What to do with AUM

[English assassin]

For the first time ever I've kept a game going long enough to actually get some SAP. Now I had always read here that these were some serious infantry.

This coincided with the big orange empire deciding to pick a fight with me. Whenever this has happened in the past I have always found AUM to be pretty much indestructable, but now, surely, I would be the master, right?

Wrong. Admittedly I was giving away three command stars to the Almo general (they seem to have about 200 6 star generals) but it was the same story as before. Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die. (Die they did, but not before wiping out an entire unit of pikes)

Whats going on here? Are they the best infantry unit or what? I am playing as the Russians so I don't even have much decent cav to run them down with though a boyar sandwich would probably give them pause for thought.

[ah_dut]

i think AUM are some of the most cost effective units out there for one

[Mount Suribachi]

AUMs are pretty much unbeatable in Early and even into High. Swabian Swordsmen are about the only unit that can beat them, and only the HRE has access to that unit.

[Tamur]

Forgive the ignorance, but I've been wondering for a month now what AUM is?

. Anti-Unit Machines
. Angry Urban Mohawks

edit: wait!!!!

Almohad Urban Militia?

duh, sorry.

[Maeda Toshiie]

For the first time ever I've kept a game going long enough to actually get some SAP. Now I had always read here that these were some serious infantry.

This coincided with the big orange empire deciding to pick a fight with me. Whenever this has happened in the past I have always found AUM to be pretty much indestructable, but now, surely, I would be the master, right?

Wrong. Admittedly I was giving away three command stars to the Almo general (they seem to have about 200 6 star generals) but it was the same story as before. Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die. (Die they did, but not before wiping out an entire unit of pikes)

Whats going on here? Are they the best infantry unit or what? I am playing as the Russians so I don't even have much decent cav to run them down with though a boyar sandwich would probably give them pause for thought.

No, vanilla AUMs are mostly harmless to SAP (note the two qualifiers, vanilla and mostly). Stats on AUMs from FBE's guide.

"Almohad urban militia.
Charge 3 Attack 3 Defence 3 Armour 4 Speed 6, 10, 11 Morale 2 Cost 200 Support cost 37

Almohad urban militia are very similar to the Catholic feudal men at arms. They have a shield and a sword, just like the men at arms and they have the same number of men in each unit (80). As far as use goes they should be used like men at arms; put them in two ranks and on engage at will before marching them at some spears or other infantry and letting them charge into battle. Almohad urban militia don’t really need to flank so you can use them to hold a good front line against infantry attacks. You should always endeavour to keep them far away from cavalry or they will die very quickly. If you have no choice but to fight cavalry with this unit put them in three or four ranks, try to find some trees to put the cavalry at a disadvantage and mob the cavalry with as many units as possible. This is an extremely solid unit and is a steal for its price. The militia’s shield only has a 0.5 modifer."

They are slightly weaker than CMAAs. However, valour and wep/arm upgrades would make it different case. Take a look at how many little flags the unit is flying. Chances are, they do have wep upgrades from the iberian provinces.

[Kommodus]

Like all swordsmen, AUM are only truly weak against cavalry. Remember, swordsmen easily defeat spearmen, and can also have some success against pikemen (although with equal valor/upgrades, SAP should still easily defeat any sword unit in the game). Differences in valor, weapons, and armor can upset this balance. As the Almohads, I fought the Swiss once, and noted that AUM can do alright against SAP, as long as I support them and use flanking attacks against the enemy.

Thus, use the best cavalry you have. Try polearms as well; as long as you don't let them get flanked or isolated, even halberdiers should do well against AUM. Reserve your pikemen for more worthy tasks, like destroying cavalry, and keep them away from armor-piercing missiles.

[English assassin]

Almohad urban militia are very similar to the Catholic feudal men at arms.

I've read this in a few places but speaking from my own experience its not really true, they are way, way better. I don't think I have EVER taken out AUM without sticking two units at least onto them. Sometimes more. I guess a lot of them come either with the v1 from Grenada or with weapon upgrades from elsewhere in spain. They don't exactly rout easily either.

maybe its the upgrades but they are better than CMAA IMHO

[Kommodus]

I've read this in a few places but speaking from my own experience its not really true, they are way, way better. I don't think I have EVER taken out AUM without sticking two units at least onto them. Sometimes more. I guess a lot of them come either with the v1 from Grenada or with weapon upgrades from elsewhere in spain. They don't exactly rout easily either.

maybe its the upgrades but they are better than CMAA IMHO

What happens when you send cavalry against them? Even boyars should do OK in single combat against them, although I've never tried this. I don't know if the Russians have anything heavier than boyars, but if they do, use it.

You should try playing as the Almohads; you'll quickly find out that AUM are not the elite killing machines they become when the AI uses them. They do have decent morale, and if you're playing on expert, the AI gets such a big morale bonus that their troops are super-tough to rout. When playing as the Almohads, though, you'll quickly find out that their army is not that strong; AUM are really their only strength. They are rather weak against cavalry (Nubians and Muwahids are not good spears), they have no good heavy cavalry of their own (Ghulam cavalry are quite fragile), and they have no elite killers like JHI, SAP, VG, or elite knights. They have no polearms and are weak against armor; the only effective anti-armor tactic I've found is to pin an armored unit with something while pelting it with javelins.

I'm guessing the only thing making them hard for you to beat is the valor bonuses they are getting from their generals. In an even fight, the Almohads are at a disadvantage.

[katank]

as Russians:

a) you got good generals to match them. russians start with a 5* or 6* king and each generation shoudl get better.

b) Druzhina are 60 men cav available with horse breeder and armorer.

dismount em and you get FFK which should match even v1 AUMs in melee but have 4 higher morale matching the expert level AI advantage in that area so they break at the same time.

c) heavy cav like boyars can definitely dominate them using arrows or charging

d) combination of arbalests and javs with some help from mtd. x-bows or HAs in hit and run should distract those AUMs and get them shot up. once they are tired and decimated, they are easy kills.

[ichi]

Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die.

Whats going on here?

AUMs are one of the best early era infantry units, and the high valor gens make them pretty tough.

With the Boyars you should be able to shoot the AUM up before engaging, run 'em around a little bit to wea them out.

I see people get SAP crazy and build / use too many SAP units in an army, both in MP and SP. In my armies SAPs replace the spears/Chiv Sarg/OFS but I rarely have more than 3 or 4 units of spears in any one stack.

The problem is that SAPs, like all spear units, have a relatively low att factor, so pinning and flanking with SAPs isn't nearly as effective as pinning with SAPs and flanking/charging into the rear with Boyars or Vikings or even better, Druzhina Cav.

ichi

[Marquis de Said]

Yeah, I've found AUM very annoying to fight against, especially if they all just rush your line of battle.
Like katank said, use a lot of arbalests and mounted archers/x-bows and finish them off with Boyars.
I'm also playing a Russian campaign at the moment (high, expert) and I have to say the Russians get a simple, but very efficient roster. I tend to use a lot of halberdiers even against enemy swords. If you keep them supported, they usually get the job done. FFK (druzhina) should be able to hold their own against any sword units. Russians start with a high-command prince, and if you beat the Mongols, you should end up with a high-influence prince, a lot of high valour units and generals with more stars on their chest than the veterans of Stalingrad.

On another note, I don't understand why everybody whines about Lithuanian Cavalry. I've used them quite a lot, and IMHO they are an excellent medium cavalry unit, capable of slugging it out for a while and quickly chasing routers.

Marquis

[Tricky Lady]

Hmmm, when reading all these (interesting) posts, I'm starting to feel that I am using my AUMs horribly wrong in my Almo campaign. I had a feeling that (now that I'm in the high period) they were becoming pretty much useless (but kept them because I didn't find a good replacement for them).
Grrr, feel a bit silly on tactics now.

I should relaunch Almo campaign before I get stuck on RTW...

(thanks for the tips guys)

[Doug-Thompson]

Russians get Vikings. They'll still die, but will do some damage and cost even less than AUM. I'd suggest getting the valor bonus from Norway then upgrade them in Sweden, an iron province, for weapons.

AUM are a great unit, definitely one of my favorites. They're showing their age by the middle of the high period but by then they've built up lots of valor and are getting a valor bonus in Grenada and, for the human player, weapons upgrades in the iron provinces of Spain.

Another option is Steppe Heavy Cavalry. People think of them as horse archers but their melee stats are very good. Almohads tend to have lots of Desert Archers, a very good anti-HA unit, but Steppe Heavies are a tougher target for archers than most. So, you might get to fire off enough arrows before charging to seriously cut down the AUM's.

[katank]

AUMs are still very powerful even late into the game due to the valor bonus which keeps them on the level of CMAA and plentiful Iron in Iberia.

the rest of the almo roster is also good.

the murabitin inf in particular is very effective jav which can also melee and works as pursuit inf.

I usually get Cyrenacia to produce v2 Saharan cav and upgrade them instead of using ghulam cav.

sure, you don't have as much of a punch when charging but you get higher attack and can pursue better.

DAs are also good but lose its appeal a bit when compared with arbs for raw killing power.

[motorhead]

On another note, I don't understand why everybody whines about Lithuanian Cavalry. I've used them quite a lot, and IMHO they are an excellent medium cavalry unit, capable of slugging it out for a while and quickly chasing routers.

Marquis

The problem I have with LithCav is their build requirements are way too steep. Take the exact same buildings and you can build +1V Mounted Sgts (from master horse) who equal or exceed LC stats in every category and they're cheaper to boot. They're not even fast cav, 9/20/22 is standard cav speed.

[katank]

just use buffed steppe cav and they are faster for pursuit and helluva lot cheaper.

if using heavy normal horse unit, just buy some steppe heavies who can shoot also and have better melee as well as lower reqs.

[Fragony]

Russians get Vikings.

They do? I have never been able to build vikings as Russia Which provinces get them? This makes Russia a specacular faction!

[Oleander Ardens]

Aren't the Vikings just in "early" and the Russians just in "high" and "late" ?

IIRC they are buildable in Finland and Novgorod, but has been a long time since my last Niv. game...


Cheers

OA

[Sir Chauncy]

One tactic that I think most people have overlooked here is the "pump your enemy so full of mayonnaise that he finds it hard to move" or the terrifying "feed him prunes for 24 hours and tell him the nearest toilet is 2 hours away at full gallop".

Very effective I think you will all agree.

As for actually fighting them on the battlefield, I have never ever had a problem with AUM, they really aren't that much trouble. People rave about them but all you have to do is charge them in the rear and bobs your uncle, even dodgy cavalry like the hobilars is very effective. And as Russia you have Boyars! Just run straight at them and watch them cower in their little space boots. However, the single most effective thing that I have found against AUMs are units of Jinettes. They are awesome, chuck a few javelins (micromanaged with out skirmish) and then do a lot of flanking. I remember playing a game as Spain and a lot of Jinettes, I just couldn't stop winning, I crushed the Almos is startling numbers taking thousands of people prisoner just by doing successful flank attacks. Do the "Horns of the Buffalo" that the Zulus made famous and all will be well:

xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx < enemy


oooooooooo < you

----------------------------------------------------
xxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxx enemy advancing


oo oo
oo oo you pseudo retreating
oo oo (this is odd, it wont let me make a V shape: just imagine it looks like a V)
ooo


and then you have most of their flanks, even if you don't a mainly cavalry army can outrun most things until backup arrives. This works awesomely with Boyars as they have bows and not Javelins for a longer range. Shoot the general or weakly armoured units for maximum effect and don't bother with the AUMs, just drag them off somewhere out of the battle and then kill them all at the end.

If you can't do it now, I don't know that you will be able too.

By the way, if you have SAP, why don't you use the halberds? The Swiss ones that are hard as nails and chew through armour like a rust mite in an iron mongers shop?

[katank]

a little modding or -ian switch will let you play novgorod in early.

viks require only a fort and are available anywhere.

so get out and vik spam! waves of woodsmen and vikings can cost effectively knock out even Byz jedi led armies!

bleed your opposition to death using such spamming.

jinettes are ideal counters to AUMs. speedy and javs go through armor like butter.

Russians and catholics all get jinettes.

[Silver Rusher]

For the first time ever I've kept a game going long enough to actually get some SAP. Now I had always read here that these were some serious infantry.

This coincided with the big orange empire deciding to pick a fight with me. Whenever this has happened in the past I have always found AUM to be pretty much indestructable, but now, surely, I would be the master, right?

Wrong. Admittedly I was giving away three command stars to the Almo general (they seem to have about 200 6 star generals) but it was the same story as before. Even with AUM pinned in front of one unit of SAP, and charged in the rear by another, they took an awfully long time to die. (Die they did, but not before wiping out an entire unit of pikes)

Whats going on here? Are they the best infantry unit or what? I am playing as the Russians so I don't even have much decent cav to run them down with though a boyar sandwich would probably give them pause for thought.

Aah... My friend, you must remember the 3 iron laws of battle.

1. Melee infantry beats spears.
2. Spears beat cavalry.
3. Cavalry beat melee infantry.

I don't understand how AUMs are so good anyways though, they are militia after all, normal UMs are quite rubbish. They are way way way too cost effective, though, whoever pointed that out was right.

[katank]

they may be militia class but their stats are FMAA stats for vanilla ones and from granada, they are better than CMAA!

they are extremely strong and under a good general can be next to invincible.

I don't agree with the simplicity of the cav beats sword business. the question is how to cost effectively beat em.

if the AUMs are parked in a forest, you can do nothing with your heavy cav other than getting slaughtered.

[Daveybaby]

One tactic that I think most people have overlooked here is the "pump your enemy so full of mayonnaise that he finds it hard to move" or the terrifying "feed him prunes for 24 hours and tell him the nearest toilet is 2 hours away at full gallop".

Very effective I think you will all agree.

As for actually fighting them on the battlefield, I have never ever had a problem with AUM, they really aren't that much trouble. People rave about them but all you have to do is charge them in the rear and bobs your uncle

But whatever you do, dont pump them full of mayonnaise, feed them prunes for 24 hours AND THEN charge them from the rear.

[Desiderata]

they may be militia class but their stats are FMAA stats for vanilla ones and from granada, they are better than CMAA!

they are extremely strong and under a good general can be next to invincible.

I don't agree with the simplicity of the cav beats sword business. the question is how to cost effectively beat em.

if the AUMs are parked in a forest, you can do nothing with your heavy cav other than getting slaughtered.

I think that if you make comparisons of vanilla troops I think the model works to a degree. However, I also agree that the situation is often far more complex and many variables come in to play; for example, the geography and terrain of the battle site, the weather and the general's stats. But it's stil a useful guide IMHO

[Doug-Thompson]

They do? I have never been able to build vikings as Russia Which provinces get them? This makes Russia a specacular faction!

Re: Russians and Vikings.

Don't pay any attention to me. I've gone senile.

No, they don't. Sorry for the confusion.

[katank]

whatchya talking about? Danes and Novgorod get viks in early with a fort.

doug, I hope you aren't going on technicalities of Russia not being Novgorod. they are the same faction.

[Doug-Thompson]

Danes get Vikings all the way through the game, not just in early, and the original post was about Russians.

[Mount Suribachi]

Those who think the AUMs aren't that good aren't using them properly

Despite what others say, the rest of the Almohad roster is weak, especially once you get out of early, and the lack of a decent spear unit is a real weakness.

In the Almohad PBEM, during the reign of one Caliph, I managed to conquer Italy, The Papacy (twice), France, England and the HRE, using an army that was approx 50% AUM. The only units that put up a decent fight were Order Foot and Swabian Swordsmen (who chopped them to pieces). And for a sword unit, they can put up a decent stand against cavalry too, certainly long enough to try and get help there.

[katank]

hmm, novgorod get viks. I'm dead sure of that.

ok, Russians don't. Now I stand corrected.

thanks, doug.

[McGowan]

You know, fighting against the Almo's, I've never had any real difficulty with their AUMs. There were a couple of pesky situations, but the only real difficulty I've had is with hordes of Berber camels and Saharan Cavalry. I tend to be an infantry heavy player, and my inability to close with the camels, either with foot or with the few cavalry I use, annoys me. I end up wasting my arrows on them, while that fast Saharan cav just flanks me.

I know the 'solution' is to fight on a hill or in the woods, but that's only 100% viable advice if one is defending, the attacker has to go to the enemy. I find offensives into Almohad territory to be frustrating unless I can use bribery and take advantage of a civil war.

All of that said, playing as the Almohads, I find the AUMs to be excellent troops, provided they stay out of the desert. Spanish Jinettes are the bane of their existence, of course, but I find Berber's to be more than a match for Jinettes in equal numbers. Of course, the Egyptians and the Spanish seem to be the two powers that can truly stand against the Almo's in the Early era, and they just happen to be the two major powers on the Almo's borders. It's always harrowing, waiting to see if I can manage a breakout, or if bad misfortune will o'ercome me.

Back on topic, what I mean to say is that the AUM is an excellent unit, but I personally have never seen the AI use the unit appropriately to it's full potential, and consequently have never had too much difficulty dispatching them. Shoot them full of arrows on their approach, stop them with a group or two of militia sergeants and then flank with whatever you have to hand. Simultaneously, focus any remaining firepower against some of the easily routed units in the Almo line up (plenty to choose from), as soon as they start to run, your outnumbered and flanked AUMs will turn tail.