The Wheel of Time - Total War (for Rome)

[Myrddraal]

Hang on hang on...

I think we should at least keep the peasant archers, archers don't have to be trained very much before being sent in battle... But we could change the name to militia archers...

Did I miss something? Whats wrong with peasant archers as a name, they aren't proffessionals. the words 'We should at least keep the peasant archers' suggests that I missed you guys disscussing getting rid of units?

Also about changing the name of royal units. I like the idea of having Royal Armsmen etc. It fits the description:

House Guards:

Although when a lord or lady goes to war it is the House Armsmen who form the core of their retinue, in times of peace soldiers are still needed to carry out onerous, and often dangerous duties, such as putting down riots and revolts and hunting bandits in the trackless wilderness. This unglamorous duty falls to men known as House Guards, little better than mercenaries in uniform. Many House Guards are drawn from the lower walks of life, most having been, before their recruitment, merchant's guards or even bandits themselves. However, amongst their ranks can also be found men who have retired from the House Armsmen due to old age or serious injury. These men are though, well-seasoned fighters, accustomed to skirmishing and small-scale engagements. However, their poor, ageing equipment, lack of proper armour, lack of discipline and experience of full-scale battle means that they are outclassed by regular battlefield soldiers.

House Arsmen:

Although nations are ruled by kings and queens, the land within them is divided into the estates of noble houses. Some of these, such as house Bryne in Andor are very small in size, but others, such as House Damodred in Cairhein own vast estates with huge revenues. Whatever their size, every House has a standing army of House Armsmen, and as vassals of the throne must contribute significant numbers of them to the Royal armies- These soldiers are well equipped, well trained professionals, disciplined and accustomed to large scale conflict. Their heavy armour, large shields and skill with their shortswords allows them to defeat lesser warriors such as peasantry, militia and pikemen.

Royal armsmen

When a monarch comes to power, he or she will want to ensure military superiority over arty contenders to the throne, namely other major houses. With this in mind monarchs usually create their own private armies drawn from the ranks of their House Armsmen. These men receive the best equipment, training and, crucially, wages. The fact that they are drawn from trusted House Armsmen combined with their excellent pay ensures their loyalty and a monarch will be certain to keep them close at hand in the eventuality of unrest or evil war.

Also whats wrong with having units called Mounted Nobles? They existed in MTW and I personally think are a good representation of the books.

[Andreas]

Hang on hang on...

Did I miss something? Whats wrong with peasant archers as a name, they aren't proffessionals. the words 'We should at least keep the peasant archers' suggests that I missed you guys disscussing getting rid of units?

Black_draen wondered if we really should have them, and he have a point in that when you recruit a peasant, you give him at least some traing and he becomes militia.

Also about changing the name of royal units. I like the idea of having Royal Armsmen etc. It fits the description:

House Guards:


House Arsmen:


Royal armsmen

Are there house guards too^^ Nver saw them.

What wrong in toyal armsmen is that the royal troops are the specific uinits. I must say that from my point of view, the troops serving the king of Illian is the Companions, the Andoran queen have her Queens Guards and so on. Too add another royal armsmen seems... wrong. I will do the house guards now anyway.

Also whats wrong with having units called Mounted Nobles? They existed in MTW and I personally think are a good representation of the books.

Hmmm yes maybe we could have the mounted nobles, I counted them as royal... but they aren't I realize now.

[Myrddraal]

I don't know really, I personally think that the Royal Unit (i.e. Companions) serve whoever is monarch. The idea of the Royal Armsmen is that the ruler reinforces his own house, to secure his own position. You know the idea of each house providing their armsmen to the national army? Well Royal Armsmen are just those who are controlled directly by the Ruler, and so have better equiment etc.

[Black_Draen]

About the peasants; I believe many mods follow the Rome/Medieval set-up without thinking on it. But how realistic is it with peasant units at all (even if they are archers)? If someone fights in a war he is not a peasant but a warrior, or as in this case, a militia-soldier.

Andreas: Do you mind if I balance around with Shienar a bit? Yesterday I runned a test against a Shadow-army and they rode them down killing 1500 trollocks and darkfriend, losing 32 men.

[Myrddraal]

Have I got a copy of the stats? If not, can I have them?

By the way, I think that Trolloc stats should be very good, better than average troops, but they should have very low moral. The way to destroy a Trolloc army should be to break its moral. This would suit the books greatly as Trollocs are very good fighters, but if their general gets killed, or if they think they might not win, they are cowards at heart.

[Myrddraal]

Oh yeah sorry about the huge delay, but here is one of the files I've got, the others are too big to upload where I am now, but at the moment:

Region Names

Same username and password

[Black_Draen]

Myrddraal: Sure, do you want just the unit-stats or should I send all the work that I have merged into the Battle-Test this far? The Battle-Test will soon be done, could need a few more models and unit-textures. I'll also add some more 2d-graphics - changing some more symbols. It will probably end at about 2-6 mb.

This far Shadow have lost all my test-battles against the Borderlanders - all battles have been lost with the Trollocks breaking and running. I'm tweaking the Trollocks attack-values and lowering the defense of several borderland units to give the Shadow a fighting-chance


atm

Dha'vol Band
Very low morale -> not led by a Myrddraal, horde-formation
Good attack but weak defense
Very cost-effective (as long as they don't run)

Dha'vol Fist
Almost Good Morale -> led by a Myrddraal, square-formation
a little better attack but same weak defense as band
Cost-effective

Armoured Dha'vol
Better morale than fist, led by a Myrddraal and moving in square-formation
Very good attack and acceptable defense (better armour and equpiment)Cost-effective

[Andreas]

It's okay if you tweak the borderlands units, I didn't really know what to compare them with at that moment, but remeber that tweaking the price is also a very good way to do it. Just let me see them after, so I can see if it's something I wouldn't want to be changed. And lower the armour valus in first hans, so they get vulnurable for side and back attacks, defence second and shield last.

Today I have worked with constructing a tech tree for arad doamn, and the result was this: http://utbildning.mellerud.se/~s05/araddoman.htm

The colors is by tha way those appearing on the camp map. There are some questions in the bototm layer, that would be good if someone could answer.


And Myrddraal: After making that tech tree i agree that Royal Armsmen should be included, they fit in.

edit: Try to give them some sort of ranged troops, mybe small bands with ap bows. That would make up for a lot of problems, I think. They are very vulnurable to ap, as I the story I sent to you on msn proves.

edit2: I might be able to convince a friend of mine to play against me to balance it a bit too tomorrow. I'm not sure he will accept though, he likes infantry and I like cavalry and arrows, and usually I win with very much... but maybe;)

[Myrddraal]

Could I have the whole lot pls Draen. I'm sorry about the website, its causing more trouble than good, I put the current files on the old server. I think it would be best to move back to it, its slower, but it doesn't fail as much. I will try to update everything.

Andreas, I had a tech tree for the MTW version of WoT - TW I made. I'll upload that if I can.

BTW, I'm new irc, how do you work it? (I must sound like an ignorant idiot )

[Myrddraal]

Oh and I forgot: Did the region names work alright? I've done some more work on the map I will upload it soon along with the new UI I've been working on. But I've had some problems, its seems that with the edited UI, the areas where black should be transparent are not working... It just comes up as a black splodge. I made a new egg timer which is the wheel of time turning, but it looks awful with a black square around it...

[Andreas]

Could I have the whole lot pls Draen. I'm sorry about the website, its causing more trouble than good, I put the current files on the old server. I think it would be best to move back to it, its slower, but it doesn't fail as much. I will try to update everything.

Andreas, I had a tech tree for the MTW version of WoT - TW I made. I'll upload that if I can.

BTW, I'm new irc, how do you work it? (I must sound like an ignorant idiot )

Do so, it might help with names and so. I still will go for personlizing the tech though.

[Khan48]

I'm a fan of the WoT and i just wanted to say great work and i can't wait for the mod to be finished. I like the units you guys have come up with but i was thinking if it is possible to create a unit similiar to the ronin or whatever it was called from shogun. The one man unit that slaughted fools, and name it a blademaster. I'll let you guys figure out the nation allegiance and crap like that. Keep up the good work and don't quit, I'm looking forward to it too much.

[Khan48]

Sorry again so soon but i just found this online http://www.memod.co.uk/http://www.memod.co.uk/
U might wanna try and get permission.

[CrownOfSwords]

Yes they sadly closed down memod, because they thought it would compete with their own upcoming games. Yet there are not upcoming WOT games for us to compete with, and I highly doubt Robert Jordan is against our mod in anyway im sure he is happy to have such devoted fans.

Also I got Adobe Photoshop playing around here is a preview of the quality I will be able to put into future concept art. I present an unfinished Sheniarian -

Keep up the good work team, looking forward to playing this beta!

[Black_Draen]

Still we should get permission - before our mod gets good enough to become a threat...

[Andreas]

Khan48: There must be at least 6 units in each, and the unit number varies depending on the players setting. It's sad though, since if not we would have been able to create a warder and a Aes Sedai.

Myrddraal: I send the files to you later, I just need to take the flaming ability for crossbows away. I will send you: Arad Daman tech tree in webapge layout, finnishe quotes, faction names and colors, units. We need someone to write the small faction descriptions. I suck at coming up with such stuff.

[Myrddraal]

I'll write the faction descriptions. Thx for the Files Andreas. Draen sent me the battle test, just send me the stuff not included in that.

I've checked now with two other WoT mods. One of them is quite advanced. Neither have permission, and both said you don't need it.

[Black_Draen]

ok, I guess we simply can hope they won't care about us

I'll continue with the custom-battle now, right now I'm retexturing a few units; for example the Myrddraals and some of the darkfriends. I'm also finishing the last symbols - TheDevil seems to have disappeared so I'll complete his symbols myself.

btw; can anyone do the unit-descriptions for Saldea's and Shienar's units? Are there any to the MTW -mod?

[Andreas]

I could try making some of the unit descrs, at least for the saldeans. I have made some horse textures, I'll send them to you some day soon.

[Myrddraal]

I still haven't got round to trying the battle test...
Life is too short...

BTW, how are the models going praetor?

[Orb]

The new website just doesn't seem to work. Can anyone else get onto it? If not it may be better to revert to the old one. We need a reliable website.

[CrownOfSwords]

Alright ive played the battle test, here are my notes:
-Trolloc model sucks, they have black mail, change the head design, make them a bit taller and get rid of that foolish mace thing. They should have either a large axe or large sword depending on the unit.
-The myrdraal need to have overlapping plate armor, give the face some features, give them one longer sword instead of two and they should be ok. Also we need a unit of them on horseback.
-Royal Sheniarian lancers should have a bit of a higher attack, I like the high defense allows them to charge into the fight and stay in melee. Should have longer lances though.
-Should be some Sheniarian footmen, two handed swords.
-Should be some Saldean footmen, mediumly armored with swords.

Also I dont believe its that unabalanced, maybe weaken trollocs a bit because they wreak havoc unless you scare them, only easy way in this build to beat them is to just demoralize the crap out of them. Mydraal should have good moral, doesnt mention them trying to run away in the books. I think the attack on the Shienarian units should be a bit better, same with defense. These are elite troops some of the best of the borderlands. Keep in mind that trollocs are cheap and quick to make, so the AI will be able to throw around huge armies of them just like the books. And the Borderlands have better troops but take little longer to train (2 turns instead of 1).

-CoS

[Myrddraal]

Hang about CoS, the trolloc model is the only model we've got as of yet, so don't critisise it too much. I know the mace is way too big and unrealistic, but I've already said were going to get rid of it. Anyway, if you take another look at the Trolloc, it is wearing black mail.

The myrddraal is not even a new model, its an existing one from the game for Arcani (sp?).

I haven't really checked the stats out, but one thing I must insist on is this: the myrddraal unit must be on horseback.

[Orb]

A question, how advanced is the mod so far? I have not been able to get onto the new website and the files for the old one have not been updated since january. Myrdraal, can you put the new files on the old site?

[Myrddraal]

Sure thing. I will do that tonight. Sorry about that orb. The only new thing that there is so far is the battle test. The website isn't working, I only got the battle test through Black_Draen through MSN. The work I've done on the campaign map and the UI I haven't uploaded yet, but I have uploaded the region names to the old site. I'll try and update the website a bit now....

[Myrddraal]

I can't think off the top of my head, I'm tired so please don't blame me, but is this everyone in the team:

Me
Andreas
Black_Draen
CrownOfSwords
Praetor
NaeBlis
Orb
Sephriel

Are these people in the team
TheDevil003 - I know I offered you a place, do you want it?
_Martini - single time poster, asked if he could be in the team, promised if not results, at least effort, then vanished...

[Black_Draen]

Alright ive played the battle test, here are my notes:
-Trolloc model sucks, they have black mail, change the head design, make them a bit taller and get rid of that foolish mace thing. They should have either a large axe or large sword depending on the unit.
-The myrdraal need to have overlapping plate armor, give the face some features, give them one longer sword instead of two and they should be ok. Also we need a unit of them on horseback.
-Royal Sheniarian lancers should have a bit of a higher attack, I like the high defense allows them to charge into the fight and stay in melee. Should have longer lances though.
-Should be some Sheniarian footmen, two handed swords.
-Should be some Saldean footmen, mediumly armored with swords.

Also I dont believe its that unabalanced, maybe weaken trollocs a bit because they wreak havoc unless you scare them, only easy way in this build to beat them is to just demoralize the crap out of them. Mydraal should have good moral, doesnt mention them trying to run away in the books. I think the attack on the Shienarian units should be a bit better, same with defense. These are elite troops some of the best of the borderlands. Keep in mind that trollocs are cheap and quick to make, so the AI will be able to throw around huge armies of them just like the books. And the Borderlands have better troops but take little longer to train (2 turns instead of 1).

ok, thanks for the comments.

CoS: I'll take a look at what you posted - Myrddraal is hard to fix (see below) and I can't fix much with the trollocks either. The other stuff I'll look at tomorrow or late this evening.

Myrddraal: In CoS version I've also changed some textures - of for example darkfriends and the arcani-model. I think we should keep the Arcani-myrddraals until we have someone who can do a proper horse-model (and do they really ride horses that much? I thought they mainly transported themselves through the shadow?)

btw, should we keep the spear-wielding borderlanders? If so I change textures so they look a bit better :-)

[Orb]

Great, I'll get the files now. The halfmen are horsemen most of the time. Besides, the shadow could use some heavy horsemen.

[Andreas]

-Royal Sheniarian lancers should have a bit of a higher attack, I like the high defense allows them to charge into the fight and stay in melee. Should have longer lances though.
-Should be some Sheniarian footmen, two handed swords.
-Should be some Saldean footmen, mediumly armored with swords.

Ok, I do not know if black_draen has changed the stats much, but it's like this: The Royal Shienarans have a very powerful charge as first attack(and the model is just the cataphract from vanilla), but to show that their lances is long, the attack they have with the first weapon is weak. You have to switch (alt in standard) to secondary attack, so that they use their swords. The sword attack is about the same as that of the Fal Daran.

And no, I do not think we should have any footmen. These two nations are horse nations, and you must use the cavalry in the best way to make this a strength. The thought behind the Fal Daran cav. is that they are the soldiers you use to take a charge, they have defence enough to do that, and you have the borderguards as foot. We never saw any Shienarans soldiers on foot, except when knocked out of their saddles, the same with Saldeans. They must often move fast, and that can be done with horses. I gave the Saldea the archers to be used to draw the enemy, but you cannot think that you can use normal fontal tactics with these units.

[CrownOfSwords]

OK sounds reasonable. And no Myddraal are always on horseback in the books, except once in the Stone and once mentioned in a Tavern, I believe they should be on horseback without a foot unit. Also I think Myddraal should have the inspire friendly unit ability, they dont really inspire them in the books but frighten them into doing what is needed eh same thing. We are just going to need someone to make us a nice trolloc model, also ive noticed that all the infantry in the game run damn damn fast, this should only be so with the trollocs. If you have any updates please send them to me via email thanks -CoS