Limiting Members?

[cstuart]

I have been silent on the forum for a while, i enjoy the information and insight into STW, MTW, and the upcoming RTW. I have found that the mods for MTW are outstanding (NTW and HTW), i would not have found them unless i had not read it here. I have never been one to support limiting one person over another from joining into an exchange of information or ideas. Even after reading the post about the flea. Paradox Plaza the developers of Hearts of Iron do not do this, they ban you for stupidity after giving warnings. I know my two cents are not worth that much but this forum is important, i hope you do not let this develop into a social club for limited membership.

[Gregoshi]

Hi cstuart. Thanks for finally speaking up. As you might imagine, you are not the first to comment on our membership system. Fear not, it is not in place to limit membership or to make us an elite "club". It serves a couple of purposes.

First, it funnels most new patrons through this forum which is indeed an "entrance hall". It is a focal point for new patrons to meet each other and for existing members to meet the new patrons. The idea is that this is a less intimitating environment for the new people since many others here are new as well. It also gives the staff and veterans a place to meet you, help you, get you comfortable with our forums.

Second, it allows us to weed out the spammers and troublemakers from ruining our members' experiences in the main forums. Our members appreciate the level of interaction and the friendly nature of the discussions that the screening process promotes. Most troublemakers simply don't have the patience and can't be bothered with going through the "junior patron" routine.

The classic example of why we have this system was from a few years ago when there was a thread discussing gun control in what is now call the Tavern. Word of this thread got out and our forum was invaded by non-gamers with strong opinions on gun control. The Tavern was not a pleasant forum to read at that time. There was lots of long posts spewing out slanted, flaming political rhetoric - it was not a pretty sight. Under our current system, these "outsiders" could not do that and would probably not wait around for promotion to get access to the Tavern.

The only real "limit" on membership is completely in your control. Show the Entrance Hall mods that you can interact well with others (no flaming or spamming) and there will be no problem in becoming a full member of these forums. So, get involved with some of the discussions in the Entrance Hall or start your own if you'd like. The moderators can only get to know you if you post (again, don't spam).

[KillerKadugen]

Trust me when I say that you don't want to get involved in the tavern backroom at all. The front room is cool, but the backroom is a dangerous, treacherous place to say anything. Other than that, the rest of this site is an awfully nice place to discuss some of the best games of all time. Post responsibly, and the moderators will notice you in no time.

[Adrian II]

I hope you do not let this develop into a social club for limited membership.

CStuart, the upside of the system is that both serious posts and hilarious discussions between lovers of the game aren't lost in a sea of flames, spam and outsider junk. If I got the idea that the moderators were excluding people for the wrong reasons (or topics, for that matter, for instance if some of the moderators would be too close to CA or some other business to allow frank discussion of their products) I bet I'd be out of here well before you. However, I believe the opposite is true. Just look at the way two Argentinian Juniors were received with open arms even though they started posting in Spanish, with some of the moderators going out of their way to help them solve technical problems due to their living out on the chaco and struggling with outdated video cards and demented phonelines. On other sites moderators are a pest, on this board I couldn't think of a better recommendation.

[Commander ElTee]

I like the system, it makes for more inteligent discussions in my opinion, hopefully i will be promoted soon.

[ah_dut]

welcome CSstuart to the org

[Sociopsychoactive]

Also,

with the current system most spammers, flamers or others who don't want to play nicely are left at the door, but the moderaters also allow and even encourage open and frank discussion on a HUGE variety of subjects.

On other forums, even in the off topic boards, you could easily get banned for politics or other opinions, here you can discuss them in the designated forum without worrying about the backlash, and more importantly without offending others.

I have been a member of many and varied forums, and most use a post count system that encourages spammers, with a 'point out the problem' system of dealing with them. Here, spamming has no benifit and the moderaters read the bulk of posts that are put down, and have contact with many of the regular posters.

All in all, this system works, anyone can read any forum, any person with sense and patience can reply in any forum (save one) after a suitable waiting period, which is often spent reading other threads to prevent asking questions that have been previously answered and getting to know the people in the entrance hall.

You'll also find that many, many people still hang out in the EH after getting promoted, answering questions, helping newbies and generally being nice people.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

The classic example of why we have this system was from a few years ago when there was a thread discussing gun control in what is now call the Tavern. Word of this thread got out and our forum was invaded by non-gamers with strong opinions on gun control. The Tavern was not a pleasant forum to read at that time. There was lots of long posts spewing out slanted, flaming political rhetoric - it was not a pretty sight. Under our current system, these "outsiders" could not do that and would probably not wait around for promotion to get access to the Tavern.

Seriously?! Kongamato told me about that, but I assumed it was a joke...

[Gregoshi]

He wasn't joking BKS, nor was I. Most of the trouble was from the pro-gun side if my memory serves me right. As I recall, they would start new threads as they came, so there were several gun control threads going at once all with the same rhetoric and arguements, almost like they were cutting & pasting stuff out of NRA brochures. I'm not siding with or mean to pick on one side over the other, but the pro-gun side made a bigger "splash" in that incident. Maybe another old timer can correct me if I'm wrong. The major thing to come out of that whole mess is that I don't think there was anyone around at the time that wanted to see a repeat of it.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

Crazee. I wonder if Tosa still has some of the old threads from that time archived, they might make interesting reading.

[Colovion]

You'll also find that many, many people still hang out in the EH after getting promoted, answering questions, helping newbies and generally being nice people.

true, some days I just check the Entrance Hall and the Colosseum.

I had never before dealt with a system like this when I joined but after the initial frusteration I find it now to create a very unique environment. I visit TWC every so often and notice the wild amounts of spam, hostility, and general chaos that occurs when a game forum reaches the climax of the game being released - then I come here and it's rather calm.

[ah_dut]

Also don't you tell me you can't post in other places there's the post office

[cstuart]

Well i hope for a long relationship with the forum. i now have RTW and enjoy it. I am not one to worry about being a member, i enjoy reading the threads and learning from them. You do keep a clean forum, which i like. Well enough, i have to get back to RTW.

[Morindin]

I think it's a brilliant system (as I stated in my first post here).
I tend to avoid the "entrance hall" style forums and go right for the juice so it did take me a while to figure out why I couldn't post tho

[Morindin]

I don't like it how you can't edit your posts though. I don't really see any reason for this restriction, infact, it just increases spam. (I would have included this text in my earlier post if I was able to edit).

Quite frequently you'll post something and then remember something else, or find a spelling mistake, etc.

[Maeda Toshiie]

I don't like it how you can't edit your posts though. I don't really see any reason for this restriction, infact, it just increases spam. (I would have included this text in my earlier post if I was able to edit).

Quite frequently you'll post something and then remember something else, or find a spelling mistake, etc.

Like your double posts above?

Anyway, .com is an example of a standard open forum with its fair share of spammers and lamers. The mods have to resort to strict and ruthless moderation (not that I mind myself) in order to keep the place in a step above chaos.

Ahh... every forum has its history and legends, flamewars and goats.

[Gregoshi]

The edit restriction on Junior Patrons is intentional. Remember, we want to see how well you "play" with others. The no editing will catch hot heads who write flaming posts since they will not be able to go back and erase the evidence of their deed. It may be inconvenient for you, but it is a good tool for the moderators. To get around the no edit for the vast majority of the good Junior Patrons, use the "preview" feature before you submit your post. You'll only be bothered with the Junior Patron restrictions for a short time. If you like the relaxed, friendly nature of our patrons and good content/discussions of main Org forums, I hope you'll agree it is a small sacrifice you make to keep them a good place to be.

[Del Arroyo]

I personally am looking forward to participating in some of the political discussion here. In other forae I've frequented there is no discussion, just the same characters yelling the same crap and spawning new threads until everything you want to read is on the third page.

I mean, if you can learn how to move and dodge and win in a place like that, it can be kind of fun. For a while. But eventually you start to wonder-- what have I learned here?

Of coruse, it's not just the Junior Patron system. The Org was always better moderated than 99% of the forums out there-- a lot of it is just diligence and an established culture of civility.

DA

[Quietus]

Hey CStuart,

You'll have to wear that "shackle" for a while. I wore it for 17 days myself
And I'm a long time lurker too.

I like answering stuff in Entrance Hall, Colovion. A lot of these MTW questions come from players who have never played STW before.

[SpencerH]

I pretty much only post here and at poly. Both sites work well with different methods of maintaining order (the patron system here and tougher mods at poly) but I find this site to be more 'flame-free' (which has good and bad aspects to it).