Sea trading routes?

[Dorkus]

Trade is not properly explained in the manual. It's apparently not like MTW -- you don't need a string of ships to establish a route.

But I can't determine what other conditions are necessary. I have trade relations with the other roman factions, yet I can't get my provinces (with docks) to obtain trade income from sea trade....

Anyone have a better understanding of this? I only just started the game.

[Dorkus]

Here's the setup. I'm playing as the julii, and for wahtever reason in the first round i have sea trade between arretium/etruria and carthage.

Second round this trade disappears.

I send my diplomat to carthage and bargain for trade rights. I have 3 ships in a chain between carthage and arretium, but I can't get another trade route estalbihsed. Lilybaeum, another docked carthagian province, similarly does not create any trade.

On the other hand, I do now have a route between capua and arretium for some reason.

so what gives?

this game is really poorly documented...

[Tamur]

This is Tamur's "as far as I know" answer, may be wrong here...

1) Finding an existing trade route

You can trace trade routes from ports you control to destination docks via the blue dotted lines on the campaign map. If there are no lines going to/from your dock to the docks of another faction, you have no overseas trade from that port.

2) Creating a trade route

You must have tradeable resources in the province with the port, and you must have bargained for trade rights from the faction you want to trade with. One note: if the Senate or another Roman faction goes to war with a faction that you have trade rights with, you'll lose the trading rights and the route --- the curse of playing a Roman faction. It appears that you don't need ships linking the ports, but I'm not sure exactly WHY it decides to draw the routes it does.

I'm very much looking forward to playing an "independent" faction so my diplomatic maneuverings don't get messed up by the flippin' Scipii, who it seems are attacking everyone, or by the Senate who order me to attack a faction I've got a nice trade business going with.

[Dorkus]

Well, i can't even set up trade with other roman factions either. I'm sending ships up and down the coastlines of italy, many of the provinces have docks, and yet I still have only one trade route -- to Capua.

Gah. So much filler in the manul, and they don't have time to explain something as important as trade?

[Dorkus]

Figured it out.

You can only have 1 trade route for each upgrade of the port.

Didn't realize it because I never built a port -- was using the one I had from the start.

[Sir Robin]

This one caught me to.

Check the building descriptions.

It looks like land based trade routes work the same way.

While still important trading has become more universal.

If I have been reading the screens correctly it appears that Roman factions automatically trade with the other Roman factions. At least it looks this way on land.

[Tamur]

Ah... ha! Interesting, will have to read those descriptions more thoroughly. Thanks for the info, it was mystifying how the routes were chosen.

[andrewt]

You can only trade with neighboring provinces on land routes, at least I've only been able to trade with neighboring provinces.

I don't know the distance possible with sea routes but each province can only have 1 trading partner with each port upgrade.

[Blodrast]

well, if you can only have 1 more with each port upgrade, does it mean that you can have at most 5 routes from one port ?
And what if, let's say, you can have 2 routes but have treaties with 3 or 4 factions ? which 2 of those possible routes are chosen ? Can you decide which ones to pick ?

[Dorkus]

well, if you can only have 1 more with each port upgrade, does it mean that you can have at most 5 routes from one port ?
And what if, let's say, you can have 2 routes but have treaties with 3 or 4 factions ? which 2 of those possible routes are chosen ? Can you decide which ones to pick ?

game always picks the highest value sea routes, so negotiating trade rights is almost worthless.

Max 3 trading routes per city. 1 for each level of port. Guess this is more realistic but was much more fun in MTW building a supremely powerful trading empire. As things stand, you only need to find 3 good trading provinces for ALL of your ports for the entire game.

at this point i don't see any use for diplomats at all.

[Blodrast]

thank you, Dorkus. Well, I don't necessarily find it more realistic, but it's a moot point.

As things stand, you only need to find 3 good trading provinces for ALL of your ports for the entire game.

That's pretty bad as far as game balance goes... and it kinda kills the realism that was gained from the limitation of 3 routes per port.

Uhm, as far as diplomats go, I managed to do a relatively cool thing with one of mine, I offered "maps" to some barbarians for almost 1k denarii...a good deal for me at that time seeing as how I was constantly losing money, and I could care less if they knew the tiny strip of land that I'd explored so far...

[RedKnight]

Dorkus, do you mean we should do something like, send ships overseas to try to find other ports to trade with, which have good trades goods? Then do they have to hover there (or maybe send a diplomat) to have trade with a particular destination? And, do we have to have trade rights?

I'm very confused - any help appreciated!

It's clear that RTW has a much more constrained trade and building arrangement than MTW - but hey that's cool, you could abuse the heck out of MTW sea trade.

[Dorkus]

Dorkus, do you mean we should do something like, send ships overseas to try to find other ports to trade with, which have good trades goods? Then do they have to hover there (or maybe send a diplomat) to have trade with a particular destination? And, do we have to have trade rights?

I'm very confused - any help appreciated!

It's clear that RTW has a much more constrained trade and building arrangement than MTW - but hey that's cool, you could abuse the heck out of MTW sea trade.

you don't have to do anything. the game will automatically find the province that has the best available trade. When you build the 2nd level port, the game will find the second best route.

And since you can have a max of 3 trade routes (to 3 provinces), opening factions to trade seems rather pointless.

[RedKnight]

what's the purpose of using a diplomat for 'trade rights', then? if you could explain. Thanks!

[Colovion]

That's rather lame - 3 max trade routes.... but I guess teh trade in MTW was way over the top

Anyone know if a province in the middle of your empire can trade with a province not directly bordering that one? I always hated the lame land trading in MTW and had hoped that they woudl have set it up a little better. SO far it is better - but could be improved.

[Dorkus]

That's rather lame - 3 max trade routes.... but I guess teh trade in MTW was way over the top

Anyone know if a province in the middle of your empire can trade with a province not directly bordering that one? I always hated the lame land trading in MTW and had hoped that they woudl have set it up a little better. SO far it is better - but could be improved.

MTW trade was imbalanced and unrealistic (my empires generally got > 90% of their income from sea trade), so the change was probably necessary.

I personally would have preferred a little less automation to trade, but i'm sure opinions will vary on this. Not everyone likes trade sims.

[KukriKhan]

From Junior Patron zentuit:

"According to the addendums to the manual, the purpose of Trading Rights is to increase the income.
"Trade Rights
Factions may trade with anyone they wish, however having specific rights to trade with another faction increase the income you get from trade."

I wonder if the purpose of showing the trading routes is to let you interdict another faction's trading sea lanes? Not just blockading the port but also out in the sea?"

[lars573]

Well I have noticed that when an enemy army/navy sits on a trade route the income in the destination cities drops by 50%. Blockading seems to cancel sea trade all together.

[oblivious maximus]

. Not everyone likes trade sims.

I do! Micro-managing trade is as much fun and micro-managing an army.It would have been great to have a fraction of the trading in Port Royale or Patrician.

[RedKnight]

Thanks, Kukri!

Perhaps once trade rights are established, the game then reviews what are the "best" trade destinations available, and hooks up accordingly. In other words, Trade Rights might (or might not) open up a better trade deal to you. Just a thought, until we understand it better!

[KukriKhan]

From Junior Patron Ulstan:

As things stand, you only need to find 3 good trading provinces for ALL of your ports for the entire game."

I don't know if it's that simple - I mean, the provinces will still only trade with provinces that have things they don't, or vice versa.

I don't think your port will trade with a port in a province that is adjacent to yours.

In fact, I think they may not trade with a province that is adjacent to another port of yours that you are already trading too - I think the province you ship to may then distribute some of the goods by land. I'm not quite sure of this though and will need to look back over the trading screens. At any rate, I'm pretty sure I've seen goods appear in the land trade that are only arriving in my province by sea trade.

Wish: that we could break up land imports/exports the way sea ones are broken up(which was a very cool feature!)

Also, some ports just don't seem to want to trade with anyone.

Example:

I control Dyrrhachiam, Bovianum, and tarentum.
Scipii controls ancona.
Thrace controls salona.

Dyrrhacium is exporting pottery to bovianum and ancona. It is importing timber from ancona and fur from bovianum.

Bovianum, is importing pottery from dyrrhacium (naturally) and exporting fur to dyrrhacium (naturally) and sending fur to salona.

But for tarentum, even with a level 2 port and purple dye (which is rare I would think) I don't see any sea imports exports. EVEN THOUGH there is a trade route going from the city up to ancona - but nothing listed at all.

No other trade route is on the map, even though they could fit in another. Does this have to do with the fact I don't have a governor there?