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Thread: A question for all the experts

  1. #1
    Member Member FearofFucy's Avatar
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    Just wannted to know what are the most common mistakes a newbie do???

    1.Dont know how to group...
    2.dont know how to attack or march in
    one formation....

    What else id there???

    The strength of my arms, the power of my soul, the valour of my men... These all belong to the Fear Clan. I'm ready to fight in the name of the clan.
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  2. #2

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    I am no expert, but I have had some battles turn ugly because of my lack of temperance.


  3. #3
    Member Member FearofFucy's Avatar
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    am looking for some more information about this for a website...
    The strength of my arms, the power of my soul, the valour of my men... These all belong to the Fear Clan. I'm ready to fight in the name of the clan.
    Shogun 2 on Facebook

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    Member Member NARF's Avatar
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    Splitting up forces (a mistake I use myself)
    Charging Archers into battle lol
    Using cavalry against spearmen
    What I meant to say with these, is that some dont even use these units they just charge them in, WITHOUT using other units first, and sometimes splitting up your forces can be a BIG mistake

    [This message has been edited by NARF (edited 08-02-2002).]

    [This message has been edited by NARF (edited 08-11-2002).]
    What is it that makes a complete stranger dive into an icy river to save a solid gold baby? Maybe we'll never know.

  5. #5
    Member Member Rokkaku's Avatar
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    splitting up forces is not a mistake, far from it!
    "U dare challenge the drunken ninjas!"
    Rokkaku of the Drunken Ninjas

  6. #6

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    Thanks Rokkaku, I was about to burst out my self.

    I think to split up forces, is a part of "the versatile army".
    Common Unreflected Drinking Only Smartens

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member LordTed's Avatar
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    Newbies dont put guns in ranks of 3 or 2, they have the tendancy to panic when cav is put on their flanks and if unbalanced enough they will rush you.

    and..charging archers into battles where your line is wearing thin can mean the difference narf.

    [This message has been edited by LordTed (edited 08-04-2002).]

  8. #8
    Toda Nebuchadnezzar
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    Ted is right guys...

    Archers after they have used up all their arrows are useless some guys think.

    But no wait...If your defending and ur line is weak send them in h2h(hold alt for the sword to appear as the cursor) to stregten the line.

    Always helps, or even a late-flanker. Can be the difference between winning and losing, but must have relatively high honour.

    But it was NARF who said it not Rokkaku just before anything gets out of hand.

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    Jaguara-Spoken like a TRUE SPAMMER Toda!

    No Fear Legend.

  9. #9

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    Not a on-line expert, just a reason for mistakes made by those familiar with battle strategies/concepts when playing on-line.

    Panic, feeling of too much to do caused by over use of the pause button in Single player.

    Remedy/prevention limit pause button use in single player. Plan as you play!




    ------------------

  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Biggest mistake a newbie makes is not knowing what they want to do when the game starts.

    Other mistakes include:

    - Sloppy setup
    - Inability to react well under pressure
    - Overreliance on heavy cavalry in low koku games
    - Not knowing they can reduce honor to stretch their budgets
    - Not saying "GAH!" at the start of the game
    - Not using wedgies properly
    - Stereotyping the human player as just another dumb AI
    - Arrogance (like claiming they will mop the floor with your head, only to be found unworthy of even becomming Ashigaru doup...)
    - Not saying "GAH!" at the start of the game
    - Not knowing how to talk in game to his allies
    - Proves he is tactically sterile during battle

    GAH!
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member Krasturak's Avatar
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    Gah!

    ... failing to say 'Gah!' at the start of the battle.

    Even experienced Shogunites fail at this crucial moment.

    ... failing to say 'Gah!' during the battle.

    You should reward your opponent with 'Gah!' when your Taisho routs or is killed. You should also 'Gah!' to claim the victory when you kill or rout an opponent's Taisho.

    ... overlapping his troops over an ally's troops.

    Gah! Bad! Gah! Never ever do this. Arrange the forces correctly.

    ... failing to communicate intentions to allies.

    Gnish! Always talk to allies! Gnish!

    ... moving single units at a time.

    Gnash! Learn to group units! Gnash!

    ... paying too much attention to the ranged fight.

    Gni! The battle will be won or lost by soldiers in direct contact with the enemy. Gni!

    ... asking the wrong people for advice.

    Hoql! Find worthwhile people to act as instructors. There are many veteran players who will share their knowledge. Hoql!

    ... getting involved with Clans before they are ready.

    Erak! Clans can be bad for you. Be yourself, find Clan later. Not important at first. Erak!

    ... hosting innappropriate maps.

    Daxn! Castle 3c again! Oh no! Not only will people avoid you, you will learn nothing this way, which will deprive you of a excitement and glory later. Daxn!

    ... annoying other players.

    Gah! The best way to join the communitry is to be respectful of the other people, and to give them entertainment as well as your best game. You'll find some of the best people online in Shogun, and you'll find a reward when you explore their thoughts and personalities. Even Vanya is a good guy. Gah!

  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    top ten newbie mistakes:

    1. playing magyar khan
    2. playing kocmoc
    3. playing amp
    4. thinking that elmark is 'tactically retreating"
    5. facing the wrong direction during setup and charging!
    6. facing the right direction during setup and charging!
    7. expecting to win
    8. expecting to lose
    9. not taking out insurance before battles
    10. forgetting to get a nike contract before battles.

    K.


    ------------------
    The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

  13. #13
    Member Member JeRrYgArCiA's Avatar
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    Let'see, I think i'm still a newbie, but,

    - Not playing me for easy honour, i suck
    - Thinking gaining honour gains you respect
    - Ignoring/not knowin what 4 Max no Ashi means
    - not adding honour to their men.

    -Jerry
    -Jerry Garcia
    Ape killed Ape!
    -Unkown Ape, Battle for the Planet of the Ape's

  14. #14
    Wolves Member FasT's Avatar
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    Best tips for newbie's r

    1. playing magyar khan
    2. playing kocmoc
    3. playing amp
    Ply the Best is the way forward,u will learn much this way.Yes u will loose,but watch how they move and attack u
    It will surely improve ur game!
    Not a Mistake IMO

  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member NinjaKilla's Avatar
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    Yeah 'Ctrl+A' is the obvious one, with 'T' not far behind.

    Other things not mentioned already (and I'm mainly talking STW):

    1) Thinking yari cav is indestructable and running them around on their own shouting "Tally-ho!"

    2) Using just 5 high honour units in a 6000k game.

    3) Not knowing that Ctrl + left click and drag deploys ur army a lot quicker.

    4) Attacking your guns face on with single units at a time.

    5) Picking naginata and/or ashiguru.

    6) Camping with back to red-zone; defending corners!!!

    All I can think of for now.

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    Clan Kenchikuka

  16. #16
    Rolluplover Member Kocmoc's Avatar
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    the most mistakes of newbies, imo....

    1. they dont read the manuel
    2. so they dont know any keys
    3. they played the SP-campain, and now they come and do theyr 1 point attacks
    4. they dont know the bonusses


    all together they know nothing, but important is, they dont know how this engine works, i trained guys wich didnt know that u get bonusses if u fight downhill, they realy thougth thats an 2d game...
    they never heard from a game where u get bonusses like charge or double of units...

    i dont think thats grouping is the important thing to know nether to know to move in 1 formation... they just dont know how the engine works and thats theyr prob!

    i always explained such guys, what happen if u double unit or if u fougth downhill showed them how to move units fast and efficient.

    they dont know how this honour effect the stats of the units, some guys dont use all koku... dont know that 1th unit is gen...

    many things, so let them do an easy example... u take 2 units and he use maybe 10... now let him bring always just 1 unit... maybe u come till unit 6 ot 7 than 1 of ur unit will run...but this example give them an feeling and just the feling is important, they see that this insnt an acrade game, that u can win with less units, and just the skill decide...

    ...just my opinion....

    koc

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  17. #17
    Member Member ShadeWraith's Avatar
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    Reinforcing failure......when isolated or poorly deployed units are getting chopped some new players will pour more units into a poor situation in an attempt to "rescue" them. I suppose its a natural thing to do, its much harder to write them off and attempt to consolidate your remaining forces.

    Wraith
    Proud Member of ClanShades

  18. #18
    Senior Member Senior Member Cheetah's Avatar
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    I like this thread too
    Lional of Cornwall
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    Death before dishonour.

    "If you wish to weaken the enemy's sword, move first, fly in and cut!" - Ueshiba Morihei O-Sensei

  19. #19
    Member Member Paolai's Avatar
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    don't play always with the same army. For each map u have to choose a different one

  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    GAH!

    Newbies should play with all naginata and ashigaru units only at first. If they can do so and score many victories, they they will have proven their might and shed their newbieness. At least until it comes time to try something else.

    Only experienced newbies should resort to useing the Wet Gunny Wedgie Army of Doom. This tends to reward them with easy wins that require no tactical thought whatsoever, and in so doing, restricts their cognitive/tactical growth. Use this army only as a last resort! (ie, when playing magy, koc or amp online for your first game It won't work on Vanya ...)

    GAH!


    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member Krasturak's Avatar
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    Gah!

    New players should also be aware that learning the game will take a long time.

    Gah!

  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member Dionysus9's Avatar
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    Here is a clip out of an old thread (http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003624.html)

    Some signs you might be a newbie:
    If you don't have the map: Ob Horselands you are probably a newbie.
    If you don't line up your muskets when you setup on a flat map, you are probably a newbie.
    If you don't know that "T is for Talk" you are definately a newbie.
    If you host competitive 5 player games with 43333 koku, you are a newbie.
    If the only way you can win is by defending a mountain, you are a newbie.
    If you ignore all of your allies requests for support, you are probably a newbie.
    If you can't move your entire army as a group, you are a newbie in my book.
    If you rush in the first 10 seconds of the game you might just be a newbie. If you then complain that your allies left you out to dry (because they didn't follow your rediculous charge) then you are a newbie.
    If you don't know who AmpMortog is, you are a newbie in my book.
    If you take all of one unit type, you are probably a newbie.
    In short, if you can't beat me-- you are a newbie.
    Hunter_Bachus

  23. #23
    the goldfish Senior Member tootee's Avatar
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    Well, not knowing [t] for chat definitely defines a newbie. I know one is newbie by the way his control his army. Choice of army may be one but I know many veterans pick bad army for the challenge. Not helping an ally may be his decision, so can't fault him as a newbie.
    tootee the goldfish,
    loyal roach of Clan S.G.

  24. #24
    Member Member MaJeStIcKoKeNo's Avatar
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    When your ally just sits on the top of a hill and you and your clanmate ask him to rush, and he sends 2 yari cav units against yari sams, then leaves his entire (honour 2) army on top of a hill when we are attackers.

    ------------------
    -MajesticKokeno
    of the Majestic Ryouko Clan
    -MajesticKokeno
    of the Majestic Ryouko Clan

  25. #25
    the goldfish Senior Member tootee's Avatar
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    he must be on a very high and nice mountain
    tootee the goldfish,
    loyal roach of Clan S.G.

  26. #26
    This comment is witty! Senior Member LittleGrizzly's Avatar
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    when ur fighting 2 good attackers and as u fight 2v1 (not doing a bad job of it) he sits an watches... then when they're tired smaller force arrives he gets slaughtered!!
    In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!

  27. #27
    Member Member theforce's Avatar
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    The most idiotic thing a newbie can do is to take 16 guns in heavy rain, turn them so that u can hit their flanks and change their formation to loose formation and to let you charge with cav after he has done that

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    I cannot return l presume so l will keep my name among those who are dead by bows!
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  28. #28
    Member Member youssof_Toda's Avatar
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    Most common is that they don't know they can deploy their units themselves as an attacker (which is not possible in SP campaign)

  29. #29
    Sideswipe feature king Member shingenmitch2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Krasturak:
    Gah!

    ... paying too much attention to the ranged fight.

    Gni! The battle will be won or lost by soldiers in direct contact with the enemy. Gni!
    [/QUOTE]

    LOL Krast, is this before or after your 10 muskets whittle the army down to 5 men per unit?



    Retreat? Hell, we're just attacking in a different direction...

    THE DEADLY SHINGEN



  30. #30
    Member Member Wrath of God's Avatar
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    After reading your posts, I believe, as a Newbie myself, that I will probably not be able to play this game if I should expect to be ridiculed for not knowing things. The posts are so critical of newbies, it's remarkable.

    In comparison, for example, I happen to belong to an Anno 1602 forum, and we experienced players are very kind and helpful to newbies. When I was a newbie in that game, the pros gave me invaluable tips and answered basic questions politely and helpfully. After a few weeks, I became proficient. I have been playing strategy games for years, and believe me, I have never seen such complex interfaces as the past couple of years. Shogun, European Wars, Europa Universalis--they are all quite difficult in comparison to earlier game designs. Somehow, the game complexity has permeated the interfaces, and it is now quite difficult to learn a game in an hour or two.

    Some of you may have forgotten how difficult it can be learning a new strategy directly from the manual. And, (yes, Sister Perpetua, I know I am not supposed to begin sentences with conjunctives like "And"), it is hard to play with the manual in your lap.

    Furthermore, one might ask why a game would be programmed so you need a manual to learn how to play? A manual should be for occasional reference. If I owned a game company, I would force my designers (under threat of loss of stock options) to program games that would be easy to learn. Isn't the real challenge conceptualizing a good strategy and employing good tactics rather than mastering the stupid interface?

    In this game, the tutorial requires a vast amount of time because of the video/graphics. One can't be expected to read the manual in bed at 11:00 p.m. and then next play the game 7:00 p.m. the next day with any hope of effective learning. So what if we newbies don't know a know a Dojo from a Mojo? Or as we Italo-Americans say in Rhode Island, a "Mo-Mo." (A Mo-Mo is a moron, an idiot, a big lout.)

    You guys might cut us newbies a break and try to put yourself in our cheap straw sandals for a moment. I want to learn to play this game, and I'll bet once I do, I will be a whatever the Japanese call the Don!

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