Roman: Scipii

[dismal]

Velites and some Libyan skirmishers..

Carthage will have elephants early on VH campaign! Duh! Makes it harder? Yes. On Medium, they don't build the beasts until later on.

Well, OK then. Believe it or not, imparting information such as this is entirely the point of having a Scipii strategy guide!

When I first landed near Carthage I encountered a full-stack Carthaginian army with no less than 3 units of elephants. Arrow shooting elephants to boot. You need to be prepared to beat them. If you plan on doing it with Velites, they better eat their wheaties.

[pezhetairoi]

The only elephants I have EVER encountered in the game (believe it or not) in all my campaigns are the single unit of pathetic low-tech elephants that Carthage fielded to defend their capital, which were promptly taken apart by my blue hastati without much significant loss. Hm. So much for elephants. *thumbs nose at Carthage*

However, that's not to say I don't have problems. Do you have any idea how annoying it is when you have two armies bribed out from under your nose, and a city with it? I don't know how much Carthage was spending, but I got a little pissed off and switched to Germania after Carthage bribed a) Thapsus in turn 10+ with 10 units still in there preparing to move on Leptis Magna, and b) Carthage 4 turns later with an almost-full stack in there waiting to embark for Sparta! *screams*

I thought the AI diplomats were supposed let themselves get bribed and just stand around doing nothing. Hmmmph.

[Diadochoi]

I've conquered about 75% of the world as the Scipii... I never once saw an elephant unit fielded against me by carthage, although I defeated them early on (by 250 bc or so) so maybe thats why.

In fact, the only two elephant units that I've seen in the game at all were the two I was able to hire as mercs, only 1 available in Africa, and one near Damascus. Really cool to use, although I made the mistake of using the elephants to storm a city once and they ended up panicking and taking out a huge cut of my own troops

[tibilicus]

Both the factions that can train Elephants NEVER last long in campaigns. Ever noticed that? That may make you ask whats the point in even giving them elephants.

[katank]

Actually it does not matter the campaign difficulty level. Carthage gets a unit of forest elephants in their army in Sicily. Just see the descr_strat file.

It makes a big difference if the human is Carthage or if you are plaing Romans on VH battle difficulty. The former makes the Carthaginian blitz strat possible by using the elepant as mobile ram for spectacular smashing ability up and down the Italian penisula. The latter makes certain that the ele actually wouldn't rout from falme arrows before hitting your battle lines and will actually plow through. However, with reasonable tactics, the ele will still die relatively quickly.

[Beefy]

I;m loving the Scipii Campaign, most fun out of all 3 roman factions

you get to fight Carthage, Numidia, Eygpt, and spain all with different styles!

At the moment its 190BC and i have All of africa down to Alexandria, i ahve Sparta Rhodes and Crete all of Spain and of course sciliy!

ITs sooo much fun! and theres shed loads of money in the Scipii way of life!

[tibilicus]

Dont forget killing spain aswell. I have curently although not played this campaign for ages. Sout greece, all original carthage provinces, nearlly all the Numidian ones i think, most of spain and im to populer with the senate not reached egypt yet allthough they attaked me i will sort them out. Any way having acsess to such a good Navy and being tiped on Sicly from the start theres so many possible routs to win and it very easy to overshadow your fellow Romans glory aswell. dont know why they play so bad as the A.I. So i agree with you Beefy there fun to play with, very fun to play with.

[Craterus]

I;m loving the Scipii Campaign, most fun out of all 3 roman factions

I haven't played Brutii but I think Scipii is more fun than Julii.. I had fun with them anyway..

What's their elite boats called?

[Arcanum]

However, that's not to say I don't have problems. Do you have any idea how annoying it is when you have two armies bribed out from under your nose, and a city with it? I don't know how much Carthage was spending, but I got a little pissed off and switched to Germania after Carthage bribed a) Thapsus in turn 10+ with 10 units still in there preparing to move on Leptis Magna, and b) Carthage 4 turns later with an almost-full stack in there waiting to embark for Sparta! *screams*

I thought the AI diplomats were supposed let themselves get bribed and just stand around doing nothing. Hmmmph.

Hello there,
Oh my first post here, how exciting.
Anyway, I read around 2 pages or so without that beeing mentioned, so I wanted to take action and tell you what I did against all this bribing:

I had totally the same problem in an earlier game, so I developed something that was easy, though effective. Using assassins, I killed every diplomat in cartage, and that was the begin of my empire. No more bribing, no more big unit losses.

Now I control half Spain, the Gauls, Carthage,Numidia, Sicily of course and I'm about to get the other half of the world aswell, in form of Egypt.
But somehow that game got a bit colourless so I stopped and began another game. :)

regards,
Arcanum

[pezhetairoi]

Haha, I'm playing the Scipii now in Mundus Magnus, and it's been highly entertaining. Seeing as I have plenty of time to waste as it is, I shall regale you with tales.

I formed my first grand army, as is my wont, at Croton (in MM you start with Capua and Croton), to cross over to Messana as was the senate mission. Taking it, I proceeded to manhandle Lilybaeum, and Syracuse. I was expecting the Senate to send me on to Hadrumetum (Thapsus) next, but lo and behold! They sent me to Salona. Fascinating. I thought they were just trying to break up my contiguous empire, so I just took it, thinking NOW i can get back to that planned assault on Carthago I had in mind...

But NO! The Senate had other plans for me. They sent me to *drumrolls...* Patavium! Now why the hell is that? That's Julii territory! Then I looked, and I saw the Julii floundering around in blood as red as their tunics, so I took it for the Julii, and kept it. Leaving my little patch of Illyricum to build its paved roads and markets, I left for Carthage. Then halfway down the Adriatic in my little fleet (which has grown into a nasty 10-bireme affair by now, in turn 15 mind you) I am told to turn east to Greece and take Athens, since the Brutii are so inept they haven't done anything about it. Sigh. I figured at this point that my invasion of Carthage was pretty much done for, and since Greece was bloody rich, I decided to lock my 1st Legion into Greece as a regional force. I began a second one on Sicily for Carthage.

1st Legion had a nice hard fight with the Macedonians and Greeks, eventually taking the whole Greek area up to Macedonia itself and Sardica (RTW Bylazora). In this conflict I tackled no less than 5 full-stacks, but eventually came out tops. Thankfully, thanks to newly balanced MM faction characters, Macedonia no longer churns out LL like nobody's business.

2 Legion swept through Carthage's territory with great ease, until it arrived at Lepcis Magna where two fullstacks attempted to contest the town with me (their last African foothold) from opposite direction. It was quite a battle, as my army prepared to face one then the other, only to discover that they opted instead to join into one line and come at me from one corner of the map. So I played along and shattered their infantry line while my cavalry rolled them up from the flank, though admittedly not without some trouble.

Things started going pretty fast now. 1st Legion left for Asia Minor to take out Seleukeia (they declared on me, as did the Ptolemaics, because I bribed Halicarnassus, Side, Ipsus and Sardis from under their noses in 4 turns. :P). Numerous fights led to the capture of all southern Asia Minor all the way to Antioch. 2nd Legion left for Egypt, which had initiated hostilities, and, meeting only 12 units' worth of resistance spread over 3 armies on the way, it took Alexandria and Memphis in a dazzlingly quick campaign. Leaving one diplomat to guard the approaches from Thebes, 2nd Legion leaves for the Levant to take out Egyptian possessions there.

Meanwhile, new armies have been formed, 3rd Legion in Greece and 4th Legion in Patavium. These march eastwards. 3rd Legion was formed just in time, as Thrace launched a heavy assault with one fullstack on Sardica. (Wow.) It was a hard fight that destroyed a fifth of my army, but 3rd legion won, mauled by Thracian militia cavalry (which I stupidly gave 7 melee attack) that made up the bulk of the full-stack. While Thrace shook in its boots and 3rd legion retreated to lick its wounds, 4th legion systematically took Aemona, Iuvavum and Aquincum, the last one by bribe. Singidunum fell to the glitter of gold a turn later.

Meanwhile 3rd Legion had taken Naissus, one of the linchpins of the Thracian defence. It now crossed the black sea to attack Mazaka, which was threatening undefended Asia Minor. 1st Legion was moving for Hatra at this time, after fighting off 3 consecutive Seleucid armies threatening Tarsus. Dunno what they saw in a depopulated town that doesn't even have a militia barracks yet.

4th legion took up the responsibility of the campaign in Thrace, while 5th Legion was formed in anticipation of an Egyptian attack on Lepcis Magna, which seemed the logical step to do since west Africa was undefended. Three turns later Lepcis Magna was taken and assaulted by the only Egyptian fullstack I have ever seen in the whole damned game. I let them have it, because although I could have relieved the siege, I preferred to have an army trapped in a city rather than outside it.

5th Legion besieged Lepcis with numerical inferioprity, and the Egyptians sallied out quickly. Very quickly. They were also routed equally quickly. Can someone explain why MM Nile Spearmen LOVE forming phalanx in LOOSE FORMATION?

After recapturing Lepcis Magna 5th marched on to Cyrene. By now 1st Legion had taken Hatra, 3rd had taken Mazaka and was going on to attack Pontus (which had really always been at war with me but never had enough troops to do more than make me laugh and give my diplomats target practice) at Sinope. 2nd Legion had been spectacularly successful in the Levant, taking Sidon and Jerusalem by storm and Damascus by bribe, and Petra after a pretty dry march.

At this point in time I began catching many spies from my erstwhile ally Numidia in Carthage, so I figured this was the time when I started a campaign against them to pre-empt. But they pre-empted me, trapping the Carthage units of 6th Legion in the city. Unfortunately, the remaining units from Lilybaeum, Messana, Syracuse and Hadrumetum of my all-cavalry 6th Legion were enough to massacre them. Pathetic javelin-men.

The campaign therefore ends with 1st Legion in Thebes, about to move on to Pselkis, 2nd Legion just leaving Hatra in ruins on the way to Arbela, 3rd Legion just taken Sinope and wondering what the hell to do with it (since it has only 450 population). 4th Legion is sitting around Seutopolis with the last Thracian full-stack grand army trapped inside it (it is scared of the excessive numbers of militia cavalry it sees in the city). 5th Legion has cleared the Aegean Island provinces as a pastime while waiting for Cyrene to complete its militia barracks and stables. 6th Legion is about to embark on a punitive expedition on Cirtan, with a pleasantly singing complement of 3 hastati trailing a turn behind to man the rams. I have 5 full-stack fleets of triremes, quinqueremes and corvus quinqueremes floating around in the sea.

Looking good. I'm going to focus my efforts east, now. Onwards to Susa!

[Tricky Lady]

I just (well, three weeks ago actually) finished a Scipii campaign with the MM mod too. It was particularly fun.

My first stage of expansion went along the lines that the Scipii usually expand in the vanilla game too (so first Sicily, and then Hadrematum, Carthago and so on). I ignored a few senate missions to blockade Greek ports or to conquer provinces up north. The early battles against Carthago were okay but not particularly hard. Their cities fell with ease. One thing I was pleasantly surprised by was the strength of some rebel cities. I actually lost a young promising general in the siege of Syracuse, ending a direct Scipio bloodline from its beginning.
I also allied with Numidia at this time. This was an alliance that would hold until they decided to backstab me just after I conquered Rome, and got to 50 provinces. Nasty neighbours!
When the war against Carthago seemed to become a cakewalk, I decided to listen to the Senate, and go for Sparta. I noticed that the Brutii had a foothold in Northern Greece too (present-day Albania) so I decided not to lose too much time and I conquered Greece up to Thermon and Athens (the Brutii having conquered Larissa, and all continental Macedonian possession in the meantime).
When the Carthagians had lost their most important African provinces (their "empire" consisted now of Cyrene and Corduba), I loaded my most promising general with his stack in a fleet and set sail for Corduba. When I conquered that city, I gifted it to the Iberians, only to see it rebel 3 turns later (and switching back to Carthago). I didn't check the garrison, but I am quite sure they were all peasants. Nothing to worry about; they'll go rebel when I conquer their last town (Cyrene).

Around 230Bc the Egyptians started crossing my desert border in the Lepcis Magna province, so I thought they'd declare war soon. They didn't so I took the initiative and attacked one of their full stacks. That was the beginning of a long and bloody war. I conquered the last Egyptian stronghold (in Arabia at that time) around 190Bc. During this time I had to withdraw once from their territories as they had depleted my only campaigning army to less than half of its original strength. I licked my wounds, and came back with a vengeance. I noticed that, once I captured their Nile cities, their empire collapsed entirely. From that moment on I haven't fought chariots or pharaoh's bowmen anymore.
At the same time that I started a war against the Ptolemies, I did some Aegean island-hopping too, conquering Crete, Rhodos and that small island north of Athens. As I was waging war against the yellow armies in the south, I landed an expeditionary force in Minor Asia too (Egypt having conquered all former Seleucid possessions in Minor Asia). Their cities didn't put up a huge fight. The only problem I ran into was when I had to fight a few stacks in one turn when I was sieging Side (had to fight 3 battles in a row). When I conquered Tarsus, after a hard battle, my young general (who had gained a couple of battle-hardening retinues and two or three additional stars) was slain by an Egyptian assassin. That was a tough moment As I always put a general in charge of my armies, the expansion was stopped until a new general arrived.
Something nice I noticed during this game. Egypt expanded at cost of the Seleucid Empire, conquering up to Seleucia, but our grey friends striked (stroke?) back. Yes! So I decided to send a diplomat and gift them some denarii, hoping that they'd built up their armies.

So now my empire stretches from Sicily to Greece, Minor Asia, part of the Middle East, Africa and Aegyptus. Haven't decided yet if I'm going to try to conquer the Julii and Brutii too...

[pezhetairoi]

...your grey friends *struck* back :D But grammar aside, pretty interesting, Carthage actually made it to Cyrene... o_O They are always pushovers in my game, because by the time they've finished hurling themselves at Syracuse, they've killed off all their elephants.

But yes, the good thing about MM is that their rebel cities are really good. Some you have to crack by starvation or storm, and some you can fight in the field. But they are all, each of them, challenging in the right geographical locations.

[hellheaven1987]

Hello there,
Oh my first post here, how exciting.
Anyway, I read around 2 pages or so without that beeing mentioned, so I wanted to take action and tell you what I did against all this bribing:

I had totally the same problem in an earlier game, so I developed something that was easy, though effective. Using assassins, I killed every diplomat in cartage, and that was the begin of my empire. No more bribing, no more big unit losses.

Now I control half Spain, the Gauls, Carthage,Numidia, Sicily of course and I'm about to get the other half of the world aswell, in form of Egypt.
But somehow that game got a bit colourless so I stopped and began another game. :)

regards,
Arcanum

Bribing? I never face this problem, probably because I finish Carthage too fast! (in 10 turns) Anyway, using assassins is really a good way. I have mention before the Spanish, and I finally finish them by using assassin to kill all the family members! And I did the same thing for Gaul (and they should thanks me because I save their territory from Julii-keep them for myself.), Julii and Brutii (from other Rome factions, I simply use them as my assassin's training tool.) It's quite effective as the faction without any family members would simply go rebel, and it's much easier to take them. And one advantage for assassins is the faction won't declare war to you, so just simply kill anyone you don'y like!