dissapointed with the Demo somewhat

[barocca]

My thoughts on the Demo.

Navigating around the field is confusing and disorientating, hopefully that will become easier as my familiarity withe the game increases, but the number of times i find myslef "lost" is disconcerting.

i am most annoyed with how hard it can be to fight in the trees unless you zoom in, zooming in costs you overall perspective.


i am also unhappy that battles move along just as fast (if not faster) than mtw, meaning once engaged it it impossible to manage anything,

i was looking forward to the possibility of scanning along the lines and checking what was going on across the field, as you can see in the televison shows based on the RTW engine,

it seems that for TV the game engine was "slowed down",
the "real thing" hurtles along,
no sooner have you commited a unit to the line than it is either victorious, requiring you to give it new orders, or it is beaten and fleeing the field, requiring you to "plug the hole",
except this is happening all acrooss the field and quite literally you dont have the time to be everywhere at once!
coupled with the apparent inability to make units NOT chase routers and i can see a rushers paradise becomming a reality, With people taking a limited number of the fastest and toughest units and online battles lasting a few minutes only at most.

I feel i may have to downgrade my computer in order to slow the game down!!!


I am also unhappy with routing units trying to flee through the units they were just fighting, all of them running for one of a select number of exit points!!
A smart player will quickly identify the "exit points" and position units to annihilate routers, thus eliminate the possibility of them rallying.

I am also confused why a unit that is persuing routers will suddenly rout itself!

I have also attempted to select all and get all my units to attack one target, they do not?? the entire army just stands there with blank looks on their faces !!!

I cannot stress this enough :: I truly hope that the speed of the full game can be adjusted,
right now it is TOOOOO fast on my system (p4 3Gig 512MB, 256Mb video)
Trebia? over and done with in under 5 minutes!

B.

[King Azzole]

I think the "not getting the overall picture" in the woods is meant to be that way and i like it, cause its confusing to conduct battles in forests...

[Satyr]

Having played the demo for quite a while now and having sampled some of the mods I have a few issues that are driving me nuts too.

The use of the right mouse button . I am not skilled at double-clicking with my third finger. I don't ever expect to be either. This means I am hitting CTRL-R many more times that I used to need to in MTW. I sort of understand this as it makes dropping units on top of eachother easier but there was the ALT key to alleviate this problem.

Grouping units makes them unusable. You can't paint them into place and to some degree you can't give them orders. Is there a way around this?

When I double click on a unit in the troop window MTW would scan across to that unit and RTW does the same thing. But in Rome if you move the mouse the slightest bit you stop moving toward that unit and are looking at some meaningless spot on the map. In MTW you would just be dropped there. I hate the new way, it takes too long to wait for the scroll to get there.

[Colovion]

Grouping units does create a bit of a problem because they won't stay in formation when you send them to slowly advance against the enemy - they become a mass of jumbled units with the loss of "ALT CLICK" that was so awesome for MTW.

[Basileus]

First time i played the demo today and i agree with alot of what Barocca writes, gonna play a little more and see how things go.

[TexRoadkill]

You can drag them into a line using the right click. Just make sure they are grouped and you have to put them into a Single Line group formation by hitting Shift 1. I wish they would make that the default group formation.

I REALLY miss being able to Alt or Ctrl click to change/maintain facing. If they decided to scrap those commands it will really make things harder.

[Puzz3D]

The battles are going to be massive chaos. Over at .com when I said the higher speed had reduced the ability to coordinate units, I was told I'd just have to increase my multitasking ability. You're going to have to increase your speed of managing the units by a factor of 2 to recapture the level of control you have in MTW. As far as I can tell you've also lost the ability to rotate units. Have fun redrawing the units when you want to change their orientation.

[Elmo]

The battles are going to be massive chaos. Over at .com when I said the higher speed had reduced the ability to coordinate units, I was told I'd just have to increase my multitasking ability. You're going to have to increase your speed of managing the units by a factor of 2 to recapture the level of control you have in MTW. As far as I can tell you've also lost the ability to rotate units. Have fun redrawing the units when you want to change their orientation.

This game is sounding more and more like and RTS clickfest. Very disappointing.

[Lord of the Isles]

I agree with the general tenor of this thread; however..

Changing the facing/rotation of a group is possible, using the "," and "." keys. One rotates a formation clockwise, the other anticlockwise. I have been unable to reproduce the wonderful "move to a new position and resume current facing" command from MTW though, which is a major pain.

I've had mixed success moving groups (either sub groups or my whole army as one group). Sometimes they seem to move to a new position in formation, then randomly decide to wander around.

Another problem is that after using the rotate facing commands sometimes units in a line don't reform in the line: one unit moves so that it overlaps another, leaving a gap on the other side. A thought occured to me today however: perhaps some of the demos suffer from hidden scripting? I'm using descr_??.txt files (or whatever they are called) which don't have scripts in them but perhaps other, as yet unknown, files are affecting unit movement.

Maybe that's a long shot but I'm desperate to give CA the benefit of the doubt. It's hard to believe they can take such great games as S:TW and M:TW, improve on them as I'm sure they have done in 3D graphics and the campaign map and yet mutilate the control interface for battles.

*sacrifices tarred pig to gaming gods*

I've had some good battles with the modded demo. Fun even, some of them. I've confidence that the battles-on-speed problem can be modded, as can the silly fantasy units, but the control interface is the one thing that still worries me.

[barocca]

The battles are going to be massive chaos. Over at .com when I said the higher speed had reduced the ability to coordinate units, I was told I'd just have to increase my multitasking ability. You're going to have to increase your speed of managing the units by a factor of 2 to recapture the level of control you have in MTW. As far as I can tell you've also lost the ability to rotate units. Have fun redrawing the units when you want to change their orientation.

Who said that? (descriptive terms of reference to the sayers mental capacity and his alleged resemblance to a garishly painted circus performer removed)
I am already at my limit of mouse clicking speed with MTW, now they say i have to be able to increase my speed?

I will buy RTW, but if it remains "battles on speed" then i will rapidly lose interest,
i dont want an acrade style gaming experience, (RTS click fest)
i want to be able to play the game, and that means play the battles as well.

If i cant play the battles then there is no point playing the game,
in which case why would i bother making mods for it.
B.

[Nelson]

I have been unable to reproduce the wonderful "move to a new position and resume current facing" command from MTW though, which is a major pain.

ALT-right click will move a unit and preserve it's facing.

[Lonewarrior]

I think the "not getting the overall picture" in the woods is meant to be that way and i like it, cause its confusing to conduct battles in forests...

Yep, in MTW if you're fighting on a big forest is kinda hard to see anything. The new fighting in a forest system seems pretty awsome to me.

[Devastatin Dave]

I have f$%^ing athritis now just playing the demo. I will buy the game, but I have a bad feeling that it is nothing more than a click fest where your only means of victory will be a massive superior army against the AI, that can survive multiple ignored mistakes or attacks from said AI army.

[Dead Moroz]

I think we need Demo version 2.

[Sjakihata]

[ah_dut]

agreed master dead moroz

[barocca]

in general most of the items i mentioned are likely to be adjusted in the final release (well hopefully)
and navigating is something we will likely get used to,

but the game speed - too fast,
you dont have a hope in hades of managing your army once engagement starts.


All i can hope for is CA put in some method of adjusting the speed.

If they dont i will begin experiemting with some old fashioned CPU slowdown programs and see if i can come up with a solution once the game is out.

OF COURSE natural lag in online play may solve that problem for us,
it is entirely possible the game is designed to run as fast as possible to negate (as much as possible) the effects of online lag.
just someone forgot about the campaign players?

am going to post this particular comment on dot com (speed too fast),
I have got my flame retardent suit on,
will post the most interesting flames back here for your enjoyment
B.

[Puzz3D]

barocca,

The players who liked the battles in STW or MTW just entered the minority with regard to RTW. If you post at .com that the increased speed of RTW is detrimental to the gameplay, you will be called names and told to shut up. The majority of the posters at .com like the speed in the RTW demo, and don't want battles to take longer than 15 minutes. They come from the world of games like StarCraft, WarCraft and C&C. It appears that Creative Assembly made the right gameplay decisions to appeal to their target market. For all we know, the game has been adjusted to play best in arcade mode with no fatigue, no morale and unlimited ammo.

[King Edward]

I think there is a very overly critical view of the demo on these boards, although i do agree with many of the comments made, at the end of the day it is still just the demo and a tiny fraction of wht the full release will be so I wont be getting to hot under the collar until I have played the finished game.

Having said that, I totaly agree on the speed thing, it is difficult to control everything and also doesnt give you time to enjoy the fantastic graphics in full! as far as control and camera issues go, we will just have to adapt as we would playing any other new game.

[1dread1lahll]

Yuuki, I feel that the majority of the of people fall with-in two lines, the hard-core people like us you have played from STW and in Multi,... and the people who play only rather superfisial. Those people, (like many of the new people comming to multi from single) THINK they are 'hard-core' but lack the knowledge how to fully group and march their armies,...thus they have no clue what has been taken out of the game; you cant miss what you dont know exisited. The blistfully ignorant are blistfully happy with what they see, and dont miss, what they did not know existed.

[The_Emperor]

I disagree 1dread1lahll.

Many people do know how to control their armies in MTW. But your point does raise an interesting question. Were there too many commands in MTW? I have a couple of terrible memories of trying to left click and drag and my troops ended up spinning on the spot when I moved the mouse, rather than drawing a formation out.

Now I am no fan of the Right-clicking interface, but I do wonder how many commands really were neccessary in MTW.

As for the ALt-click method of army movement, I used that quite a bit and I do think this should be retained.

[Colovion]

I shudder to think that CA balanced the Gaulish Swordsmen and Warband with the warcry:

"These guys are kind of weak"

-"Yeah,... hey how about a warcry ability where they scream and shout and gives a bonus?"

"Yea that'll even it out"



elsewhere in the gaming world:

"OMG GUYZZ STIMPAKZ ARE R0x0Rzzz!!!11ONE"

[Oleander Ardens]

Well I observed without saying much the DEMO .com "discussions", as sometimes you could hardly call them in this way. Was almost funny like veteran STW and MTW players were almost instantly flamed, mostly by newcomers. The Mods cleared most of the mess up, thankfully, but the bad taste remains...

Both the style of posting and the game taste reminded me very strongly of Blizzard's forums and WIII - this is were this guys mostly come from. I'm glad the CA got more costumers, let's hope that the polite guys of the .com are able to absorbed them somehow and that the poor Mods are able to handle the flood..

Was almost laughing when some guy told Puzz3D to simply double his raction time - I hardly doubt that he had ever played MTW and tried to control 16 units at once...


To come back to the topic: I agree with most of your points, would be a good idea to post togheter a Summary in the com, like the one of Blodrast...

Cheers

OA

[Brutal DLX]

Well well, I will take a look at the demo tonight, if it's really that fast, I'll consider not upgrading my system then, which is actually a good thing, money-wise ~:p
I just hope it isn't that awkward to command units as Barocca said it was.... will post my thoughts later...

[Longshanks]

If you post at .com that the increased speed of RTW is detrimental to the gameplay, you will be called names and told to shut up. The majority of the posters at .com like the speed in the RTW demo, and don't want battles to take longer than 15 minutes. They come from the world of games like StarCraft, WarCraft and C&C.

Although there are some exceptions, the .com is overflowing with teen-aged imbeciles and raving fanboys (who incidentally, are usally not veteran STW or MTW players) who foam at the mouth even when constructive criticism is offered. The reaction you received isn't really suprising. Of course if you were flamed over there its just a sign that they couldn't counter any point that you made. When they can't debate your points, they launch into personal attacks out of desperation. It's a shame though that vets of the series have to put up with this nonsense from the newbies.

I couldn't agree more that the increased speed is detrimental to gameplay.

[Cloudkill]

I have f$%^ing athritis now just playing the demo. I will buy the game, but I have a bad feeling that it is nothing more than a click fest where your only means of victory will be a massive superior army against the AI, that can survive multiple ignored mistakes or attacks from said AI army.

A click-fest you say? I don't seem to remember doing any more clicking than i have in Shogun or Medeival...

[Lehesu]

A click-fest you say? I don't seem to remember doing any more clicking that i have in Shogun or Medeival...

I have been using pause a lot more than before. Sometimes to stave off excessive clicking.

[Cloudkill]

I'm not sure how one could be doing any more clicking... could you give me examples of things you have to click on more often that in the previous games?

[Jango Fett]

to create a simple formation requires more clicking now.. well thats what i found

[Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe]

And the .com topic is now closed.

More luck next time barocca.

Louis,