Hungarian Kings/Princes/Generals suck?

[Emren]

Hello there!

I am new to these forums, but not to TW, by any means...

Although the new demo is out, we can still play MTW, right? ~:p

So I decide to try out the Hungarian faction and I have a lot of fun fighting the Byzantines, but I notice one thing: My king/princes/generals never get more than 3 stars, usually only 1 or 2.

Anyone else has this experience?

Oh, and one forum question: Where's the damn search button???

Regards, Martin

[Maeda Toshiie]

@Emren

Welcome to the Org

The stars of your princes are affected by the rank of your king and his influence. Low influence usually means ranks lower than the king's. High influence usually means ranks similar or even higher than that of the king.

The search is disabled for the junior members I think.


*edit*
4 star generals are fixed entities. Each faction has a list of them, appearing at specific times.

[MonkeyMan]

Hi Emren welcome to the org :)

So far as I know most of the processes that govern your kings and generals are pretty much random apart from a few exceptions:

Princes will inherit their fathers general stats, give or take a point or so
Your starting king will always be the same
Some generals are specific hero units that come out of particular provinces at a particular time.
Other than that winning battles the old fashioned way is the best way to succeed, as well as chosing provincial governers wisely.

You'll never start off with generals as good as the Byzantines, but you should be able to get a good royal line and a stock of good generals within 50 years or so if you manage your empire correctly.

BTW I have the search option on the top grey bar, I've been out of the loop for a bit so i am unsure if all member levels get the option. Perhaps someone else can help.

[Ludens]

Welcome to the Org, Emren.

In regard to your second question: yes, there is a search function, but TosaInu disabled it for junior patrons because it brought the forum down on a regular basis. Also, the search function is as yet unable to track the topics of the old forum we abandoned a month ago.

Regarding your kings: princes tend to have about the same stats as the king has the turn before they mature (doesn't matter if the king is their father, uncle or brother). High influence kings get better heirs. However, there is a bug or feature whereby high command kings get zero star sons. Therefor some players recommend never getting your king above seven stars.
The starting influence of a king is faction dependend: Byzantine kings always start with great influence and therefor get great heirs. I haven't played with Hungary yet, but my guess is that they have a standard low influence and thus will get unimpressive heirs.

Getting fine heirs is an art in itself. There was beautiful post about this some time ago, but because of the search function-troubles I cannot find it. The essence is that figthing kings get better sons and are less likely to get nasty vices. So keep them in the field even if you have better generals available. This is also a great way to improve your influence. Heir improving is a low proces, but try for example the Viking campaign. You'll be amazed at how fast you can get a royal family of military geniusses.

[Emren]

Thanks for the replies, guys, much appreciated!

I think my woes stem form the fact that, in a single (albeit very major) battle vs. the Byzantines, I lost my king and two heirs before any of them had gained a single level! See, in all my early battles vs. the rebels, the rebels would retreat with no battle experience as a result. The only remaining heir was a young prince with a -1 command vice, so he was a level 2. Naturally, his son are unimpressive, to say the least!

Now, I am locked between the HRE, Poland, Egypt and the Pope (who has all of Italy). I dare not go to war with any of them at the moment, so I cannot gain experience that easily. But, if it's the only way...

[Maeda Toshiie]

Thanks for the replies, guys, much appreciated!

I think my woes stem form the fact that, in a single (albeit very major) battle vs. the Byzantines, I lost my king and two heirs before any of them had gained a single level! See, in all my early battles vs. the rebels, the rebels would retreat with no battle experience as a result. The only remaining heir was a young prince with a -1 command vice, so he was a level 2. Naturally, his son are unimpressive, to say the least!

Now, I am locked between the HRE, Poland, Egypt and the Pope (who has all of Italy). I dare not go to war with any of them at the moment, so I cannot gain experience that easily. But, if it's the only way...

Have VI? If you do train Szekelys. If not, HAs would do for the moment. Do your best to capture the C. It is usually my first eventual target when the campaign starts.

[Emren]

Yes, I am playing VI - otherwise I wouldn't be able to play the Hungarians, right?

So yes, I have trained Szekelys (and Avar Nobles).

Going for Constantinople means facing off with the Egyptians - and they have soooo many troops there!

I am in a tricky situation. None of my neighbors are particularly weak, so I think I'll just expand my trading for a while, and wait for an opening!

[mfberg]

You must go for Influence for your King. My third king of this Early campaign started with is age 21, great builder, steward, 6*, 7 acumen, his children are running 7-8 stars, 7-9 acumen and I have 5 boys in 4 years. When he dies in another 48 years I should have a 50 year old 7* King followed by a 17 or 18 year old King and 15 or so 9 acumen govs.
However to get to this point I had to send my princes off on attacks (small enough that the rebels wouldn't run) or suicide missions if they started out with a bad enough vices.
Farming princes is a good way to either get a great king, or lose the game because you have killed the last prince and your king shoots blanks the rest of his life.

mfberg

[Kaiser of Arabia]

Why does a kings stars matter if you have good GENERALS?
Or if you just play any battle your generals stars only effect the valor of your troops.

[Emren]

I have only had a single 2 star-general in this whole campaign. Most of them have zero stars, with a few ones amongst them.

Does the King affect the generals command rating also?

[Ludens]

Does the King affect the generals command rating also?

The command of the hero generals (which appear at set time, you can find a link to a good hero listing in Froggy's beginner's guide) is set. The Hungarians have only two heroes: Ja'nos Hunyadi, appears in the best unit built after 1402, and Vlad Tepes a.k.a. Vlad the Impaler (Dracula), appears in the best unit built after 1446.

However, if you have a high influence, high command king, nwely build units will occassionally get one, two or three stars command out-of-the-box.

[Emren]

Okay, thanks a lot, Ludens!

[Romaoi]

In the Early VI: As Hungary you should take Serbia. After taking it, raise taxes to very high and leave. (Don't build a border tower) It will rebel on the next turn, but with usually only a few units in the Rebel army. Send in your Crown Prince (Royal Knight) on the next turn and place him on a hill. Wait for the rebel units to approach, usually pesants or archers, place Crown Prince in wedge and charge downhill routing the rebels. Of course if the rebel army has more than two units, you will have to send in other units with your prince. If all goes well, your prince will get a star, and maybe some more valor also. It is best to build up your heir in this way and use his brothers to replenish his troops, until you can build more Royal Knights.
Then pull your armies out of Serbia and begin the process again. Gradually your prince will earn more stars and if he fights of the rebels at great odds, he will get a field defense specialist also.
Just remember, you have to watch those wily Byzantines though. When they get too strong, lower the taxes, build a border fort and place a garrison in Serbia or they will snatch it away from you. I have also done the same with Wallachia and Moldavia, but their revolutionary ardor peters out after a few cycles. The Serbians seem to rebel almost as often as the Portugese!

[Emren]

Gamey tactic if I ever saw one!

[Mayfield The Conqueror]

In the Early VI: As Hungary you should take Serbia. After taking it, raise taxes to very high and leave. (Don't build a border tower) It will rebel on the next turn, but with usually only a few units in the Rebel army. Send in your Crown Prince (Royal Knight) on the next turn and place him on a hill. Wait for the rebel units to approach, usually pesants or archers, place Crown Prince in wedge and charge downhill routing the rebels. Of course if the rebel army has more than two units, you will have to send in other units with your prince. If all goes well, your prince will get a star, and maybe some more valor also. It is best to build up your heir in this way and use his brothers to replenish his troops, until you can build more Royal Knights.
Then pull your armies out of Serbia and begin the process again. Gradually your prince will earn more stars and if he fights of the rebels at great odds, he will get a field defense specialist also.
Just remember, you have to watch those wily Byzantines though. When they get too strong, lower the taxes, build a border fort and place a garrison in Serbia or they will snatch it away from you. I have also done the same with Wallachia and Moldavia, but their revolutionary ardor peters out after a few cycles. The Serbians seem to rebel almost as often as the Portugese!

And they only have peasant revolts?? Peasants are easy it is the bandit and loyalists I am afraid of..

[katank]

if it was never owned by a faction before, no loyalist rebellions will occur.

leaving the province without garrisons will often produce 1 archer at most and are easy to handle.

provoking rebellions to train up generals and troops as well as getting cash is almost bordering on cheating that it's so effective.

I suggest throwing your entire Croatian garrison at Venice the first turn and the Italian doge will abandon it, giving you a free keep with shipyard and also an early victory.

Venice is also insanely rich esp. with trade. just marry off a princess to placate the Italians and grab the neutrals using HA tactics, gaining valor and victories routinely.

don't be afraid to use your king in battle. his BG unit regenerates by 5 men/turn and it's free so you can abuse it.

[Mayfield The Conqueror]

I suggest throwing your entire Croatian garrison at Venice the first turn and the Italian doge will abandon it, giving you a free keep with shipyard and also an early victory.

Venice is also insanely rich esp. with trade. just marry off a princess to placate the Italians and grab the neutrals using HA tactics, gaining valor and victories routinely.

don't be afraid to use your king in battle. his BG unit regenerates by 5 men/turn and it's free so you can abuse it.

All good points.. I let the HRE pick a fight with the Italians first, then once it began taking Venice was easy. Also then these is no chance for Italy to be continuing the fight as they had their hands full just defending Milan! :)

Also have taken up to Constantinope from the Byzantines and now it is around turn 1175 and I have just taken Austria and Bohemia from the HRE.. I am getting afraid of the polish as they have stacks of units poised at my northern border. I am thinking that I should smash them before the Horde comes around.

Any suggestions for withstanding the Horde with the Hungarians?? It seems like harassing them with horse archers would be useless since that is one of their strengths. I am thinking just tons of Seargents (with high morale and valor) with lines of Slav Jav's and lots of flanking with whatever calvary I have. I sure wish I could build some Bulgarian Brigands for some good foot archers.

[Ludens]

Against the Golden horde you will need lots of missile troops to deplete their horse archers (pavise arbalesters are best, but a few good quality archers won't hurt either), some light cavalry to finish the HA off (use fast ones like steppe cavalry or perhaps szekely; hobilars and sergeants are too slow), spear infantry to pin their heavy cavalry (use sergeants, preferable chivalric ones) and perhaps two units of heavy cavalry to destroy theirs.

If you like, you can replace the sergeants with polearm units, but polearms units are somewhat less good at recieving charges and for the killing I use heavy cavalry.

[Quietus]

Don't worry about the Generals' ranks. Just build the powerful Armored Spearmen. Help them out with Archers and a Szekely. Also, get access to Steppe Cavalry. Horsemen are good medium cavalry if I remember my campaign right.

Be careful with your King. Use them always as a flanker especially against non-spear units (needless to say on wedge formation right? upon impact bring them back to normal formation). Don't use your heir and King in the same battle too unless you have a good young heir and the older one is a liability and you are trying to eliminate.

Basically, even if you only have a 2 star general, keep using them (most especially if they are royal knights or a szekely). Use you get big enough. Just retire your king to constantinople. But don't move them around or else your provinces won't maintain equilibrium and rebel. Also, occupy all the sea lanes as fast as possible.

[Emren]

Good advice here in the last few threads. Maybe you guys should post these over in the Hungarian strategy tips section...

[Doug-Thompson]

Good advice here in the last few threads. Maybe you guys should post these over in the Hungarian strategy tips section...

I'm happy to report that we did. Attacking Venice right off the bat is vital, IMO.

1. Neither Crotia nor Serbia have any trade goods. Venice does, and can start up decent trade very early in the Adriatic with the Papal states. From there, it's short hops to Sicily and the Egyptian coast, with lots of rich trade.

2. If you can control eastern seas in the Mediterranean, Crusades will take your ships to their destinations, instead of marching through your empire and robbing you of troops.