Difference between Hastati and Princeps?

[MikeC]

It appears so far to me that Princeps represent a clear replacement to Hastati. Is that correct? Or is there a job that Hastati can do once you start building Princeps? Can someone clarify what heavy and light attack class means?

Also is there any good roman anti-cav infantry early game. I am having trouble dealing with some Macedonian armies that are heavily loaded with lancers. I hire greek Merc hoplites but there aren't enough out there to satisfy my needs.

[Sinner]

I can't answer in game terms since RTW isn't here in the UK yet, but in real world terms the Hastati and Princeps were effectively the same except that the former were the younger men, inexperienced compared with the older veterans who made up the ranks of the Princeps.

The third line of troops in a Manipular Legion were the Triarii, the oldest veterans & armed with spears instead of sword & javelin, so it's the Triarii that you need to build to give yourself an anti-cavalry force.

[Underhand]

Also, on average, since they were older men, the principes were richer than the hastati, and since the pre-marian legionary had to pay for his own equipment, would thus have had better quality armour and more of it.

[MikeC]

I can't answer in game terms since RTW isn't here in the UK yet, but in real world terms the Hastati and Princeps were effectively the same except that the former were the younger men, inexperienced compared with the older veterans who made up the ranks of the Princeps.

The third line of troops in a Manipular Legion were the Triarii, the oldest veterans & armed with spears instead of sword & javelin, so it's the Triarii that you need to build to give yourself an anti-cavalry force.

Triarii are fairly high on the tech tree.

[X6_861]

In RTW, hastati are only slightly weaker than Principes

Their melee, missile, charge, and shield strength are identical. The only difference is that Principes have an armor rating of 7 compared to the hastati's armor rating of 5, and Principes total defense rating of 16 compared to the Hastati's total defense rating of 14.

Oh yeah, and Principes cost about 40 gold more than Hastati. That and you won't be able to train principes till at least 30 to 40 turns into the game, at least the way I played. So the hastati are pretty much the backbone of your Roman army for awhile.

[lars573]

^that's true for the first 30 turns for me. My Roman armies were made up of hastati velities and equites.

[zentuit]

^that's true for the first 30 turns for me. My Roman armies were made up of hastati velities and equites.

And while my new infantry are principes, its my hastati that have the experience chevrons so I'm not disbanding them.

I've been praying for the wandering (rebel) brigands that periodically show up to come by so I can bloody some principes.

[Salazar]

I dont know if it exactly fit's in this Thread but i couldn't find another one and didn't want to open a new so i ask it here
Does it make sense to have your pre Marian Legion built up like it was historically, so with Velites Hastati Principes and Triarii as the Backbone in checkerboard Formation and with supporting Equites? I mean i tried in the Demo but as i dont know what has changed to the Full Version and what Unit's cost's are i dont know how practibable it is in the Full Game.

[zentuit]

I dont know if it exactly fit's in this Thread but i couldn't find another one and didn't want to open a new so i ask it here
Does it make sense to have your pre Marian Legion built up like it was historically, so with Velites Hastati Principes and Triarii as the Backbone in checkerboard Formation and with supporting Equites? I mean i tried in the Demo but as i dont know what has changed to the Full Version and what Unit's cost's are i dont know how practibable it is in the Full Game.

Well in the Campaign it'll be 30-50 turns before you'll get Principes. Until then your armies will be velites, hastati and equites (oh and war dogs which are expensive - I haven't bothered).

You have town watch available too but I was unsure how they would perform in battle so I have them as garrisons far from frontier. I was hoping that since they have spears they would be ok against cavalry but their descriptions don't say they are. I think Romans will have to hire spears for a long time when fighting heavy cavalry using factions.

My gut feeling is that by the time I can make triarii I won't have alot of hastati from merging combat losses. But they will probably have quite a few experience chevrons.

[Lemur]

(oh and war dogs which are expensive - I haven't bothered)

Come on, Centurion, what's not to like about war dogs? Yes, they cost a bit to build, but once you have them they're cheap, cheap, cheap on maintenance. You just have to feed them some peasents once in a while.

And what's not to like about sending a herd of angry Rottweilers coursing into light infantry? If only for the laughs, it's worth it.

For what it's worth, my basic garrison these days is four city guards and one unit of angry dogs. I haven't had a chance to kill rebellious citizens with my hounds yet, but I'm waiting. I'm waiting and ready.

[ah_dut]

Come on, Centurion, what's not to like about war dogs? Yes, they cost a bit to build, but once you have them they're cheap, cheap, cheap on maintenance. You just have to feed them some peasents once in a while.

And what's not to like about sending a herd of angry Rottweilers coursing into light infantry? If only for the laughs, it's worth it.

For what it's worth, my basic garrison these days is four city guards and one unit of angry dogs. I haven't had a chance to kill rebellious citizens with my hounds yet, but I'm waiting. I'm waiting and ready.

EVIL.... BUT COOL

[econ21]

I think in the game Hastati are classified as light infantry whereas Princeps are heavy. This may affect the combat resolution in some subtle ways (rock-scissors-paste). For example, based on the demo, some folk said that Hastati coped better with elephants. May be the strategy guide will elucidate on this?

[Ulstan]

Hastati count as light infantry if you move the mouse over them.

Princeps I think are heavy.

I think Hastati are hardier than princeps (go longer w/out getting fatigued).

Given that princeps are more expensive and have maybe one more armor point or something like that, I'm just buildling the hastati :)

"(oh and war dogs which are expensive - I haven't bothered)"

They are expensive, but they seem to 'retrain' for free.

I've had a couple battles where all the dogs died, but the handlers lived, and they somehow procured all new dogs for me and I had a full complement again.

[Cennyan]

and you won't be able to train principes till at least 30 to 40 turns into the game, at least the way I played

I took the island off the west coast of Italy (Would be crete, can't think of the game now now though) near the begining of the game and was attacked a couple times by the Carthagians. As retribution, I sent an army into Carthage around turn 15 and the city just south of it in Turn 17. Both cities where teched enough to be able to build Principes and some other nice troops. I've held both cities for the past 40 turns or so without expanding the empire further into africa and haven't be counter-attacked once.

[Thoros of Myr]

The Roman army is designed for you to send in Hastati on the front lines and then smash everyone in with the Princpes that do the real meatgrinding, at that point, against a tough foe, the hastati might have routed or you might move them on to the next target while the princeps clean up. When you have Triarii they form the 3rd rank behind the princepes to make sure nothing gets through and keep horses from hitting your backside. It's best to use them in tandem rather then one or the other against worthy foes.

[Quietus]

on Large Units setting:

Velites upkeep is 170 denari. Too expensive for what they do.

Wardog upkeep is only 50. Two turns to build.

Town Watch cost only 150 denari and 100 upkeep. So they are a great fodder supplement to the Hastati/Principes backbone. Nobody uses them?

Principes last a little longer than Hastati especially against the tough Cavalry like the Numidian Cavalry the Carthaginians hire.

[camulos]

I've had a couple battles where all the dogs died, but the handlers lived, and they somehow procured all new dogs for me and I had a full complement again.

I've had this happen too. The trick is to keep the handlers in a safe place. Once you let the dogs go they aint comin back anyways.

[Arakasi]

I mentioned this in another thread, but since the handlers are on their own after the dogs go and seem to be the center of the area for the unit, would killing the handlers do something to the dogs that are already out? I'll have to test that.