Arcade Mode

[Puzz3D]

I found out how to play the demo in arcade mode, and it's great! Fighting speed is no longer too fast, and you have lots of time to zoom in and watch the fighting or maneuver units. To turn on arcade mode edit preferences.txt, and set these three parameters to false:

MORALE:FALSE
FATIGUE:FALSE
LIMITED_AMMO:FALSE

[Tamur]

Cool! ... I think. You mean turning off Morale, Limited Ammo, and Fatigue makes the game run SLOWER?

[Puzz3D]

The units fight a lot longer, and you don't have all that chasing of routers over the red line. The elephants threw people all over, but eventually went amok and many elephants were killed. The Cartaginians still won the battle on medium difficulty. I think you could leave fatigue on and still get the longer fighting. You could also leave limited ammo on. It's morale and routing that is causing the quick resolution in the fighting.

I didn't try increasing the command rating on the generals, but you might get the same effect that way except if the general dies you will loose. I did try playing with the melee units boosted to experience 8 in a mod with larger units which does raise morale, but it didn't seem to raise it enough to lengthen the fighting enough for me. A flank hit by cav would still send a unit packing, and then all the other units would tend to rout very easily. If you want it to be over when the first unit routs, then leave morale on.

Turning off morale does reduce the effectiveness of flanking since you can't trigger the rout, but it introduces the tactic of using reserves to counterflank or plug holes in the line.

[Aelwyn]

So you think it needs a +2 morale or something similar like for VI?

[Orda Khan]

Did you try it with just morale turned off? It sounds interesting, I don't think the battle as it is lasts long enough for fatigue to be much of an issue.
I'll give this a try because, to be honest, I don't think you have time as it is to appreciate the battle

.....Orda

[Puzz3D]

I don't know what it needs, but, if you don't like the out of control feeling of the demo and quick battle resolution, you can get a lot of control back by turning off the morale feature. With morale off, the player who keeps units in reserve will have an advantage over players who commit everything at once because you can fix his units with fewer units, and then use your reserve to go around and come in from behind. The battleline will be stable for a longer time which will allow you to control quite a few reserve units. Units that attack from behind and from the side get a combat advantage in STW and MTW, and I expect that's still in the battle engine. As in MTW at high florins, the gameplay will shift from one of establishing a quick local superiority to one of outmaneuvering the opponent with reserves after the main battlelines meet.

I was actually being sarcastic when I said arcade mode was great because I thought the game was supposed to play better with all the features turned on, but the fighting was more intense and you do have more time to look around and issue orders. I think it would be unfortunate if turning morale off made RTW play better because morale is one of the main features of the engine, but I'm not going cling to the old style gameplay if it doesn't play well. If it has to go to get a playable game in multiplayer, it has to go. I remember the guys who got to try the beta saying the battles were more exciting and tense in arcade mode.

As far as VI goes, it didn't need +2 morale. There were only certain units that needed +2 morale such as spears. However, what we got was a blanket +2 morale, and most players responded to that by lower the standard florins from 15k to 10k to erase the +2 morale.

[Aelwyn]

As far as VI goes, it didn't need +2 morale. There were only certain units that needed +2 morale such as spears. However, what we got was a blanket +2 morale, and most players responded to that by lower the standard florins from 15k to 10k to erase the +2 morale.

Yeah was just a comparison.

I agree, if turning off morale helps, then fine. I assume its just a boost as before, not completely an absence of morale. We don't want men fighting to the last man, just standing up to fight until they are truely beaten. Routing on impact...or few seconds after...is one of those annoying things that needs to go away.

I wondered if we just weren't keeping our flanks/rears protected and close together, but this wasn't the case when I set up a formation against that large rock formation to the left of the hill. I protected one flank with the rock barrier, and protected the other flank (of a front wall of Poeini Inf) with the merc infantry. They did hold better this way, which was good. But there was still a problem imo.

So its either the morale for these units isn't high enough, or the combat bonuses are too high. Lets hope its not the second one, Kocmoc would have a fit over it.

[Puzz3D]

The Trebia battle in arcade mode, medium difficulty gave:

Hannibal: 800 deployed, 1490 kills, 295 men remaining
Sempronious: 1543 deployed, 623 kills, 261 men remaining

So, morale isn't completley turned off, but it is boosted quite a lot. BTW, the kills and men remaining don't add up.

[CBR]

Guess its like "morale off" in MTW then: just a big morale boost of +12 or something.

Why it doesnt add up is because some of the killed men are only wounded I think.


CBR

[Colovion]

gah, morale off? hmmm I dont' like the sounds of that - perhaps in the real game we'll just have to mod in more standard morale for all units...

[Papewaio]

Hmmm so we have been moaning about the more realistic mode and actually we the 'veterans' emotional requirements was for the less realistic arcade mode.

Oh the irony!

---------

CA Programmers 1000
Org Gahs! 13

Papewaio the Jester now has moonbeam vice... not that anyone can tell the difference.

[Puzz3D]

Papewaio,

The arcade mode is more realistic than realistic mode. Just go watch the opening of the movie Gladiator and you'll see.

[Papewaio]

Don't you just love all the Australian Action Heroes

[Husar]

I tried playing without morale today and I have to say it was very nice, no cowards anymore(for whom I never payed money in MTW anyway... ) and it was much more fun watching the battles go on, they fight to the very last man, even when they are surrounded. I will see if I play the full game with morale or not, but I normally tend to disband losers anyway (they get these bad vices, you know... ), but we don´t know what CA has tweaked since the Demo, so I will see when I have the full version.

[Nigel]

hmmm, TW with morale turned off sounds a bit like decaffinated coffee or non-alcoholic beer to me ....

In the previous titles, morale was the one thing that made it significanlty different from the other RTS games. I still hope the speedy and out-of-control feel is just an issue with this particular battle and will be better in the full version.

The arcade mode is more realistic than realistic mode. Just go watch the opening of the movie Gladiator and you'll see

ohh and Yuuki, I would be careful with irony or at least add a to it. Some folks might just take your word for it.

[Colovion]

Yeah I love moral - I remember thinking it was stupid when I first played it but it's what really happened so it makes sense to have it. Other combat games or RTS games have you control mindless soldiers that do your bidding - these ones are designed to have some kind of personality - it adds to the immersion I think.

[CBR]

ohh and Yuuki, I would be careful with irony or at least add a to it. Some folks might just take your word for it.

I think we can safely say that Yuuki has gone into a permanent stage of sarcasm and irony ever since the demo came out


CBR

[Colovion]

realism is for n00bs

common guys let's go on a mephisto run, then we can zergling rush the orcs with our new grandfather sword wielding Warbands

[Puzz3D]

Other combat games or RTS games have you control mindless soldiers that do your bidding - these ones are designed to have some kind of personality - it adds to the immersion I think.

The individual soldiers have about as much personality as a Star Wars' storm trooper. I'm glad to see that Creative Assembly could incorporate the feel of another great movie into RTW with the masses of lookalike men. And with the comic antics of elephants and flamepigs, ala c3po and r2d2, ala Laurel and Hardy, they've captured that element of the movie as well. I'm almost starting to think Quentin Tarentino had something to do with RTW as I slowly become aware of all the movie references packed into this remarkable game.

[Nigel]

Yuuki, Yuuki, *shakes head*
I fear CBR is quite right with his comment


But seriously, and back to the topic.
We had discussions about run-speed beeing to high.
Does your little experiment with arcade mode suggest that it is mainly killing-speed which is too high ?
Or is it just a compromise trick to make the game handle easier and allow room for tactics.

CA has put a lot of customising options in (green arrows, unit flags).
Perhaps the full version, or a patch, will allow a slider-bar for overall speed. I think that would work best.

[RTKLamorak]

I think we can safely say that Yuuki has gone into a permanent stage of sarcasm and irony ever since the demo came out

lol!!!

[Steppe Merc]

Sorry, I refuse to play with realism off. It may be more fun (supposedly), but no thanks. I'm stubborn like that.

[ShadesPanther]

I played it with morale turned off, It has a major flaw though. They fought to the very last man on both occasions even when I hadn't a pocket sealed they could easily of escaped when about 4 units added up to 5 men...

[Lord of the Isles]

The individual soldiers have about as much personality as a Star Wars' storm trooper. I'm glad to see that Creative Assembly could incorporate the feel of another great movie into RTW with the masses of lookalike men. And with the comic antics of elephants and flamepigs, ala c3po and r2d2, ala Laurel and Hardy, they've captured that element of the movie as well. I'm almost starting to think Quentin Tarentino had something to do with RTW as I slowly become aware of all the movie references packed into this remarkable game.

Now, now Puzz, try not to be so cynical (though I have some sympathy). The soldiers do have some personality, but only in the Campaign game. A unit that's been with you from the early game, or the one that routed the enemy centre in some key battle etc..

To get back to "Arcade mode", I agree it is an improvement. The pace of the battles is much better, allowing time to plan, execute and attempt regrouping manuevers. The fact that units fight till the last man isn't great but in one off battles I can live with it. That will affect campaigns a lot though, so I doubt it is a long term solution.

[Tamur]

Not sure why everyone has their units rout so quickly... if you use any of the mod-ing tools (MODROME, RoDeO, etc) and set the valour of the units up to two or more, they'll take quite a beating before they rout. Valour two Roman principes, for example, will take 40 losses, be under fire, and still be standing firm until the get charged in the flank/back.

Is no one else getting good battle sturdiness from medium-high valour units? Most of my six-unit-a-side battles last twenty minutes, unless I've given myself an unfair advantage.

Maybe the units know that, if they run out the back of the computer, my wife will make them eat their tomatos...

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Not sure why everyone has their units rout so quickly... if you use any of the mod-ing tools (MODROME, RoDeO, etc) and set the valour of the units up to two or more, they'll take quite a beating before they rout. Valour two Roman principes, for example, will take 40 losses, be under fire, and still be standing firm until the get charged in the flank/back.

Is no one else getting good battle sturdiness from medium-high valour units? Most of my six-unit-a-side battles last twenty minutes, unless I've given myself an unfair advantage.

Maybe it's just that the units know that, if they run out the back of the computer, my wife will make them eat their tomatos...

Just give a few (I used 5 120-man) Sacred Band infantry, put them at 2 valor and 1 armor. And just try to defeat them. I had loads of Romans (including 4 2-valor 60-man Triarii!!) and took several tries to beat them - even flanking them was fairly ineffective!!!

Now I need some phalanx units of my own. They rock.

[Puzz3D]

Lord of the Isles,

Yes the units fight too long with morale off. Seeing as CA has not provided an "inbetween setting" for morale, what are you going to do? In single player, I think you will learn what level commander you need so that morale isn't too fragile. In multiplayer, we will raise the money so we can slap a lot of valor on the units. I saw a screen shot of the beta which showed you could max out upgrades on all 20 units in a typical army with 99,999 denarii.

[Cloudkill]

Personally, I think arcade mode is a bunch of BS. Not that I go in for that elitist "RTS games are for n00bs, real strategy gamers play Total War, I'm proud to have never let a friend talk me into playing an RTS like Warcraft!" (what a crock of shit that kind of talk is) but what makes Total War so great is indeed that it truly accurately simulates real battles like no game ever has come close to doing! For that matter, I don't think the battles go too fast; they simply gave us (the Carthaginians) a massive experience/weapon&armor bonus because they want the player to win the demo battle (at least on medium difficulty).

[Tamur]

Just give a few (I used 5 120-man) Sacred Band infantry, put them at 2 valor and 1 armor. And just try to defeat them. I had loads of Romans (including 4 2-valor 60-man Triarii!!) and took several tries to beat them - even flanking them was fairly ineffective!!!

Now I need some phalanx units of my own. They rock.

They do rock... but try four 2-valour 1-armour Sacred Band phalanxes versus four 2-valour 1-weapon Cretan Archers. Concentrate fire on the general, flank and skirmish, and you can rout them with zero casualties. When I just tried that, I had to chop the General's unit down to seven men before he routed, and had to completely destroy another of the units. But when those two were gone, the other two routed with about 20 men in each.

It's the rock-paper-scissors thing, just that sword units don't work against phalanxes like they do against spears in MTW.

[Oaty]

Hmmmm maybe they will slip in another menu option

Wussies
El natural
Warmongors

Ok in a non jokingly way

Low morale
Normal morale
High morale

Well probably too late now for the final release, so we'll have to shell out a few bucks for a new patch........ ummm I mean expansion pack.

Well who knows maybe it is in the game since you can pick difficulty levels in for both the strategic map and the difficulty for the battle field maybe it is in there............. oh and by the way this option would be on page 103 of the options menu.