Lets show CA who all wants China: Total War!

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

Hehe, looks like I have natural marketing skills...

And yeah, this is around the 4th times a big poll has been held to show CA just how many people want China. And there is an absolutely huge topic about it at the .com. That guy has alot of support and wants a game like tihs as much as we do!

[Qilue]

I voted "yes" only because I would have zero interest in N:TW.

[Plucesiar]

eww American Civil War? Please say no, I'd rather have another improved MTW2. So like, for ACW, all you do is line up your troops and fire? yes that was a bit exaggerated, but I'd like to keep these total war games to historic times when melee combat was still the main way of fighting and not getting lines of ppl to reload their muskets while the front lines shoot

[WarHawk]

I'd rather have a Napoleanonic, or WWI-WWII Total War

[Maeda Toshiie]

There are 2 suitable scenarios: 3 kingdoms and Spring/Autumn Warring States.

3 Kingdoms: The fall of (Eastern Han) dynasty. The country was initially split among numerous warlords following the failure of the central government to control the country. The warlords fought among themselves till 3 states emerged from the struggles. Cao Cao's son deposed the last Han Emperor (by then a mere puppet) and established Wei, while Lui Bei established the Shu Han and Sun Quan maintained independence (he never declared himself Emperor). These 3 lasted for quite some time before they were finally reunited by the Jin dynasty (which replaced Wei and fell later with invasion of barbarians). A 3 Kingdoms game can start off at 187 BC with the uprising of the yellow turbans. Additional starting times can be added. RTK series by Koei can be an example.

Warring States (do not mix up with Spring/Autumn period): 7 states fighting from 403 Bc to 221BC (proclamation of the Qin Emperor). Heck of a civil war period. Oh and dont forget that chariots, halberds and x-bows were in use then.

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

Yeah, this game starts at Warring States, but you can also start at the 3 Kingdoms era if you like. Either way a TW obviously cant depend on one country anymore. It's gunna have China, but all the other faction in the East too.

[WarHawk]

I don't think many people would buy a China TW. I know I wouldn't.

[Del Arroyo]

That's where you're wrong, Cao Cao. It could only involve China. None of the other Asian cultures were involved in these conflicts.

[discovery1]

I love this idea, but would the current technology really do it justice? After, how large were the armies during even the waring states period? Far larger than even those fielded by Rome at it's height I think. I rember reading about armies numbering in the hundreds of thousands, although it was on these very forums so I have no idea whether or not they are accurate. So I think that while it is a good idea, I think it is best to wait until we have the tech to field such grand armies.

[ToranagaSama]

What *I* want is a return to the original Shogun: Total War, barring that yes a visit to one of the Chinese eras would be MOST welcome. Thankfully, I believe we have exhausted Europe for the time being!!!! India would also be very interesting.

[SpencerH]

I think it could be an interesting game but I'd like to see NTW or (a non-scripted) War Between The States:TW (maybe with the possibilities of British, French, and Mexican interventions).

[Del Arroyo]

There aren't enough factions in the ACW. Would not work in a Total War game.

Besides, we've already got Sid Meier's Gettysburg/Antietam.

DA

[NimitsTexan]

There aren't enough factions in the ACW. Would not work in a Total War game.

Besides, we've already got Sid Meier's Gettysburg/Antietam.

DA

Like I said, it would have to be a heavily modified TW engine.

SMG/SMA, on the other hand, have no strategic component, and are quite old (barely run on some xp systems).

[bmolsson]

Why not something from the Americas BEFORE Mr. Columbus screwed things up ? ;)

Factions: Inca, Aztecs, etc etc

[NimitsTexan]

Why not something from the Americas BEFORE Mr. Columbus screwed things up ? ;)

Factions: Inca, Aztecs, etc etc

What do you mean "Columbus screwed things up?" North America is surely a better place for his having bumped it (yeah I know th Vikings and maybe even the Romans got here first, but still).

[The Sword of Cao Cao]

^ Forgot the Chinese. They discovered the New World before Columbus was even born. They also didnt keep thier discovery a secret in Asia at least. Medieval Chinese were completely aware of the existence of Africa and the New World.

[kongxinga]

Chinese were also the first non aboriginal people in Australia. America may have been better for Anglo Saxons, but how about the Native Indians?

China Total War would be a fine idea. There are a few reasons why.

1. In roads into the huge Asian gaming market, especially Korean and Taiwanese. Medieval and Shogun has already attracted many Asians, the Taiwan Cavaliers for example. But a game on their own cultures in a time of growing cultural pride would be a hit, more than making up for any potential loss of revenue from any ignorant European descended peoples, or any potential imperialists or rascists. I am not saying they are, and I am not calling anyone this, but there exists quite a few.

2. Diversity and ease of time period
Pratically any eriod from fall of Han onwards could be included, but I will stop at the mongol invasion. China was in a state of disarray (3 kingdoms, 5 dynasty 10 kingdoms) at this time, offering the other nearby cultures a chance. A united China played agressively would walk over all the cultures unless they made their units in the common western misinterpretation- that is weak and massed. All the nearby countries could be included, including up to the arabs (Battle of Talas River anyone?). To anyone that disputes this statement, you should know that in the one historically documented clash between chinese troops and roman style troops, it was a crushing defeat for the romans. The romans adopted the fish scale formation (Testudo) while the chinese proceeded to laugh and shoot them with Chinese Crossbows (not ZHUGE NU aka cho ko nu aka Nian Nu aka Kung Ming Nu, it is an earlier version). So even the much vaunted Roman empire lost militarily to Han China. And the Roman Empire is considered the backbone of Western Culture. Source (Penguin History of the world for the battle) Note that Rome is much weaker economically to Han China. (Just look how Rome fell.) Some people might ask, why did china not embark in a conquering spree? Typical. 5000 years of history has taught china many things, one of them is that a empire based on exploitation of any kind is doomed to fall fast. Just look at the Zhou dynasty. It started off based on feudalism and military control of peasants, but soon warlords arose. Although the zhou dynasty lingered on, it was effectively an ineffective political entity. So that is why no colonialism or imperialism and what not. Most western history tests claim that Qing empire was weak because it had no overseas empire. Very common misconception. It already had a huge RICH empire that is well managed. The reason China was on decline was due to a series of incompetent rulers. For example just look at what Lin of the Blue sky did to the british at Canton. German artillery already brought and trained, BOOM, british ships scamper away (but proceeded to bambard peking, which scares the heck of stupid emperor who surrenders). Beware, this (any empire based on exploitation is doomed to fall face) policy has never failed in Chinese history. The mongols are the most famous 2nd example, but I am sure you all know that, don't you ?






No? How about 65:1? Does this ratio not give a clue?


Back on topic. In addition to crack troops, high tech troops, and high levels of culture, there can be a lot of different strategic agents with many different tasks. Any one who played any ROTK game would know. ( Burn stores etc) and this game could introduce a lot of legendary objects ( Imperial seal, Red Hare horse, Green Dragon Sword) which boosts your generals atttributes. Also vietnamese ( known as nan Man but that is politically incorrect if translated) could be included with their rattan armoured troops.
Sword of Cao Cao , you left out Shui Shang Huo Lu, which is a ship launched rocket , with a range of 2 km. If CA wants to go to a more fantasy (as least in the eyes of Westerners)approach, war Kites could be included. I would also like to see fork carts included as siege weapons. I know Cao Cao in ROTK used many Xiongnu cavalry, but did Liu have any tibetan Cavalry. If so these could also be included. Since Ca has already taken a Warcrafty approach to TW, in CTW they could also include Strategists, who launch tactics ( Spells that cause fear disorder, change of wind direction, or to bring down rain) these strategists are your generals, but to compensate they are weak in combat. So with Longer time periods, and the immense diversity of the cultures, this game would be very good.

3. Europe has been overused. Plus whoever said a game set in Asia would not be a success. As the ROTK series have proven that they will. This whole reluctance is because nobody has seriously tried to do it. But if CA shakes off western misconceptions, and makes a CTW, they could become THE COmpany in the eyes of Asians. THE COMPANY is Blizzard now, but the greater success of a Chinese oriented game could easily displace them , as CA becomes The Company that brought the continent into Western focus.

The arguments for this game are many, and it should be made sooner than later.

[bmolsson]

What do you mean "Columbus screwed things up?" North America is surely a better place for his having bumped it (yeah I know th Vikings and maybe even the Romans got here first, but still).

Sure North America is a better place now, but it will not be as interesting as a TW game...... ;)

[NimitsTexan]

Not sure about that, though I will take anything that would move TW out of swords and arrows (and especially a return to the far east) into the horse and musket period or beyond. We have three ancient/medieval TW games, time for a change of pace.