Roman: Julii

[Avicenna]

Im enjoying my Julii campaign so far.

Conquered all of Gaul and am pounding my former Allies Germania. It helps that the Brutii have expanded as fast up north as well - should be an interesting end game with them in a couple of decades. My next major targets are taking the whole of Britain and Spain. I have two armies training in Narbo/Alesia and Londinim.

Ive got spies everywhere. Im making 57k per turn. Katank!

do you mean 57k income or profit?

[Garvanko]

Income. Profit is between 8-12k per turn so far. Though that is likely to drop as I build up my forces again.

Im good on the economic side, but not that good! Should have clarified. My apologies.

[Pontifex Rex]

240 BC

Thirty years into the campaign and the Gauls have been defeated and their former lands are being absobed into the Empire. Spain, despite yet another defeat refuses to make peace and appropriate action may have to be taken. The VI and IX Legions are now in Spain and the II Legion is en route. The VIII Legion is being left behind in Gaul to fill the security needs of the provinces and watch the Britons, who seem to be gaining the upper hand in Germania.

Our Brutii allies have begun a war against Dacia and the family has decided to send elements of the III Legion from Illyria and Dalmatia to take Panonia and secure the line of the upper Danube River. The remaining province of Thrace has agreed to join the empire as a protectorate of Rome under the supervision of the Brutii.

Over in Asia Minor, the Pontic king seemed to have gone mad. Despite already being at war with Egypt and Armenia, he declared war on Rome and launched his armies against the family holdings at Lycia and Ionia. After defeating a number of Pontic thrusts and depriving Pontus of the provinces of Phrygia and Bythinia the king still refused generous offers for peace so it was decided to remove the threat entirely. The full weight of the I, IV and V Legions launched an invasion that destroyed the remainder of the Pontic Kingdom. Only Assyria has not been conquered and rumour has it that it has fallen into rebellion and has declared itself independant. We shall see.

The empire holdings under Julii control has grown quite rapidly over the last five years and the fear is there is more territory than troops to guard it. Danger now looms in the east as Egypt, Parthia, Armenia and Stygia have formed an alliance and their troops press up against the borders of the Empire from Tribus Getea around Mare Nostrum all the way to Syria and Cilicia. Spys and Diplomats have been dispatched to see if they can ascertain the intent of this powerful group of eastern kingdoms.



https://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f...Julii240BC.png

[Garvanko]

Ive started recruiting Samnite Gladiators, but Im unsure how to get the best out of them in the impending Civil War. Any ideas?

Its 200BC. Ive got all of Western Europe except three provinces in Spain (I hold Carthago and Osca), as well as Palma. Gaul and the Britons are crushed, Germania is on its last legs, and I hold about 28 provinces.

Taking Osca alone took about twenty five turns of brinkmanship with the Spanish. Heavy duty stuff. I even had to bring in my Faction Leader from Arretium just to shore up morale in the final push.

With the Brutii all over my Eastern front, and the Scipii in Africa, Spain offers the only real expansion unless I open hostilities with my Roman brothers. Taking all of Spain will probably trigger suicide calls from the Senate so Im quickly mobilising three major armies in Italy, my acadmies and Scriptoriums are training my Generals, and I await the call to arms with baited breadth. Ave.

Screenshots:

The war effort in Spain reaches a high point at Carthago.


Talk about influence. Faction Leader and Heir are Pontifex and Censor respectively..


I took Corduba and Numantia early this morning, so I now have 30 provinces.

[Avicenna]

Garvanko: perhaps the gladiators, as your supposedly best hand-to-hand fighters, could man the siege towers and cut down the defenders on the walls?

[Garvanko]

Using Largue Unit size, I only get 40 per unit, Tiberius. Not sure they're best employed on the walls. Won't they get overwhelmed by enemy cohorts?

I do think they could prove excellent flanking units.

[Ludens]

Using Largue Unit size, I only get 40 per unit, Tiberius. Not sure they're best employed on the walls. Won't they get overwhelmed by enemy cohorts?

I do think they could prove excellent flanking units.

Actually, small but powerful units like gladiators are excellent on walls because there numbers mean less and raw power more. They do especially well defending against ladders or covering the flanks of other wall-guards, but when attacking they will also do a good deal if damage if you sent them first into the breach or onto the wall. Just make sure that you have a second unit ready to follow them.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I generally don't bother with the gladiators, except when using the Brutii version against chariots/hefalumps.

They have high morale and 80 hit points, but only 40 figures. This can be an advantage where speed of deployment counts.

Going up ladders -- unit is complete much quicker and fights more cohesively on walls.

Siege towers/rams -- fewer figures and double HP mean slower attrition from missile weapons on walls (which love packs of 120 to shoot at).

No alternate weapon -- just point click and attack, makes them easy to use.

Fun at parties.

[Avicenna]

Brutii gladiators are the worst though. Surely their lack of any armour means they get killed off by the archer towers before reaching the walls?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Brutii gladiators are the worst though. Surely their lack of any armour means they get killed off by the archer towers before reaching the walls?

I lose very few folks on most wall attacks. Most of the city lay-outs feature sections which are poorly covered. By carefully programming a path using shift and right click, I can often bring a ladder unit or a tower to the base of the wall with few/no casualties -- sometimes surprisingly close to a gatehouse. The Brutii gladiators do suffer from the lower armor, but the 2hp thing seems to go a long ways.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

I personaly think that this is the hardest roman faction to play with. You have to go north its your only option. The only problem is money. The gauls if attacked early will be deafeted with ease make sure you kill the populance it will allowyou to train some troops and leave them there. Once you have concered most of the north and Spain you might want to move into nort east africa. these will be pivitol once the reforms come around. As soon as you get the chance move for the weak macedons the brutii rule that area and getting a good setllement will help you take them. When you take Rome the other faction capitals will b just down the road. Move another army and tak Capua. In the next few turns you should try to take salona and the move for Tarentum. BE CAREFUL!!!! The Brutii have a huge and powerful army and will be very angry that you took their town so they will attack you on every front so make sure that tou are moving troops to the towns that border with them After doing all this you have two options.
1) take your army west into the Greek area
2) continue south and meet up with your army from africa

[Roy1991]

I'm not far at all, lol.
First time I'm playing the campaign, it's 236BC, and I have a bit less than 20 provinces (Northern Italy & most of the South of Gaul).
The AI got rid of 3 other factions (Germans, Macedonians, Numidians).
I'm now advancing further in Gaul, with 2 legions.
(one consisting of 6 generals, 4 velites, and 10 hastati/principes, the other one consisting of 4 ballistae, 9 archers, 7 principes )
Have 100K+ denari, so economics aren't going too bad :)

[Garvanko]

I personaly think that this is the hardest roman faction to play with. You have to go north its your only option.

No its not. You can expand anywhere with the Julii. Try a quick raid on Lilybaem in Sicily, or even Carthage. Opens up so many possibilities.

Ive tried the Carthage route. Lots of fun.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Welcome to the Org rory1991!

There's nothing wrong with going slow in the Julii campaign- it's just that many of our members like to blitz as much as possible.

I don't know your current situation, but I think it might be a good time to spend that 100k and expand North/East if the Brutii haven't already taken it. That way you block them somewhat when the inevitable Civil War comes. Think of it as a race to Byzantium. My best general of all time, Marcus the Great, singlehandedly took out Dacia and Thrace, and then proceeded to absolutely smash the Brutii and their many Greek legions (although I did send reinforcements) during the civil war. So you will definitely receive some excellent generals going that route.

PS- I think you might want to try a more balanced army, 6 generals/9 archers is never a good thing.

Happy campaigning!

[Roy1991]

Thanks :)
The reason why I'm using so much generals/archers currently is because it's extremely effective aganst the lightly armoured Gauls & Britton chariots.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

6 Generals & 9 Archers for a stack is GROSSLY AHISTORICAL.

To Give Roy-boy his due, however, the tactics of the battle AI and the huge over-weighting of cavalry in vanilla is such that it makes an almost perfect army for the conditions that obtain in the game.

Archers are way too lethal.
Cavalry may as well all be wearing blue suits with a red S on their chests.

He's just putting to gether a force that takes advantage of the games strengths -- the only logical thing to do.

Unfortunately, regardless of faction, infantry in RTW is mostly present on the open field battle as a target.

[rotorgun]

6 Generals & 9 Archers for a stack is GROSSLY AHISTORICAL.

To Give Roy-boy his due, however, the tactics of the battle AI and the huge over-weighting of cavalry in vanilla is such that it makes an almost perfect army for the conditions that obtain in the game.

Archers are way too lethal.
Cavalry may as well all be wearing blue suits with a red S on their chests.

He's just putting to gether a force that takes advantage of the games strengths -- the only logical thing to do.

Unfortunately, regardless of faction, infantry in RTW is mostly present on the open field battle as a target.

As for the infantry being a target, well....what else is new? It's stilll the same today as it was in ancient times, don't you agree? They do lend a certain factor to the battlefield however; their very presence on it allows a general to hold his "chosen ground" rather cheaply, hence the term cannon fodder.

I do agree with the interesting tack that Senor Roy has taken to deal with his Brittanic foe. I would like a little more elaboration on why such an archer/cavalry force is so effective against this faction. I would have thought that it might be at a disadvantage against the chariot heavy Britons, being that cavalry is not particularly suited to melee with them. Once the cavalry is routed it's a little difficult for an archer to shoot on the run.

BTW Seamus, that red S is most likely stands for "Sucker" or "Shoot here!" LoL

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Rotorgun:

Having played as Britain a bit, and as Rome against them....

I would guess he's not using the cavalry against the chariots, but against the rest of the forces, probably using the classic dangle one in front of them and then hammer in the rear with two more. With Light Chariots off to the flanks (see below) the head hurlers and warbands are at a big disad v cavalry -- and the swordsmen not loads better off.

The archers -- especially if started out way to the flanks -- would draw the light chariots out into a shooting duel they cannot win, and the AI doesn't seem to drive home on archers with Brit chariots (though it does with Eggy).

Then the archers can come back to center to help with any heavy chariots that the horse boys can't take. They should have been able to carve up the infantry a bit without too much worry.

Against a Brit stack that had a few barb cav mercs it would be a lot tougher to pull this kind of thing off

[Ludens]

As for the infantry being a target, well....what else is new? It's stilll the same today as it was in ancient times, don't you agree? They do lend a certain factor to the battlefield however; their very presence on it allows a general to hold his "chosen ground" rather cheaply, hence the term cannon fodder.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Classical Europe was ruled by heavy infantry, were they legionaries, phalangilites, hoplites or Celtic chapions. These were certainly not battle fodder. It may have had something to do with the quality of the cavalry opposing them, but I don't think Alexander the Great would have gotten as far as he did if he had traded all his phalangilites for cavalry. It is only later, well into the Roman empire, that cavalry became more important than infantry. We are used to think in terms of Medieval knights and their successors, but this kind of heavy shock cavalry was just starting to appear in this era.

[Roy1991]

As for the infantry being a target, well....what else is new? It's stilll the same today as it was in ancient times, don't you agree? They do lend a certain factor to the battlefield however; their very presence on it allows a general to hold his "chosen ground" rather cheaply, hence the term cannon fodder.

I do agree with the interesting tack that Senor Roy has taken to deal with his Brittanic foe. I would like a little more elaboration on why such an archer/cavalry force is so effective against this faction. I would have thought that it might be at a disadvantage against the chariot heavy Britons, being that cavalry is not particularly suited to melee with them. Once the cavalry is routed it's a little difficult for an archer to shoot on the run.

Heh, I seem to have a lot of different titles ;)


When using the archers/ballistae/principes legion:

P P P P P
BBP AAAAA PBB
AAAA

While the enemy is walking towards you, the ballistae can kill quite some of the chariots, and when they come closer the archers join the fun ;)
Because the chariots are faster than the infantry, they usually are the first who reach my lines, meaning that 7 units of Principes will throw all their pila at the chariots.
Anything that survives all the missiles get slaughtered in the melee combat against the Principes.


When using the generals/velites/principes legion:

GGG V V V V
GGG PPPPPPPPPP

Use the generals to make a flanking move (but make sure that you stay far enough from the enemy army, so that they won't follow you), and as soon as the melee combat between the Principes and chariots & Briton infantry starts, attack them from the rear.
Because then chariots then are enclosed, they usually can't move, and thus are an easy prey.

[Roy1991]

Hm, those formations don't show up well :(
Principes should of course be in front of the archers, and the generals should be further away of the rest of the army.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Classical Europe was ruled by heavy infantry, were they legionaries, phalangilites, hoplites or Celtic chapions. These were certainly not battle fodder. It may have had something to do with the quality of the cavalry opposing them, but I don't think Alexander the Great would have gotten as far as he did if he had traded all his phalangilites for cavalry. It is only later, well into the Roman empire, that cavalry became more important than infantry. We are used to think in terms of Medieval knights and their successors, but this kind of heavy shock cavalry was just starting to appear in this era.

You are speaking of reality, I am writing of RTW vanilla. Should infantry be so secondary? Of course not! But the way the game engine is put together, the most rational force for the romans is a thin screen of rental hoplites with upgraded armor (3) fronting archer auxilia (5) and with the other 12 in the stack being Family members (4-6) and Praetorian cavalry. Armies exclusively composed of Family members and Equites, in the early game, fare pretty well.

What? Fodder for all cavalry armies tough in Western Europe of the period?
What? Trained infantry, even without spears, really won't break under a frontal assault by non-stirrupped cavalry?

Don't worry, its RTW! My general can just run over that group of gallic sworders!

[rotorgun]

Sorry, but I have to disagree with this. Classical Europe was ruled by heavy infantry, were they legionaries, phalangilites, hoplites or Celtic chapions. These were certainly not battle fodder. It may have had something to do with the quality of the cavalry opposing them, but I don't think Alexander the Great would have gotten as far as he did if he had traded all his phalangilites for cavalry. It is only later, well into the Roman empire, that cavalry became more important than infantry. We are used to think in terms of Medieval knights and their successors, but this kind of heavy shock cavalry was just starting to appear in this era.

Well said. I was only referring to the general concept that most people seem to think, that infantry is only fodder. It is also my strange sense of humor that lead to such a comment. Of course you are right. If it wasn't for the fine infantry types you mentioned in this post, I'm quite sure that history would have turned out quite differently. I was just poking a bit of fun at my good freind Seamus with whom I seem to share the view that the vanilla cavalry and archers are somewhat uberstrong compared to the historical models that they are based on. I hope I haven't offened?

[rotorgun]

[QUOTE=Roy1991]Heh, I seem to have a lot of different titles;[QUOTE]

I beg your pardon freind. Just having a bit of fun. I have had a rather long weekend working and am a bit punchy.

When using the archers/ballistae/principes legion:
P P P P P
BBP AAAAA PBB
AAAA

While the enemy is walking towards you, the ballistae can kill quite some of the chariots, and when they come closer the archers join the fun ;)
Because the chariots are faster than the infantry, they usually are the first who reach my lines, meaning that 7 units of Principes will throw all their pila at the chariots.
Anything that survives all the missiles get slaughtered in the melee combat against the Principes.

Intersting, but does this work against a Brit force of say....ten to twelve archer chariots doing Cantaberian circles firing at your line, and eight to ten skirmisher units who will only run away when the over armored Principes try to charge them? This happened to a similar army of mine in one online battle. It was a debacle for my poor Roman legion.

When using the generals/velites/principes legion:

GGG V V V V
GGG PPPPPPPPPP

Use the generals to make a flanking move (but make sure that you stay far enough from the enemy army, so that they won't follow you), and as soon as the melee combat between the Principes and chariots & Briton infantry starts, attack them from the rear.
Because then chariots then are enclosed, they usually can't move, and thus are an easy prey.

This would be a much better approach to such a force, but why not four archers insread of the velites?

[Ludens]

I was just poking a bit of fun at my good freind Seamus with whom I seem to share the view that the vanilla cavalry and archers are somewhat uberstrong compared to the historical models that they are based on. I hope I haven't offened?

Off course not. It was "It's stilll the same today as it was in ancient times, don't you agree?" that set me on the wrong track.

You are speaking of reality, I am writing of RTW vanilla. Should infantry be so secondary? Of course not! But the way the game engine is put together, the most rational force for the romans is a thin screen of rental hoplites with upgraded armor (3) fronting archer auxilia (5) and with the other 12 in the stack being Family members (4-6) and Praetorian cavalry.

Absolutely. I was just misled by rotorgun's sense of humour to think he said that the game represented reality rather when it comes to the value of infantry. We have cultural conceptions about the status cavalryman - footslogger, and these tend to be projected on past ages as well. Holywood likes to depict the cavalry as the dashing heroes, but in this era this was the exception rather than the rule.

[Roy1991]

Intersting, but does this work against a Brit force of say....ten to twelve archer chariots doing Cantaberian circles firing at your line, and eight to ten skirmisher units who will only run away when the over armored Principes try to charge them? This happened to a similar army of mine in one online battle. It was a debacle for my poor Roman legion.

The AI isn't so smart ;)
Anyway, I'm working on replacing the Principes with Early Legionary Cohorts, so I can use the Testudo formation in situations like that.

This would be a much better approach to such a force, but why not four archers insread of the velites?

That would be better indeed, but the problem is that all my Gallic cities can't recruit archers yet, and it takes quite a while to transport archers from Italy to where my legion is now.

[rotorgun]

Roy1991 The AI isn't so smart ;)
Anyway, I'm working on replacing the Principes with Early Legionary Cohorts, so I can use the Testudo formation in situations like that.

Thank God that it isn't or we probably wouldn't win many games, no? Good idea about the Testudoes.

That would be better indeed, but the problem is that all my Gallic cities can't recruit archers yet, and it takes quite a while to transport archers from Italy to where my legion is now.

You must have moved across Gual with lightning speed to have not developed any archery ranges yet.....Velites it is then. I like your ideas for this formation. I'll give it a try when the situation warrants.

Buena Suerte Amigo.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Sheesh, I was about to go on last night (for me anyways) and say that we had better get back to the topic or else face the wrath of Her Froggy Highness, but I decided to go to bed instead. Luckily the whole Monastery-worthy debate has died down and we can get back to the strategies!

Roy1991- it seems as if you have taken a path similar to my Julii game, so I have some insights as what to do next. Build a second army, preferably high-tech, and send it to points east, mainly Dacia and then Thrace. The Gaul/Britannia situation seems to be under control, and by the time reinforcements arrive from Italy they will most likely not be needed.

There are a couple of reasons for going east:

Land. A second army means doubling the conquered territories. You will win the all-important support of the people much faster, which is extremely good in the long run.

Resources. Ok, granted it's a poor part of the map. But poor land is better than no land. And since the cities are still pretty small, you should only have to garrison one or two units in each city at max.

Blocking. The Brutii like to go this route (north for them, east for you) before they hit Turkey. I'm sure that Messrs. Ludens, Rotorgun, and Seamus will back me up when I say that the Brutii are more competent than the other Roman factions and are the only one that can really threaten you during the civil war. Block them from going this way, and they will most certainly feel the hurt sometime later.

Basically, it's a race. Don't stop pushing until you take Byzantium. The end result will be lots of territories, and a ridiculously good army let by an awesome general. You will mostly be facing infantry (falxmen, with phalangites for Thrace), so plan accordingly.

[Roy1991]

Roy1991- it seems as if you have taken a path similar to my Julii game, so I have some insights as what to do next. Build a second army, preferably high-tech, and send it to points east, mainly Dacia and then Thrace. The Gaul/Britannia situation seems to be under control, and by the time reinforcements arrive from Italy they will most likely not be needed.

Thanks for the advice, but I had to stop my Julii campaign :(
For some strange reason the game keeps corrupting all my Julii save files (it loads for like 2 or 3 seconds, and then CTD).
Don't have this problem with the Brutii

[rotorgun]

Thanks for the advice, but I had to stop my Julii campaign :(
For some strange reason the game keeps corrupting all my Julii save files (it loads for like 2 or 3 seconds, and then CTD).
Don't have this problem with the Brutii

Sorry to hear that. I usually save after each turn before clicking the hourglass, and then if I have problems with my save game, I back up and load the autosave. If everything works out ok with the autosave, I delete my gamesave file (entitled Julii or something like that) and play on the autosave. Just before the turn ends I save it again as a new file. If that doesn't work....well I guess you'll have to uninstall/reinstall the game fresh.

I would like to back up GeneralHandkerchief on his advice to block the Brutii in the east. In the later game it is critical that you have taken some steps to limit their expansion. It will pay dividends for you if you must fight you fellow Romans. They are much more competent than the Scipii (although this wasn't true historically).

Buena Suerte Roy 1991