Rise of Rome

[alogic]

Rise of Rome: (From Senate to Ceasar)

http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18093

This will be a new mod based on the Romans Rise to power.. It will cover Romes initial conquest of the Italian peninsula, the Punic Wars with Carthage, Pyrrhus' invasion, and the beginnings of the conquest of Gaulia... Map will cover entire Italian peninsula, Southern Gaulia, Eastern Spain, and North Africa..

Factions: (as of this moment)
1. Rome
2. Carthage
3. Syracuse
4. Samnium
5. Estruscans
6. Gaul (various tribes)
7. Celtiberians (Ancient Spanish)
8. Greek Colonies
9. Epirus (Pyrrhus' forces in Taras)
10. Aequi
11. Volsci
12. Oscans
13. Numidia
14. Campanians

For those not familiar with my work.. please look under Diadochi.. in this forum.. I will be contributing the units for this game.. they will all be rendered in 3d and then transfered into the MTW engine.. I am presently looking for other modders to contribute to RoR.. if you are interested in joining the team please post a reply below.. letting me know what you can do

Model Inventory

Scutarri
http://www.image-dump.com/view.php?m=1&x=18303

[alogic]

Rome:Tulian
1st Class (Sp)/O
2nd Class (Sp)/I
3rd Class (Sp)/I
4th Class (Ax)/O
5th Class (Ps)/I
Equites (Cv)/O
Latin allied cavalry (Cv)/O
Latin allied foot (Sp)/I
Hernician allies
Italian Hill Tribes cavalry (Cv)/O
Italian Hill Tribes infantry (Ax)/O

Rome:Camillian
Equites (Cv)/O
Italiot Cav (Cv)/O
Leves (Ps)/I
Hastati (Bd)/O
Principes (Sp)/O
Triarii (Sp)/S
Rorarii (Ps)/I
Accensi (Sp)/I
Italian greek allies (Ps)/I
Non-Latin Italian Infantry (Ax)/I
Ally Samnite cavalry (Cv)/O
Ally Samnite infantry (Ax)/S
Incendiary pigs
Anti-elephant wagons

Rome:Polybian
Triarri~Reg~Sp~S
Principes~Reg~Bd/Sp~O
Hastati~Reg~Bd~O
Velites~Reg~Ps~S
Penal Legion
Roman Cav~Reg~Cv~O
Allied Italiot Cav~Reg~Cv~O
Allied Italiot Inf ~Reg~Ax~I
Extraordinarii allied infantry~Reg~Ax~S
Syracusan or Trallian slingers~Irr~Ps~O
Gallic infantry~Irr~Wb~F
Slave volunteer legion~Reg~Bd~I
Slave volunteer triarii~Reg~Sp~I
Iberian scutarii~Irr~Ax~S
Iberian caetrati [Cv]~Irr~Ps~S
Iberian round shield cavalry~Irr~LH
Tarantine cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Gallic or Spanish cavalry~Irr~Cv~O
Numidian or Illyrian cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Illyrian infantry~Irr~Ax~S
Ligurian infantry~Irr~Ax~O
African elephants~Irr~El~I
Numidian Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Numidian Javelinmen~Irr~Ps~S
Numidian Javelinmen~Irr~Ax~I
Numidian Elephants~Irr~El~I


Carthage:Early
4-horse Chariots
Poeni Cavalry Cv/O
Numidian Mercenary Cavalry LH/O
Campanian Cavalry Cv/O
Carthaginian Sacred Band Sp/S
Poeni Citizen Infantry Sp/I
Poeni Citizen Infantry Ax/O
African Spearmen Sp/I
Spanish Scutarii Ax/S
Spanish Catraeti Ps/S
Balearic Slingers Ps/O
Numidian Mercenary Javelinmen Ps/O
Ligurian Axemen Ax/S
Ligurian Javelinmen Ax/O
Gallic Infantry Wb/O
Mercenary Hoplites Sp/O
Campanian Infantry Sp/O
Campanian Infantry Ax/O
Ligurian slingers Ps/O
Siciliot Javelinmen Ps/I

Carthage:Late
Poeni cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Numidian Mercenary Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Spanish Mercenary Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Spanish Mercenary Cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Gallic Cavalry~Irr~Cv~O
Spanish Mercenary Scutarii~Reg~Ax~S
Spanish Mercenary Caetrati~Reg~Ps~S
Gallic Ifantry ~Irr~Wb~F
Ligurians~Irr~Ax~O
Elephants~Irr~El~I
Libyan Veteran Spearmen~Reg~Sp~S
Mercenary Javelinmen~Reg~Ps~S
Balearic Slingers~Reg~Ps~O
Roman Deserters~Reg~Bd~I
Other Italian Infantry~Reg~Sp~I
Other Italian Infantry~Reg~Ax~O
Bruttian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Bruttian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~O
Campanian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Campanian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~I
Roman Style Principes~Reg~Sp~I
Roman Style Hastati~Reg~Bd~I
Lucanian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Lucanian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~O
Lucanian Javelinmen~Reg~Ax~S
Celtiberian mercenaries~Irr~Wb~F
Libyan Spearmen~Reg~Sp~O
Libyan Veteran Spearmen~Reg~Sp~S
Bruttian Veterans~Reg~Ax~S
Mercenary archers~Irr~Ps~O
Mercenary Hoplites~Reg~Sp~O
Syracusan Hoplites~Reg~Sp~I
Syracusan archers and slingers~Reg~Ps~O
Syracusan cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Syracusan cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Syracusan Gauls~Irr~Wb~S
Siciliot Hoplites~Irr~Sp~I
Siciliot javelinmen~Irr~Ps~I
Siciliot cavalry~Reg~Cv~I
Siciliot cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Hammipoi supporting cavalry~Reg~Ps~I

Samnites: (work in progress)
Linteata (Elite Infantry)
Javelinmen
Samnite Warriors (Light Warband)
Samnite Spearmen
Samnite Light Cav
Samnite Heavy Cav
Skirmishers
Ernici

Syracuse:(work in progress)
Tyrant's Bodyguard
Hoplites (Syracusan, Mercenary, Allied Citizen)
Peltasts
Skirmishers
Greek Cavalry
Celtic Mercenaries
Numidian Mercenaries
Italiot Mercenaries (Samnite Spearmen, Campanian Hoplites, Italiot Cav)
Mountain Tribesmen
Spanish Mercenaries (Caetrati & Scutarii)
Libyan Tribesmen
False Hoplites

Helvetii
Nobles (Heavy Cavalry)
Warriors (Wb)
Tulingi/Boii allies (Wb)
Adolescents (Sk)

Estruscan
Devoti (Sp).... elite
Citizen(Sp)
Etruscan Axemen
Skirmishers
Allied Light Infantry
Heavy Cav

Gaullia (General)
Chariots
Cavalry
Warriors
Warriors-Fast
Javelinmen
Archers or slingers
Elderly, slaves
Foot general's soldurii bodyguards
Naked Gaesati

Ancient Spanish
Long shield cavalry~Irr~Cv~O
Round shield cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Slingers~Irr~Ps~O
Scutarii~Irr~Ax~S
Caetrati~Irr~Ps~S
Mercenary Celtiberian scutarii~Irr~Wb~F
Flaming ox wagons~Irr~Exp~O.............................. Oh yeah baby!!!

Numidia
Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Javelinmen~Irr~Ps~S
Javelinmen~Irr~Ax~I
Archers or Slingers~Irr~Ps~O
Roman trained infantry~Reg~Ax~O
Elephants~Irr~El~I
Gaetuli~Reg~Ax~I
Ligurian deserters~Irr~Ax~O

Pyrrhus
Epirot or Macedonean Cavalry~Reg~Kn~F
Thessalian Cavalry~Reg~Cv~O
Greek Cavalry~Reg~Cv~I
Aitolian Cavalry~Irr~LH~O
Tarentine Phalangities~Reg~Pk~I
Epirot Phalangities~Reg~Pk~O
Greek Hoplites~Irr~Sp~O
Italiote Hoplites~Reg~Sp~I
Archers or Slingers~Reg~Ps~O
Aitolian etc Javelinmen~Irr~Ps~S
Elephants~Irr~El~O
Tarentine Cavalry~Reg~LH~O
Oscan Foot~Reg~Ax~S
Oscan Foot~Reg~Ax~O


**All Mercenaries require control of said units home province/s.. (ie.. in order for Syracuse to produce Spanish Mercenaries.. they first must take control of an Iberian Province..

[alogic]

ditto

[mercian billman]

Unfortunately I have no modding skills but, I could help with historical research and such.

BTW, won't this mod kind of conflict with RTW?

[Zastrow]

Essentially a big arena of the western mediterranean.

I can begin work on Carthaginian units and such as well as info and such for them.

[Zastrow]

For some reason, I can't edit. Anyways, its Iberians, who are a seperate people, during the 400s BC or so, the Celtic peoples of the Aquatanii group began migrating into Iberia and formed a mixed Celtiberian culture, that is why North-Western Spain is referred to as 'Galicia'.

I think it'd be good to have various Gallic groups, like the Helvetii, Aquatanii, as independent groups, for more playability and such and to represent the poor cohesion the various Gallic tribes had.

[alogic]

Yes I agree.. but we should only use the largest or best known groups to keep faction list from getting to large.. Such as Cisalpine Gauls, Transalpine Gauls, Helvetii, Southern Gauls.. this allows many tribes to be grouped under a lager heading....

Let's shoot for 5 to 6 max divisions of tribes.. with only 3 or 4 playable... Let me know which ones you think are best..

[Zastrow]

Major Celtic enthic divisions were:

Celtae

Belgae

Some major tribes that often dominated lesser ones:

Helvetii (Switzerland, Italy)
Aquatanii (South-Western France, Northern Spain)
Arvenii (Central Gaul)
Verconii (Southern Gaul)

Those would be all that would apply to us as least.

All could be playable. The only problem I can imagine is making 4 different Gallic Fractions would be getting enough colors and flag designs.

[Zastrow]

Here are some pics I edited up for an RPG based in 275 BC I made, Laxamentum Imperium means something along the lines of:

'Expanding Empire'

'Expansion of Imperial Authority'

etc

I could get some new pics and breath some life into them or edit those up for your Rise of Rome mod.

[alogic]

True.. we can make all of them playable.. but we need to come up with enough differences between them so as they do not seem to be just clones of one another.. Each tribe should have something that makes them unique from the others.. we can sort it all out later.. just a thought for now..

Awesome pics... definetly interested...

I've started a small introduction to faction army list above.. I will update as we get further into mod developement.. this is very open.. and anyone with insight is welcome to make suggestions for any of the factions listed..

[Zastrow]

Quick picture I edited up for the mod.

I know the Helvetii were by far the most advanced technology wise of all the Gauls and the Arvenii were known for their ferociousness, infact I think their name means like those who do not surrender or something along those lines. Aquitanii and Verconii, no idea really. You could have Aquitanii respresent Celtiberians as well, I dunno.

[Zastrow]

How about for Syracuase:

Sicel Spearmen
(Sicels were the early inhabinants of Sicily and still today the people in the interior of Sicily are referred to as Sicels, these troops could represent levies recruited from outside Syracuase's territory.

Also, what does Syracuase represent? I assume it represents the Greek City states in Sicily while 'Greek Colonies' represent the Greek cities in italy, southern gaul, etc.

Also, you should ass Illyria to the map area and possibly Epirus, so the Romans can expand East some.

[alogic]

Excellent work... I need to finish up an animation for Diadoch before calling it a night.. I will check in here tommorrow.. really like the pic.. it's perfect!!

...here I almost forgot to show you this.. once you get to the page just pick a campaign.. lots of info here that we can use..
http://www.slitherine.co.uk/Legion/Campaigns.htm

[Marshal Murat]

Foundations of Rome is a good one to check out.
Also, you should include Macedon.
During the 2nd Punic War, King Philip of Macedon pledged his army to Hannibal. (He never followed though though)

[Pericles]

Since I, and a lot of other people, will not be upgrading their cmputers for some time, just to play RTW, this mod will be VERY welcome.

Glad you fellas are working on this

All the best. . .

[Consul Flaminius]

Need any help beta testing?

[Zastrow]

How About we just combine Syracuase and the Greek colonies all together? They don't have any differences really to make them unique from each other.

How about a general 'Magna Graecia' Fraction, representing the Greek cities in Sicily and Italy, as well as Massila in Gaul and greek colonies in Iberia.

They could have:

Pole-Arms
1) Syracuasan Phalangites (Sort of their 'elite' unit, Syracuase did have the best phalanx force of the greek colonies)

2) Graecian Phalangites (Their general pike unit, recruited from cities like Naxos, Messina, Rhegium, Tarantenum, etc, Similar to standard Greek phalanx, but probaly less disciplined and not as well armored, but possibly possessing much more motivation and elan)

3) Sicel Spearmen (Lightly armored levies from the interior rural communities)

4) Town Militia (Lightly armored spearmen to represent the various Greek colonies and their small local militaries)

Skirmishers
1) Sicel Slingers (Non-Armored slingers levied from the interior of Sicily)

Cavalry

The Greek colonies didn't really have anything in the way of cavalry formations.

That'd give them 4 'unique' units or so, and if we include greece, (which could add like 4 new fractions to the game, which I don't think is wise) would made them kinda of unique from their parent Greek city states.

[alogic]

These descriptions were taken from the game Legion it tends to support the idea of Greek colonies established along the coast and in Southern Italy..

Thurii
Thurii in the game is somewhat symbolic of a string of Greek cities on the southern coast. Founded in 444BC on the site of Sybaris, its chequered history featured short-lived leadership of a league of Greek cities, continual pressure from the interior Bruttians and Lucanians, calling in Roman help to precipitate the Pyrrhic War, and joining Hannibal. Soon after the Hannibalic War the Romans planted a colony there, ending its independence

Etruria
The Etruscans had connections, and perhaps origins, in the eastern Mediterranean. They developed a loose ‘League of 12 Nations’ which met at the ‘Fane of Voltumna’ near Volsinii. Their control at one point stretched from Campania to the Po, and included Rome. However, they were pushed back by the Greeks in the south, the Gauls in the north, then the growing power of Rome.

Campania
One of the most fertile areas in Italy, the interior was dominated by the Etruscans, the coast by Greek colonies, early in the period

Here is a page for Syracuse
http://www.barca.fsnet.co.uk/syracuse-history.htm

Syracuse, I believe, is worthy of having their own faction.. separate from Greeks.. Syracuse played an important role during the Punic Wars.. first being allied with Carthage.. then later with Rome.. even Pyrrhus got into the action.. when reading over this particular point in history.. you continually see the name "Syracuse" popping up..

I would like for the Greek Colonies to be a sort of Federation in game.... I can make Syracusan.. Greek.. and Etruscan units.. that look completly different from one another.. but with enough similarities that their greek influence can be seen... here is one of the places where I go.. to get reference when creating my 3d models..
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_32_figure_1.htm
http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_34_figure_1.htm

I will think more about expanding the map.. I'm just afraid of adding too many factions.. Illyrians, Macedonians, Epirotes, Aetolia, Kyrenaica (This part of North Africa would appear on map if Macedon was added)... however I also like displaying Pyrrhus' home province..

Also.. on this same topic.. we need someone to make a strategy map for us.. Making a Lukmap (the map that defines each factions territories) is a major pain in the rump.. This person would really have the final say on what areas the map covers...

[Zastrow]

I supose you can have Syracuase represent the old Dionysus Federation and Greek Colonies the rest. The thing with the map will be difficult since so many little cities dot the mediterranean that are greek.

[Pericles]

I think it would be kind of interesting if sometime down the road you might be able to have a "Spartacus" campaign, with the player being able to play Spartacus or the Romans.

Can Spartacus succeed this time?

This might need a separate map just of Italy.

Cheers!

[Marshal Murat]

I would think that Syracuse would be different from the Colonies, because there was a tyrant ruling the city.

[Zastrow]

Most of the cities in Magna Graecia were ruled by tyrants.

I can maybe begin looking for maps of the region and try and give you one, just so we can know what we are working with, I suggest Illyria be added and that's all, maybe Epirus too.

[Zastrow]

After some quick searching I found a map that would work perfectly, I've already began editing it a bit, I can add rough fraction boundaries, etc if you want.

Here it is:
http://www.unc.edu/awmc/downloads/rve_04_1Med.jpg

[alogic]

Zastrow... man you are good.. that map is exactly what I had in mind.. go ahead and see what you can do with it.. I think, as far as the Greeks are concerned we might could collectively call them Magna Grecia.. having them work as one independent faction.. I believe there were colonies in Southern Greece & Northeastern Sicily.. as well as others.. you are right about the map in that we must be careful so as to leave enough room for each faction.. this is the main reason that I wanted to keep the overall map area small... Adding Illyria will be fine.. if Epirus would be good.. but not mandatory.. (I just like Pyrrhus)..

Zastrow.. can you tell me more about the Dionysus Federation.. I have to admit there are alot of things I don't know about this area..

[Zastrow]

No problem alogic, glad to help, I've helped out alot of modding teams in the past, NTW team, The Great War mod for Hearts of Iron and others.

I will begin working on the map wednesday and tonight perhaps, tomorrow is back to school and I'm hanging out with my friends tuesday evening, so I should have some form of a rough map your way by thursday/friday.

About Dionysus, in the late 5th century the Greeks were nearly expelled from Sicily when Segesta called upon its ally, Carthage to help it with a border dispute with Selinus, both cities are in western Sicily. The Carthaginians continued their advanced, pushing all the way to the eastern part of the island, but in 406 BC Dionysus I, became tyrant of Syracuse and binded together the various cities in eastern Sicily into a sort of a Federation and they pushed the Carthaginians back to the western part of the island of Sicily. After this, Dionysus formed a small Syracusen kingdom and expanded into southern Italy, where all the Greek city states consider him, and Syracuse to be their protector from the Italian peoples. After Dionysus' death in 396 the Federation slowly fell apart and by the time the Romans began pushing into the area in the 290 BC, the Greek city states had to look elsewhere for aid, namely, Epirus.

[Zastrow]

Also, when do you want the mod to start? I was thinking maybe after Rome conquerored Latium? That'd be 499 BC, so we could have it be 500 BC to say... 0 AD?

[Zastrow]

Okay, I spent about half an hour or so working on provinces for the game, I got out my Maps of the Ancient world and I think what I have produced will work very well, and I can come up with names for most of the provinces easily, but ones in Iberia and such will be more difficult, I was figuring naming most of the provinces off the tribes that inhabit them, for example, in Italy, Sabina, Oscana, etc for the Sabines and Oscana tribes.

Here is the map, red lines = provinces, numbers on them are for me to type up a provincial list you can match with the provinces, I tried to making the numbering make sense, but I made some mistakes and went back, not wanting to type all 82 provinces over again, just added them in, so a few places are kinda out there. I will type up a province list tomorrow or wednesday.

Here is the map:

[alogic]

I've been thinking about the same thing.. I want to keep as much historical accurracy as I can.. but I want to make the gameplay to work well too.. the problem I see right now.. is that I would need to create several versions of the Roman Army to reflect the differences (Camillian,Tulian, Polybian).. the problem is that you could technically have Roman style Hoplites on the same battlefield as Triarri & Principes.. I don't want that.. We may can just divide up the time periods.. as in Mtw.. with an Early..Late..High.. but I'm not sure if I want to do that just yet.... Will think more on the subject.. I do have some early roman helmets modeled in 3d somewhere on my harddrive.. so making the units won't be a problem.....

Let's just keep going for now and leave the date open ended for the moment.. Also, just in case you didn't know.. the date in MTW can not be adjusted for B.C. to my knowledge.. With Diadoch, I'm planning to change years into turns.. (if possible.. start at 1 and proceed up).

The Map.. once again I have to say Great Work.. really exceeding expectations here..

[Zastrow]

We should probaly divide it into time periods based off major changes in Roman society, territory or military. Say an Early Phase, Rome crushing Etruscans, etc, hoplite armies, etc and then Middle Phase, expansion into Samnium, wars against the Gauls, etc, a Punic Phase, wars against Phyrrus, Carthage, etc and finally a Caesarian Phase, the wars against the Gauls, Iberians, etc.

I dunno, just a though, for the moment I will work on completeing the map. Do you like my work on it so far?

[alogic]

I think we posted simultaneously.. see post above