a problem..actually I want the warcry to have higher audio effect instead of that weak taunting heh


CBR

[Thoros of Myr]

If it's that simple what's to stop the romans or anyone else from doing it? Why don't they have the warcry ability? After all, a glorious light comes out of the heavens and raises your attacking power...pity the romans didnt know about that.

[CBR]

Its part of the culture. The typical way of looking at "barbarians" is that they focused on individual combat.

Another way of looking at it would be the typical warband where lots of familiy members are fighting together. The unit might not have much training or discipline but people will do their outmost not to lose face in front of family members and neighbours. Getting hyped up for the ferocious charge is part of that warcry.

The mentality is different in a trained and disciplined unit. There order and teamwork is important and soldiers were punished if they left the unit to fight a duel.


CBR

[Lord of the Isles]

I can just imagine the screeching women's special ability...

"Are you still playing that stupid game?! Don't you know what time it is?!!"

Nagging. -5 Morale to any man within earshot.

[Red Harvest]

It seems like it works best when you do it just before a charge and at close range. You can do it periodically during melee, but you seem to take casualties while you do (without inflicting any), but then you get a short term boost that inflicts casualties on the enemy quickly. Timed right you can do serious damage, but it is a double edged thing and can backfire.

The swordsmen appear to be reasonaly matched against the Romans, although the barbarian spear warband are badly outclassed. This makes some sense and so does the war cry effect. The Romans had trouble with getting defeated by well led "barbarians" whipped into a frenzy. The uniform discipline and nature of Roman units, and the flexibility it provided were assets. However, while disciplined and organized, they were not the most fearsome or powerful as individual units.

[ShadesPanther]

There are two reasons why the warcry is OK in my book.

The celts are about 6ft tall and spiked their hair to make them seem taller. Whereas Mr. Roman was bout 5ft tall (Ceaser was 6ft and they were amazed at how tall he was.)

or.

The Celts fought naked

[Red Harvest]

If it's that simple what's to stop the romans or anyone else from doing it? Why don't they have the warcry ability? After all, a glorious light comes out of the heavens and raises your attacking power...pity the romans didnt know about that.

Gee, I dunno. What stopped the Union troops from adopting the "Rebel Yell?" That one is very well known and was definetely real. The Federals sure found it intimidating but never could really match it (yet they spoke the same language, had the same religion, and shared many ties although the "average" rebel soldier was more rural, etc.) "Spontaneous" rousing vocalization and banging can work a group up. Why? I don't know, gets your adrenaline going? It is cultural, and it is psychological, like psyching yourself up to lift something heavy. The Romans had a more scientific approach and were professional career soldiers. (I've seen their soldiers described as "engineers trained as infantry" since they did so much construction.) There was some innate fear of the "barbarians" as well and this contributed to it.

Haven't you ever had a game, or fight as a kid/teen/adult where you or your team worked yourself into a frenzy and truly intimidated an otherwise equal or superior foe? I could give numerous examples of this in my own experiences. It is almost surreal at times, but is effective when done with conviction (it is counterproductive and demoralizing to "fake it.")

[CBR]

And its not really "..a glorious light comes out of the heavens and raises your attacking power...pity the romans didnt know about that" but that each soldier fights with all he has.

Most humans would be afraid and perhaps focus more on defending than killing and stay back at a more safe distance. If all soldiers turned into mindless robots you would have some great killing machines but most humans are not like that. The Warcry ability for certain cultures in RTW simulates how some soldiers can go above the average, at least for a few seconds.


CBR

[Steppe Merc]

CBR, I meant that Warcry shouldn't make them super uber fighters or something, just give them a moral boost, and make the Romans scared. I don't want it to triple the charge or something like that.

[Thoros of Myr]

Yes, that's it, psychological. It prepares the mind for the task at hand. Something every soldier brave enough to stand and fight does in thier own way. For every barbarian with reckless bravery there can be an opposing soldier not effected by intimidation. It's not some set in stone benefit...if we cry we are always going to be superior.

To turn that into some tangible thing that can always be summoned at the touch of a button without fail is fantasy.

[CBR]

Yes and as I described above I dont see a problem if they have increased attack or charge because of such a special ability.

I guess it could be handled in different ways.. But at least a few of the miniature rulesets I have do give warbands extra combat power for the first combat round/phase. So CA are not the only ones

IIRC its been described how they made ferocious charges but, after they lost the momentum of the initial charge, they could lose heart and rout/retreat quickly.

Of course some of it might be the Roman stereotype of the typical barbarian but the Warcry sounds as a nice way of simulating it.


CBR

[Red Harvest]

Yes, that's it, psychological. It prepares the mind for the task at hand. Something every soldier brave enough to stand and fight does in thier own way. For every barbarian with reckless bravery there can be an opposing soldier not effected by intimidation. It's not some set in stone benefit...if we cry we are always going to be superior.

To turn that into some tangible thing that can always be summoned at the touch of a button without fail is fantasy.

Every one about to go into hand-to-hand combat with potential for serious injury is afraid. Place yourself in the ranks of a Roman foot soldier. You have good training, confidence in the power of your armies and fellow soldiers. You march off to put down some warlord in a foreign land expecting it to be another walkover. You are used to inferior forces fleeing in fear of your military might, sometimes without even making contact. You've cracked a few heads and have tasted combat. Yet, this time you look across and see your foes yelling in unison with some otherworldly sound in a tongue you don't even understand, and appearing rather rabid in their desire to disembowel you. Don't they know you are their better? Why aren't they afraid? (They are...you just can't see it.) They might even be half a head taller than you and painted up like some sort of demon. Crazy friggin' barbarians, you've heard stories about what they do to stragglers they capture. This might not be so easy after all. And then before you have time to settle your thoughts they come charging and screaming toward you.

So what has happened? Their display has taken you out of your element. You aren't going to run (you are well trained, and no coward), but you are not so sure of your superiority as you were a just a few seconds before. You might move with a little less assurance, or be a bit hesitant, or worst of all show a bit of fear on your countenance. Would this work for the Romans? Probably not. They are already impressive for their fine equipment, discipline, precision and reputation as conquerors.

In the game it will all depend on how this "special ability" is implemented. Hitting the button is the equivalent of the captain yelling to his men, "let 'em hear it, and then we are going to charge straight into their ranks and cut the puny runts down and take everything they have of value from their pathetic corpses."

I wouldn't mind hearing more from CA on how it is meant to work. I'm not sure why it is available once the unit is already in melee. It should probably also not be allowed if your morale is too low or you are too fatigued. From using it, I can tell it can really improve the initial shock combat of a charge although sometimes it falls flat (countercharging is useful in this game.) It doesn't make super men though...and they are not moving twice as fast.

I think they need to make the sound a bit louder and wild if they can. And banging on the shields could make more of a din. If you have the camera over the opposing Roman unit issuing orders you should want to look up to see if the barbarians are already on top of you.

[Papewaio]

How easy is it going to be to click on each of the warcries as they are about to hit the opposition... particularly when you include separate flanking attacks?

[Sjakihata]

easy I guess, press F

[andrewt]

Put more skillpoints into bears to increase the damage on the wardogs.

Kidding aside, that's what I don't like about the direction this game is going in. Instead of focusing on manuevering, you're now focusing on using special abilities. The game resembles a Warcraft3 clickfest more and more. If they're going to include Warcry in the game, it should be an automatic bonus or something instead of something that players have to trigger on their own. Either that or have it do nothing but make a loud noise, just to increase the morale of the player and get him pumped up. This game is catering more and more to the 300/clicks per minute RTS crowd. It's now how fast your fingers are, how good you're hand/eye coordination and spatial perception are, etc. rather than careful consideration and strategy.

[Alrowan]

give me a loud warcry that instills fear, not stinking dogs....


anyway, fi u want some history, the celts were renown throught the ancient world for thier mastery in head ot head engaments in battle, they were simply the best... that is until cesar and the marion reforms and all that, i just cant understand why they are so piss weak in the demo... mroe warcry if u ask me :p

[Steppe Merc]

Don't you know Alrowan that all non romans couldn't fight at all and used clubs? And that they had scottish accents?
Serriously, this game has such an anti non Roman slant, that I'm not suprised that there so weak. But don't worry, they can win. And they will burn Rome to the ground!