Anyone else disappointed in the low number of cities in RTW?

[Armchair Athlete]

What remains to be seen is that whether there is a limit of a number of cities/provinces that can be modded in (like in MTW). Hopefully the limit will be fairly high, it would be great to have more cities on Sicily, Greece and Italy so the Punic Wars could be an epic clash.

[USMCNJ]

more cities does not equal to better gameplay.
it;s more micromaneging to do.
look at VI compared to MTW, i personaly like VI better.

[RTKLamorak]

agreed.. but, having the option would appeal to a wider range of players. Just the option of having that kind of micro managment kept auto or manual would please everyone imo.

[afrit]

more cities does not equal to better gameplay.
it;s more micromaneging to do.
look at VI compared to MTW, i personaly like VI better.

More cities *may* lead to worse gameplay, but if done right it leads to better gameplay. Hence the analogy I made with the tactical battle. If TW battles were like Starcraft where you managed each individual soldier, then it would become a nightmare to play with 1000's of soldiers. Rather you manage units, but the fight looks *and feels* much more realistic because the computer simulates each soldier individually.

Similarly, a province really contains many towns and villages and not just a single city. If done right, with most (smaller) towns on auto-manage, then the "feel" and gameplay will improve. Remember that with RTW we will be able to play a realistic rendition of the battles of hannibal in Italy, but we will not be able to play a realistic rendition of his campaign given that there are only 7 or so cities in the entire peninsula!

THink about all the strategies that increasing the number of cities engender:

1. Raids. If you invade a province in MTW (and I bet in RTW) with a small raiding force, you either capture the whole province or have to abandon the raid if the enemy seriously outnumbers you. However, with multiple towns your small raiding army may be able to burn a settlement or two. Or maybe it'll get caught and be destroyed.

2. More flexible borders. In MTW, certain provinces were a "must get" because they shortened your borders. However that is an artificial product of the way the map was drawn. (I believe this would be less of a problem in RTW because you can build forts).

3. More replayability. Reading the guides on different factions in MTW shows that certain factions have a predictable progression (e.g Danes always take sweden etc....). With multi-cities, you may take part of sweden, all of sweden or carve a new province from west sweden and east norway etc...

4. Eliminate some artificial aspects of the game such as a single unit per province per turn. You can build multiple barracks in different towns of the same province. As long as the population supports unit training and you have enough money.

There are many more.

Of course things like loyalty, productivity, religion etc. will become much harder to track. But that;s why we have powerful computers! Also cities would have to fall to an invading army without a fight after a defeat of the defender's army in the field (i.e would have a morale indicator for garrisons).

I could go on . But I think I explained my point.

I really hope the next TW title goes in that direction.

Afrit

[ICantSpellDawg]

More cities *may* lead to worse gameplay, but if done right it leads to better gameplay. Hence the analogy I made with the tactical battle. If TW battles were like Starcraft where you managed each individual soldier, then it would become a nightmare to play with 1000's of soldiers. Rather you manage units, but the fight looks *and feels* much more realistic because the computer simulates each soldier individually.

Similarly, a province really contains many towns and villages and not just a single city. If done right, with most (smaller) towns on auto-manage, then the "feel" and gameplay will improve. Remember that with RTW we will be able to play a realistic rendition of the battles of hannibal in Italy, but we will not be able to play a realistic rendition of his campaign given that there are only 7 or so cities in the entire peninsula!

THink about all the strategies that increasing the number of cities engender:

1. Raids. If you invade a province in MTW (and I bet in RTW) with a small raiding force, you either capture the whole province or have to abandon the raid if the enemy seriously outnumbers you. However, with multiple towns your small raiding army may be able to burn a settlement or two. Or maybe it'll get caught and be destroyed.

2. More flexible borders. In MTW, certain provinces were a "must get" because they shortened your borders. However that is an artificial product of the way the map was drawn. (I believe this would be less of a problem in RTW because you can build forts).

3. More replayability. Reading the guides on different factions in MTW shows that certain factions have a predictable progression (e.g Danes always take sweden etc....). With multi-cities, you may take part of sweden, all of sweden or carve a new province from west sweden and east norway etc...

4. Eliminate some artificial aspects of the game such as a single unit per province per turn. You can build multiple barracks in different towns of the same province. As long as the population supports unit training and you have enough money.

There are many more.

Of course things like loyalty, productivity, religion etc. will become much harder to track. But that;s why we have powerful computers! Also cities would have to fall to an invading army without a fight after a defeat of the defender's army in the field (i.e would have a morale indicator for garrisons).

I could go on . But I think I explained my point.

I really hope the next TW title goes in that direction.

Afrit

very good suggestions

[Voigtkampf]

Most reasonable arguments, afrit, and I would like to see your wishes becoming as much as possible part of the Rome.

[USMCNJ]

in theory it sounds good. but think on how it will effect game play.
the map would be clutered with cities. ( you would have the old problem of dozens of units in a provence, but now it would be cities, which you need to build your empire)
emagine having to protect all those cities from raids. you would have to double or triple your forces, (depending on the number of cities). then you have to think about their loyalty , and the cities.
think of the trade system.
it would be worse then victoria. play that game and you will see why more != better.
if you add more cities than a single campaign will take months to complete.
and that takes the replay value out of the game. I personaly would not want to start a new campaign knowing that it would take a month to complete.

[The_Emperor]

if you add more cities than a single campaign will take months to complete.
and that takes the replay value out of the game. I personaly would not want to start a new campaign knowing that it would take a month to complete.

Yeah and arguably MTW campaigns take too long to finish anyway. I couldn't stand it when you become the greatest superpower, nobody can stand before you... Yet you are forced into an endless string of sieges rather than battles.

All I ever seemed to do was lay siege to castles in the latter stages of a MTW campaign it was too boring.

I'd hate for us to have even MORE cities in RTW that we have to sack...

[afrit]

Most reasonable arguments, afrit, and I would like to see your wishes becoming as much as possible part of the Rome.

Thanks

[Louis VI the Fat]

I like your ideas, Afrit. But (sorry for that inevitable 'but') just like you I have to work for a living and I fear that implementing these ideas would only make the game even longer than it is already...