crusade vote

[theadept]

how often do you stage a crusade?
i have about 4 a century and how often do you send kings and princes on them
i always send the king and 1 or 2 heirs

[Sinner]

I usually play a no crusades game even though I'm usually the English. If I'm starting in Early with a GA game then I'll obviously go for the points for crusading, launching all 4 GA crusades within a decade or two, but that is it, giving me a very low average.

I don't add any troops to a crusade, so have never added a royal. My crusades tag along with one of my armies, which is perhaps led by a prince, getting me the GA points because they happen to have been in the region when it falls. I'd rather accept losing a few troops from my army to the crusade - even if they go from being billmen, longbowmen, etc to fanatics or militia - than losing them entirely as deserters. It does mean I have to wait until I have a completed sea link, perhaps via an enemy region or two en-route, since the army won't be passed through by other catholic states like the crusade will, but I consider that a worthwhile trade for the added flexibility I gain.

[King Edward]

I usually Launch a few when i have a new king if his influence is low, other than that there is no real pattern to my crusading habits

[CherryDanish]

Early on I crusade as much as possible, frequently running back to back crusades (as many as 3 in a decade). It's the best way I know of to get quality troops in early. I have never placed a royal unit in a crusade. Does it contribute to V&Vs, if so which ones?

[Ldvs]

It depends on the faction you're playing. When playing the Aragonese I launch very few crusades (1 to Antioch to complete the objective), then I usually keep one crusade ready to launch in case one of the christian factions gets excommunicated.
When playing the French/Germans, that's a crusade party

I send the heir in each of my crusades (a ransomed king loses influence).

[KillerKadugen]

I hate crusades because after they are accomplished, I have to sift through all of the garbage that it picks up on the way to its destination. Nothing irks me more than seemingly having a huge force only to realize that practically half of it is peasants and the other half is a bunch of depleted units with no real combat ability.

[SpencerH]

I've only started 1 crusade out of 10 or so campaigns (so I voted never). I hate the damn things and I never let them cross into my territory anymore.

[CherryDanish]

I hate crusades because after they are accomplished, I have to sift through all of the garbage that it picks up on the way to its destination. Nothing irks me more than seemingly having a huge force only to realize that practically half of it is peasants and the other half is a bunch of depleted units with no real combat ability.

Absolutely correct, I hate that too. That said, when the world gives you lemons and garbage army units, make lemonade. I send depleted units to larger province with sea access, somewhere in the middle of my shipping lane (less likely to get cut off) and I combine depleted units to get them to full strength. Trash units get used for garisson duty, "sacrificial lambs" when sieging instead of storming, placeholders for guarding provinces that are not in any serious threatened state but require numbers to ensure security, or when I really screw up and need warm bodies fast because I forgot about the mongol horde popping up re-emergances or whatever. I personally like poor quality troops for desert warfare and assaulting islands as they'll be trapped there when the port gets destroyed and I'd rather keep top tier units fighting than trapped on an island for 4 years waiting for a frigging port to be built/re-built. Trash is good when you recycle it. I recently started retraining trash units and using them in my main task forces. Even in late, hobilars, clansmen, and the slavic warriors (not sure if I got the name right, but the fast peasant type troops with the shields) are adequate for chasing a routing enemy off the field or soaking up arrows while my cav moves to flank.

[Ldvs]

I've only started 1 crusade out of 10 or so campaigns (so I voted never). I hate the damn things and I never let them cross into my territory anymore.

Let them cross otherwise you get excommunicated...
Just use a full stack of peasants in your province and only the peasants will join, if you put the "valuable" units apart. (for some reason they seem more prone to join ).

[CherryDanish]

Let them cross otherwise you get excommunicated...
Just use a full stack of peasants in your province and only the peasants will join, if you put the "valuable" units apart. (for some reason they seem more prone to join ).

Good ideas.

Here are some more ways to screw over a rival faction's crusade:
1) lower the zeal of a province by letting an inquisitor burn it for as long as he wants (oddly enough, for me anyway low valour inqs seem to make more bonfires of your population). Low zeal means almost none of your troops get recruited.
2) lower the zeal of a province by letting one of your own crusades sit in a province for a VERY long time ... when it's depleted send it on a suicide mission to get rid of it. Low zeal means almost none of your troops get recruited.
3) raise the zeal of a province with an inq and bishop combo (to reduce the burnings) and load it up with all your trash troops from your early ventures and crusades. The AI's crusade will soak up all your unwanted troops and if the crusade succeeds the AI faction will break itself trying to pay for it, especially mercs.
4) (from advice someone on these boards gave me) break sea chains so your stretch of ships for trading and transport do not allow a path from the province with crusades going through it and the crusade target. Forces the AI to re-route the crusade.

[Ironside]

4) (from advice someone on these boards gave me) break sea chains so your stretch of ships for trading and transport do not allow a path from the province with crusades going through it and the crusade target. Forces the AI to re-route the crusade.

Notice that crusades can only use the province owner shiplines. So if you're the English and got crusade on your lands, they can only use your shiplines, not even thier own (well we humans can't, that's for certain).

2) lower the zeal of a province by letting one of your own crusades sit in a province for a VERY long time ... when it's depleted send it on a suicide mission to get rid of it. Low zeal means almost none of your troops get recruited.

That will cost you influence though.

I crusade quite often, but mostly only to rise the influence and piety of my king. Unless it's GA ofcourse.

[Lonewarrior]

I send 4 in a century and always 2 heirs

[Marquis of Roland]

I never send my king on a crusade. Once your king is far from home, loyalty to the crown will waver. The one time I sent my (spanish) king on a crusade, all of spain rebelled and I ended up having to fight most of my experienced field armies, resulting in almost 80% of my pre-civil war armies destroyed. Frenchies conveniently attacks very next year.

Send your best prince instead, they can use the experience.

[katank]

liberal use of our king in combat duty for the first few turns and abusing his jedi powers is great for the first few turns.

after about 20 turns or so, my king never again serves in an offensive capacity.

jedi princes take over.

princes are usually my best generals and they can be members of a wolf pack sent to help a crusade.

I never use overland crusades and just about always use seaborne assaults aided by regular attack armies.

I like to use fanatics etc. more rather than risking my precious order foot and kngihts in the desert as they suffer.

I instead put those into my regular forces as they are cheap and effective outside of desert.

I always go for all 4 crusader states when I'm catholic and often take Syria as well in addition to just maintaining a stash of crusades ready for launch when the Pope calls for crusade against a faction when all markers can launch simultaneously.

4 well stocked crusades hitting targets in a single turn is crippling to any faction.

[CherryDanish]

I always go for all 4 crusader states when I'm catholic and often take Syria as well in addition to just maintaining a stash of crusades ready for launch when the Pope calls for crusade against a faction when all markers can launch simultaneously.

4 well stocked crusades hitting targets in a single turn is crippling to any faction.

I thought you could only launch one crusade at a time? I usually chain crusades on excommed factions, but I haven't been allowed to launch multiple crusades.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

As the Italians (probably my fave) I will make at least four crusades in a century.

And only seaborne (You can't control the crusade much when it is overland).

It takes longer for the non-Italian factions to launch waves of Crusades...

Maybe that's why I like the Italians.

[SpencerH]

Let them cross otherwise you get excommunicated...
Just use a full stack of peasants in your province and only the peasants will join, if you put the "valuable" units apart. (for some reason they seem more prone to join ).

Not only are you excommunicated, you are also at war with the crusader nation. I dont build peasants except when alsolutely necessary, so I have none to use, and I'll be damned if I'll let a crusade suck up my very expensive elite units that are usually guarding a border (that I dont want to leave unguarded).

Actually it's also useful for me to refuse the crusade since I usually handicap myself by not attacking other nations first (rebels are OK). Denying a crusade allows me to 'go to war' within my own rules. Assassinating the pope deals with the excommunication.

[ah_dut]

I crusade like a maniac especially with the Italians, with that navy and so much money, i go merc mad in my crusades, also mercs are very expendable.

[amir]

as mush as i can, im a crusade spammer.
in the moment one is done i send another one, its so fun.
although its a bit wierd that some1 like me wil love crusades (im jewish).

[theadept]

my english are all exteamly loyal
the only revolts i get are loyalist from when i do a sneaky take over from a region and when i have to leave one i conquer empty because my crusade is just passing through
they respect the king and let him go on his crusades and dont revolt.
the only problem is early in the game its hard to get the king back to england. he has to wait while i build a navy

[Sir William Wallace]

actually i never eally knew how to work a crusade?,, what do u actually do,, i started one but did not know what to dow ith it,,, any insight on this would be great. thanks

[Ludens]

actually i never eally knew how to work a crusade?,, what do u actually do,, i started one but did not know what to dow ith it,,, any insight on this would be great. thanks

You build one in a province with a chapter house and then target it. You do this by picking it up and dropping it on the province you want to send it too. This province must be non-Catholic (and that includes the provinces of excommunicated factions). Then you get a parchment asking you to pay the bribe to the Pope. The bribe is generally lower if the target is Muslim and if the Pope has requested crusades against the target faction. The crusade GA provinces are also at a discount.
The crusade is now active and you can add troops to it. It will also gain troops each turn, sometimes out of thin air, but also from the troops in the province it is in (if the province is Catholic). At the same time, it will lose troops (which disappear into thin air again), so don't hang around for too long. The gain/loss rate depends on the religion and zeal of the province, but if an enemy crusade is in your territory, you will always lose men.
You can move the crusade towards the enemy province or have it wait. You unfortunately can't make detours. You can move it via an uninterrupted line of ships, but this must be ships of the same country (not necessarily you, it can be of an ally). An AI nation can refuse passage, but this means they will declare war on the crusade and its owner and be excommunicated (if they are Catholic).

Jihads work the same, with the added restriction that they can be only targeted to provinces which were yours but have been lost to non-Muslim factions. It is not possible to declare a Jihad to a province which wasn't yours before, even if it has been owned by another Muslim faction.

[JAG]

In a word - Never.

[EatYerGreens]

actually i never eally knew how to work a crusade?,, what do u actually do,, i started one but did not know what to dow ith it,,, any insight on this would be great. thanks

RTW wasn't in the shop when I went looking for it so I bought MTW and VI instead and I'm now about a week into playing my first ever campaign. I'm not really in a position to vote yet as I'm still learning the ropes.

I was in the same position as you and, even having read the manual before starting, I had to go back to it and read that section again because it took a while to even be able to afford the infrastructure to 'train' the crusade marker. Annoying that this takes 4 years as it is.

Ludens has given you a good reply but one thing it says in the manual which he missed is that you may have to drop the crusade marker on the target province twice. First time, as he said, is to 'declare' the crusade and you have to pay the contribution to the pope. Once it has started you then have the choice of plotting its route manually, like Ludens explained, or you can drop it on the target province again and then leave it to make its own way to the destination. 'Fire and forget' as they say.

Considering the potential for the vacuum-cleaner effect it has on your best troops at your borders, perhaps it is better to stick to manual guidance at first, in order to maintain some degree of control? I haven't yet had time to experiment to i) see how good the auto guidance works or ii) whether you get the opportunity to guide it manually for a few seasons then pick it up and drop it on the target province, once it is safely outside your territory and then let it do its own thing. Switching from one method to the other might not be allowed by the game. I dunno yet.

Then again, the agents do work in this manner and, if I gather right, so do army units. Say the training province is several moves from where you want the unit to be, you can drop it where you want it to go, the province goes yellow to show that move isn't possible in a single turn but you can then leave it to its own devices and not worry about forgetting to move it in a subsequent turn - say you saved off the game, shut down the computer for the night and had lost the thread of what you were doing when you next restart.

Now, the one and only crusade I launched so far wasn't a good choice of destination. I was hoping to suck up some of Germany and Spain's troop numbers by routing through them but I targeted the area adjacent to and east of Morocco. Lack of proper recon meant I wasn't aware the Spanish already had Morocco and by the time I got the crusade from Wales to Flanders (two moves), the Spanish had taken the target province, causing my crusade to disband. Rather annoying after the expense. However, the four free units of Order Foot came in handy for beefing up my border provinces. One of them even more so a few years later when I was subjected to an unprovoked attack by the HRE.... ;)

I've got another marker and hope for better luck next time.

No doubt this poll will be closed by the time I'm in a position to answer it but pencil me in for at least four per century, which would represent at least once per generation and thus within living memory of the previous one.

In which case... maybe leave a gap of 50 years if one goes particularly badly. ;)

[Ludens]

Ludens has given you a good reply but one thing it says in the manual which he missed is that you may have to drop the crusade marker on the target province twice. First time, as he said, is to 'declare' the crusade and you have to pay the contribution to the pope. Once it has started you then have the choice of plotting its route manually, like Ludens explained, or you can drop it on the target province again and then leave it to make its own way to the destination.

Thanks for pointing that out. I forgot it because I never use it. Auto-guidance is bad: I have seen crusades (none of mine fortunatly) going back and forth because a link of ships kept being broken and restored. Assassins on auto-guidance risk getting caught if one of the possible routes goes through enemy territory; the algoritm does not seem to take this into account. It just goes for (one of) the shortest route. Since I always manually keep track of crusades there is no need for it. The only times when I use it is when there is a large number of stacks or agents about.

You can decide to turn off auto guidance at any moment, but it can be a bit confusing because the stacks on autoguidance only start moving at the same moment the computer moves are seen.

[Procrustes]

Couple little things I could add about crusades: (1) Your king will take a big hit in influence if your crusade fails - may be enough to push you into a civil war. (2) A crusade will fail if you destroy the chapter house that built it. This gives you a good Achilles' heal to use against rival factions. (Wait 'till they have a crusade out of thier terratories, then raze the province that sent it.)

[Martok]

When I play as the Spanish (which is often), I usually launch multiple crusades at once, or at least in quick succession (depending on whether His Holiness has called for crusades against a specific faction).

My favorite strategy (when playing as Spain) is to first launch several successive crusades against the Almohads, thereby increasing both my lands and my king's influence. This also often gives me a "legitimate" excuse to take Portugal, as the Almos like to conquer them; so I get to liberate the Portuguese from their oppressive rule--all in the name of defending Christendom!

Following my conquest of the Iberian peninsula and the Caliphate, I generally spend 20-50 turns developing my kingdom--and most importantly, building up my trade routes and naval forces in the Mediterranean. Once I have done so, I usually launch 3-5 crusades to the Holy Land, depending on my current resources and how ambitious/greedy I'm feeling. I always take the Big Three for sure--Antioch, Tripoli, and Palestine--along with possibly Edessa and/or Syria as well, assuming I have the money and the manpower to pull it off.

Finally, I also usually keep a crusade or two "in reserve", so as to take advantage of any French excommunication, thus giving me the opportunity to steal Acquitaine and/or Tolouse.


I never put any of my kings in charge of a crusade anymore, regardless of which faction I'm playing (the same thing goes for jihads). I always end up dealing with too many loyalty/happiness issues if my faction leader is off galavanting for the glory of God/Allah. Putting princes in charge of crusades/jihads, however, can be a good way to give them some nice (or at least interesting) traits. A lot of them get some kind of Zealot or Believer trait. Sometimes their piety even shoots up without traits--simply sticking their unit in a Crusade marker can be enough!

[lugh]

For the second half of the Early Era, nearly all of my foreighn conquests have been by crusade, I take the Holy Land 4 very quickly though, as soon as I have a shipping line that will get me there in one turn. This campaighn (HRE) its been even easier as I seized Northern Italy (not the papal territory though) in the first few turns and Venice was already well built up, shipping line took maybe 25 years to establish, I raked in cash and had my Holy Land secure 10 years after that.
Now though, Venice churns out crusades, I have about six waiting to go and have most of North Africa and the middle east/turkey under my mailed fist.
The units you get are just too good to not take advantage of, If you crusade early, you end up with brilliant kinights long before the other christians have thier feudal knights, handy since theyre a bunch of infighting annoyances.