Citadel: Total War- The Rennaissance

[Silver Rusher]

1. We may possibly make new ones, such as the Kremlin in Moscow, or the Vatican Palace in Rome.

2.We'll keep the navies, they are essential to the period. Maybe speed them up a little though.

[Celtic_Winter]

for historical battles:
Woudln't it be a good idea to add Grundwald? That seems like a pretty historical battle that had a major inpact in Europe. And for wonders of the world, the florentine chapel woudln't be bad.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

Thanks for the suggestions I will look at them all!

[Silver Rusher]

for historical battles:
Woudln't it be a good idea to add Grundwald? That seems like a pretty historical battle that had a major inpact in Europe. And for wonders of the world, the florentine chapel woudln't be bad.

Wasn't Grunwald exactly the same battle as Tannenburg, just under a different name?

[Celtic_Winter]

Wasn't Grunwald exactly the same battle as Tannenburg, just under a different name?

Apparently it is, I just knew the battle as Grundwald. My mistake.
I found some useful links for it:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/matthaywo...Tannenberg.htm

http://www.deremilitari.org/RESOURCE...ES/dlugosz.htm

http://www.geocities.com/zalgiris_1410/

http://grognard.com/zines/ph/p0304.html

[Silver Rusher]

Thanks! These are quite handy.

[Uesugi Kenshin]

OK thanks!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I have researched about half of the battles, and they look quite good, before I was mainly finding battles involving Turkey but now we have more variety, thanks!


SilverRusher please edit your progress post so that historical battles has a sub area for research, I have probably gotten about a quarter of the research done or more, I just need to find tiume to learn how the .txt files work exactly. Tell me if you need anything researched!

[Celtic_Winter]

How about the loading screen?
what are we going to do with that?
I think it would be a good idea if we have paintings from the reinesance, of knights,religion,etc?

[Suleimen the Magnificent]

I just had a thought. How will we handle the Military Revolution? Will it be a Marius-type event?

Also can building require an event? I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have trace italienne-type fortifications only after the military revolution.

And one third point. Can town layouts and walls be modified? Because that's what we need.

Oh one thing forgot! Can it be made so that the troops on board ships up the fighting power of those ships? I don't know about the Atlantic but in the Med large numbers of land troops were usually embarked for battle.

[Celtic_Winter]

I just had a thought. How will we handle the Military Revolution? Will it be a Marius-type event?

Also can building require an event? I was thinking wouldn't it be good to have trace italienne-type fortifications only after the military revolution.

And one third point. Can town layouts and walls be modified? Because that's what we need.

Oh one thing forgot! Can it be made so that the troops on board ships up the fighting power of those ships? I don't know about the Atlantic but in the Med large numbers of land troops were usually embarked for battle.

that's a good thought you got there. I know at major sea battles, Like Lepanto, the Venetians had a lot of embarked troops.
As far as the building goes, the Roman buildings somewhat fit mediterenean buildings of the reinesance(somewhat..with Spain,Italy,Greece,etc) just a few modifications would have to be made to make a church,modern barracks,stables,etc.

[Silver Rusher]

About the Military Revolution: This event would be hard to handle. Marian Reforms would be good, but it would have to be the Crusaders who built the citadel keep. I'm also not sure if it effects anybody other than the Crusaders, because if it did we would have a problem.

Anyway, I think that the best idea for the loading screens (as this is the renaissance mod) is to have paintings from the renaissance in there.

Another thing I'm thinking now is that instead of the wierd little boxes you get after every turn we could have 'letters' instead, so say every time you click on a box you are opening an envelope, and the message is in the format of a letter. I want to see what everybody thinks about this before it goes through (and yes, it will be possible trust me)

EDIT: And fighting from ships... I'm pretty sure that's already a feature of RTW, and if it isn't then I don't think it will be possible to incorperate.

[Yggdrasill]

I just stumbled onto this yesterday.

The Renaissance is the perfect time to base a RTW mod because of the incredible blend of the old and the new.

I hereby offer my humble services for this noble cause. (yes I know there's a special thread for that but it doesn't seem active)

Unfortunately, I can't do much of the really difficult stuff (skinning&graphics). I may be able to change parameters for units, buildings etc. I've done that a lot for MTW, however RTW seem a bit more complicated in that respect. If there is a guide for modding these things, you could point me to it, so I'd make the effort and learn it.

In the meantime, I can do a lot of reaserch, testing, ideas and such. I'm quite familiar with the period and have a very useful collection of resources at home. Also, I'm willing to do whatever digging is necessary, at the library, internet. In short i can do the following:

1. Historical battles - don't waste another minute thinkig about that. If this mod is ever finished, I can whip up up to ten battles of the period, both famous and some less so, various factions, in a day. It is too early to be thinking about this, but trust me, it's no problem.

2. Units - for the Italian city states, Ottomans, Moors, Mamluks, 100%, all the units. I have both the info and a huge sellection of pictoral sources, I just have to find somebody with a scanner and sent it to whoever will be doing the skinning.
Hungary, Hre, France, England, Russia - up to 50% , various region specific units from Scotland, Ireland, England, Balkans... Info and pictoral sources as well. Point me to however is compiling the selection of units and we'll have it done in no time

Artillery units for all factions

3. Music - I have a Carmina Burana in mp3 format (Excalibur soundtrack). Fits perfecty in the period. I can upload it in a couple of days if you think it would be useful. I think it would fit perfectly for battles.

4. Advice on some structures

5. Can write ingame texts for most of the units (if I'm familiar with them), info for various factions, compile a list of Renaisssance miracles of the world to replace the existing ones, compile a list of new inventions that appear from time to time at the begining of a turn (like the Archimedean screw).

Maybe something else as well.

[Yggdrasill]

For now, I need some info.
First what is the exact timeframe?

What is the list of factions? Which ones are playable? I could have some input on the sublect (notably Mamluks as the playable faction are a must, Moors and Burgundy, both very important, Byzantines can be a rebel faction, they really were as good as 'dead' by late 14th century, virtually no territories to speak of )

Who is in charge of unit selection?

Several graphics quirks you guys will need to look into:

1. SADLES - ancient nations didn't use sadles as we know them, and so they don't exist in RTW.
For the mod you will have to make two distinct types of sadles - one a light one for light cav, and the other a large and heavy one, with raised sides, maybe even covered in plate (used for protecting the groin, and the family jewels wouldn't do to have those damaged would it now, what would the ladies say ). I have pics if you need em. Of the sadles, not the jewels

2. How do you plan to skin the crossbows and guns? The movement of the soldiers firing these weapons resembles nothing from RTW! They have to bring up the stock, rest it on the shoulder, fire (muzzle flash and smoke - problem?), then set it on the ground and reload! Is it possible to animate different movement for specific units (I know nothing of 3d graphics and animation)? If not, we're in troble as this is too important to be overlooked!

3. Also important, less so but still... Lance armed cav in RTW uses a low stabing motion when attacking. This is because there were no stirrups then. However, heavy cav in the Ren. period uses a couched lance, and a wholly differnet posture of the upper body. Will it be possible to program that? Oh and the stirrups as well?

4. What about new walls - thick, low, filled with earth, bastions and ravelins. Very important for sieges, will it be possible to model this? there might be a problem with fitting these massive structues onto the miniscule maps we have in RTW.

[Yggdrasill]

Here's a taste of the pics i have available.

These are online follow the link, there are several periods available, choose Renaissance (obviously)

I have many, many more at home. I just have to scan em and upload, not much of a problem.

Check out the Ottoman sipahi 1520 and the Sipahi from the battle of Sisak 1593 (one of the battles I plan to create).

Also a huge selection of Hussar and other light cav, region specific for the Balkans...

There is a really good pic of a Ottoman sipahi from the siege of Viena 1683 in the Pike&Shot period. It's a bit late I know but if you look at the pic you'll see that the equipment is virtually unchanged for 150 years. Also a great resource for skinning.

http://public.carnet.hr/husar/

Sorry couldn't figure out how to post links. Just type this in your explorer and drop me a note if it worked

[Silver Rusher]

Whoa! Lots of stuff to deal with here, Yggdrasill.

The first post you made:

You seem very enthusiastic. If you wish to work on the units or any scripting, then just say so. Research is also fairly important. Scripting RTW isn't really much harder than MTW once you really figure it out, and finding particular files is the biggest problem people generally have. Delve into the RTW destination and explore for a while, and you should find some stuff.

1. Historical Battles; If you can script the battles, great. I think Uesugi Kenshin is researching the battles right now, you could help him if you want.

2. If you want to just post any unit info or pics or anything you have, please do so. Artillery is fine as well.

3. We do need new music (I was quite frankly disappointed with RTW's music after playing MTW). If you could find any at all, pm me or post with a link to the upload site.

4. Advice on structures is not all that important, unless you can come up with 7 wonders (important wonders I mean) to replace the ones currently.

5. Scripting is probably what I mostly need you to do, unless there is any slight chance you can do graphics.

Your second post:

1. There is a list of factions on page 1. The moors have recently come up. The faction list does of course need editing. The starting period is 1402.

2. Celtic Winter is in charge of units, and the thread is here; https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39947

3. Graphical Stuff;

i: Saddles are no problem. We can now edit the models of units, and so we can also put other stuff like saddles on.

ii: As I said, guns and crossbows can easily be given to a man now that the models can be edited.

iii: Yes, it will be possible, but we will have to edit the animations and that is currently very difficult to do.

iv: The problem I see here, as I have already explained is a couple of things. a) There were many castles left over built out of stone from medieval times. b) I think that this is also a little ahead of it's time; maybe the later walls can have these features to them.

The link you posted is fantastic. It really does give modellers something to work from. Thanks!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

I will make a thread for Historical Battles so that we do not intrude if you want to help me I would be happy to have some help, if I get more research done tonight I will give you info on what battles I am looking at, some are not from the time period but they are within a hundred years so we will have the necessary units.

[Yggdrasill]

Wonders of the world

1. Alhambra - the famous palace in Granada, the splendour of its halls was such that the king and queen of Spain, after conquering this tiny last bastion os islamic art in western Europe, choose to base their court there for a while. In a time when Cristians regularly destroyed any visible signs of muslim scholarship and culture, that in itself is recognition enough

2. Kremlin in Moscow - it looks impressive even today, not to mention the 16th century

3. The cathedral of St. Paul in Rome

4. AjaSofia in Istambul

I'll try to think of a few others in a few days time (not necessarily only 7) so you can make the final choice. Anybody else is free to make suggestions as well. Once you decide which one will make the final cut, I'll start digging for some pictures and more info.

Question:

Do the wonders have to be built prior to 1402 (so that they already exist when the mod starts) or during the time frame of the mod (and then pop up on the strategic map in for example in 1507)?

[eadingas]

I'd say the 7 wonders should be the 4 great cathedrals of medieval world: Cologne, Notre Dame, Westminster, St.Peter's (the pre-Michelangelo one); Hagia Sophia for the eastern Europe, and for muslims: Al-Aqsa and Alhambra. They were all ready by the beginning of this mod, IIRC... (not sure about Cologne, though)

As for the Marian Reforms - it should be bound to fall of Constantinople, I think, as it was in many ways the end of Middle Ages, and beginning of Renaissance, with scholars of Byzantium fleeing to western Europe. There is even a way to do that, if you give Imperial Palace the following requirements:
Imperial Palace requires hidden resource Byzantium and not factions { byzantium, }
(if you make a byzantine faction, that is).

[Silver Rusher]

Imperial Palace needs byzantium? Ambitious... and quite limiting. I suppose it could work though. If we did this it would really just mean though that Constantinople is the new "Rome" of the Citadel Mod, even though it is a rebel province.

I'm gonna make constantinople a really big town, very well guarded and with very good defences. I don't want to have the Turks just swooping in there on the first few turns.

[eadingas]

If you make it rebel then the line should end 'and not faction { slaves, }', of course.

[Silver Rusher]

Oh, and as for the wonders, I think there are a few suggestions I have to make as well.

1. The Basilica of St. Paul: I think I should combine this with the Vatican palace. The Vatican would be good as it was (and is) effectively the centre of the catholic church. Bonus could be that loyalty is increased throughout the empire.

2. Cathedrales: I think it best not to limit wonders to cathedrales. This would just make many aspects of the game repetitive. The Basilica is only there because it is being merged with the Vatican (the same way the Sphinx was merged with the Great Pyramid).

3. The Kremlin in Moscow: I like the idea of having this as a wonder. It could increase law throughout the kingdom, or increase defence (I'm not sure if that's possible though).

4. Alhambra Palace: Definately gotta be in. Just had so much to do with the time period, and if we give it a good bonus it really will keep the Castilians attacking the Moors.

5. Hagia Sofia: Not sure about the bonuses, but still a good idea. It just makes Constantinople even better! I know it's a cathedrale, but then again a Greek Orthodox Cathedrale, so it will be different.

And to answer your question Yggdrasill, I think that all wonders should have been built by 1402. You can't make a wonder just 'appear' out of nowhere in the middle of the game.

Maybe we shouldn't have bonuses at all for wonders.... I'll start a new thread on the topic.

[FEMTO]

The Factions:

Italians = Egypt

Hi there,

I am very excited to hear about the development of this mod. However, one thing I am worried about is that you have not included the Mamluk Empire (how can you not include them?). Since you have decided to have the game start in 1402, I think the Mamluks should be included too. You may argue that the Mamluks were pretty much finished in 1517 and became the subjects of the Ottomans. However, I would argue that as the game is starting in 1402 then we the player should determine the course of destiny for the faction we play with. I might, playing as the Mamluks not get crushed by the Ottomans and in fact defeat the Ottomans themselves. In addition, change the course of history. There has to be a little level of fantasy in the game, which is pretty much, what we are doing when we are attempting to conquer the whole of Europe. I think it would be a shame to just only include one Muslim faction. It would also allow for more different play styles as the Mamluks had different troops to the Ottomans, and there would also be good reason to then use the Arab type game models for the game. Oh please include another Muslim faction. In my opinion it would be an obvious choice to have the Mamluks = Egyptians rather than Italians = Egyptians. Oh please, please include the Mamluks. Anyway, this mod is sounding really cool and hopefully will end up really great, just add the Mamluks too. Please? I will cry my eyes out if you don’t. :(

[Silver Rusher]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna replace the byzantines.

Italians = Egyptians really doesn't mean anything. It really does not matter which faction the new thing is replacing the older version of, quite simply. Starting positions and everything are being completely revamped, don't worry.

[FEMTO]

Hmmm…I was just thinking, I like the sound of this mod and I would be interested to help you in some way. I know how to texture, pretty competently. However, I have never done retextures for any of the total war games. If there is a small tutorial on how to do such a thing, I can help out on some of the Mamluk units and other units, and I can also come up with a variety of names. However, I must stress that I am an extremely busy person doing other things, but if you want my help on this then I will devote what free time I get into helping you out. Tell me what you think? Also is there a tutorial on how to edit existing meshes without losing the animation information? If there is then I can also make completely new models for you. I have no animation experience, however, what I could do is to make brand new meshes, and if there is an animator in this group then I could always pass on the meshes to the animator. Tell me what you think!

[Uesugi Kenshin]

OI! Constantinople shall fall swiftly no matter what you do for the Grand Sultan Suleiman wishes it to be so! Once the Grand Turkish armies arrive the Hagia Sofia shall be the greatest mosque ever built by christian hands! Come Mamluks obtain your own faction so we may do glorious battle on the plains of the east, but in the end the Ottoman empire shall hold all of the lands on this great earth and we shall rule with justice and fairness over all the peoples of the world!


Good idea about the mamluks and Constantinople, by the way it is Suleiman and not Selim because I plan to take Constantinople before he is Sultan and possible before he is born....

[Silver Rusher]

FEMTO: That would be brilliant. We need a graphics guy on the team, would you mind doing artwork as well as skins?

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=39733

Google for 'discreet tutorials' on the web, and it should tell you a lot about modelling with 3ds max. Also, if you get the pack extractor (http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=43) you can look around in the UI folder for loads of different graphics stuff. There is also a whole bunch of textures in there.

This one is also a must if you want to edit RTW models in 3ds max. http://www.twcenter.net/downloads/db/?mod=141

If you look around here (https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=77) you will find loads of very helpful modding instructions.

[Templar Knight]

wow, this mod sound excellent!

let me know if you need any help with the history side of things

[Silver Rusher]

If you want to help out with history, please feel free to post in any of the research thread.

[Silver Rusher]

I've done some faction emblems, check page 1.