Hastati Useless?

[Marshal Murat]

One problem I am having with the Hastati and Principali are that when they charge is that they spread out and then when they hit, the are in this big wide group that is practically deadly to them. Is there a remedy?

[Tamur]

How wide a formation do you have them in?

If they're in their (default) three-rank formation they do present a very wide front that tends to get tangled with anyone else very easily.

I've had much better luck putting them in ranks of four or five. They get flanked more easily, so you have to keep reserves to cover their wings, but if they're charging in that formation they stay in a unit very well.

[Stormer]

Well they way the romans used to set up with Hastai, pricepes, triaii, is impossible to do in the game because once you hastai get wiped out which dont take long the flee though your pricepes and they shit there self and run into the triaii who then flee so the back 2 ranks have basiclly just fled with out killing anyone.

anyone know how to sort this out or do i just have to use my solution of Pricepes at the first ranks with triaii on flanks and hastai in reserve.

How do you set it out?

[Tamur]

If I understand correctly, Stormer, your hastati are being slaughtered and running away, causing the rest of your infantry to rout?

A couple of suggestions:

1) line up your army like you were saying (hastati, principes, triarii in back) then *keep them that way*. Unsupported hastati will get hacked up pretty quickly, but if you send in the hastati in a deeper formation than 3 ranks, and have the principes right behind them ready to wade in, the hastati will fare rather better.

or...

2) pull the enemy to you with a decoy unit or two (velites maybe?), giving both the hastati and the principes time to throw at least one pilum, then charge both the hastati and principes at the same time. You get the weight of numbers, and can use your triarii to flank.

Depth of formation is a big factor with hastati. If you can afford to have a smaller front, do try having four or five ranks.

[Stormer]

i did what you said it worked pretty well they fought on till the bitter end until the sacred band finished my army off. maybe next time

[Tamur]

Ooh, Sacred Band are brutal. They have a *huge* built-in valour bonus, at least for the demo, and rout at about the same time the last one dies. Good luck!

[Orda Khan]

Yes, it's all about support...and timing. I have tried the Romans once or twice and found them very strong if you set them on fire at will. Don't allow Hastati to get isolated too far ahead of the Principes and this second line can unleash their pila before assisting in melee. Likewise, don't commit Principes too early or there is a possibility your flanks will become vulnerable. I have noticed the maps to be quite deceiving and units look closer than they really are, the end result being units getting isolated. This was the same in MTW after playing STW but soon you gain more control after playing a while.

Just think how nice it would be with the old interface commands....

......Orda

[Red Harvest]

Is the version you are all playing still containing the scripts? I've modded this without the scripts and the hastati and principes are very similar...with the exception that the principes flee first (odd, but true.) Triarii are much stronger. Some people have gotten far different results than me, so I'm puzzled.

Guess it really doesn't matter yet. When we get the full game, then we will have some idea how the units truly perform.

[Marshal Murat]

Well what happened is that I charge the Gauls with the Hastati. They charge, stop throw a pila, then charge. However, after they throw the pila they become a aomeba like formation, almost like loose formations.

[Red Harvest]

Yes, I've noticed both the hastati and principes becoming a bit amoeba like as well. I don't think that should happen until contact is made. At that point they should tend to "flow" into gaps. That is an advantage of the gladius vs. spear, the flexibility to exploit gaps and flank even while engaged.

[Kagetora]

will the problem of the Hastati and Princepes not throwing the pila on the run be solved. I'm so pissed that they take so long to throw them and by the time that they do the enemy are already on them and kicking the crap out of them.

[Stormer]

Is there anyway to disable their pilum before they charge as it makes the charge slow down so much and the pilum is S**t anyway.

[Kagetora]

against a phalanx it is very useful, espcially in wave attacks. You can just hold down the ALT key and than click on the enemy unit so that your Roman unit will just charge and not throw the Pilum.

[Daevyll]

Is there anyway to disable their pilum before they charge as it makes the charge slow down so much and the pilum is S**t anyway.

ALT-attack (same as forcing archers to melee-attack in MTW really)

[Red Harvest]

Is there anyway to disable their pilum before they charge as it makes the charge slow down so much and the pilum is S**t anyway.

Yes, as others have noted. However, I get pretty good kill number with pila, charge won't make up for that...

[Tamur]

Yes, I just had one where a single pilum throw from my Hastati got 8 of the 60 Senate hastati who were charging...

[Kraxis]

Yes, I just had one where a single pilum throw from my Hastati got 8 of the 60 Senate hastati who were charging...

Pure luck or had you positioned them in a special way?

[Tamur]

I had my army like this:



Hastati Hastati Hastati
Triarii Triarii Principes Principes


And the AI's Hastati charged my two left-most Hastati. So the Hastati on my right flank threw into them at a 45 degree angle, and got eight kills.

Straight on, I don't think I've ever had more than three kills with a pilum volley.

edit: will have to take Remedial Monospace Forum Posting sometime this semester...