The Seleucid Empire

[BHCWarman88]

I apodted my Sassdian Army on BI now

now I jsut got to Train my Seleciud Amry (I mean Retruict) on RTW SP..

[Seamus Fermanagh]

[read in Shatneresque]

Caffeine levels...too...high. Must...tone down...enthusi...asm.

[AwesomeArcher]

I love the selucids they are a great all around faction. I love the cataphracts and companions. The Silver shield pikeman and legions make a great team. Elephants are also good too. Although they do need some better archers, but if you want a little edge like i do, make silver arrowed archers to help you out a little bit.

[Piko]

Has anyone here played RTRPE? The Seleucids are overpowered A LOT in that version...

[Avicenna]

Well, they were supposed to be very powerful.

[BHCWarman88]

RTRPE?? never heard of it..

[Simmons]

RTRPE?? never heard of it..

Rome Total Realism - Platinum Edition

[BHCWarman88]

Oh Ok

[Lorenzo_H]

The Selucids rock don't they? Brilliant starting positions, good variety of troops (Scythed chariots and elephants? Legionaries? I'm in...) and alround decent selection of everything. I think I will play these guys next.

[Viriatus]

Good afternonn, good morning or good night to all of you, according to the time zone you're living... I start to beg you sorry about my english and to thank you for your patience.

I've played seleucia for a short campaign in medium/medium and i won...Here is what i've done:

The Seleucids are very rich and have a well balanced military power (if you don't piss of parthia until the right time...) You start with a very extensive Empire where the cities mainly those in the east (Hatra and Seleucia) are separated from the main core.What you need to do in the first place is too get some money, wish is an easy task for the seleucid...You can read general frogbeastegg manual and do what she advises to get some money.

No you got money. Use it during some turns to garrison your city with militia hoplites. Meanwhile you got to face some problems...Hatra, Seleucia and Sardis. These settlements need to evolve military to get auto-suficiency...You well need to have in each one a Stable and Barracks until you can use at least, levy pikemen and greek cavalry or schited chariots.In Hatra and Seleucia i find important to build archery ranges for archers...In sardis you have the cretan archers. This is what you have to do to put them military independent.

Now let's talk about WAR!When you get a fine garrison to Tarsus, do the effort to build a little army and move in the direction of sardis and build a fort to defend your most important economical city from Pontus. Let's conquer some settlements now... Conquer Halicarnasus ASAP and Palmyra. Do not worry about the other arabian provinces. You deal with them latter. Create another army and move it to the mountain to a central place from Damascus, Antioch and Palmyra. This army will help you to cut the constant Egyptian attacks...Armenia is problably now running for hatra (They always are)... Do not worry about it... They won't do nothing important if you have a nice garrison in the city. Let them attack...Only sally out the fort in the last turn before the city falls or if the city is facing a revolution. Do everything you can to keep hatra!If you lose hatra you will problably loose seleucia too...If it happens, now big deal, cause you are looking to the mediterranian... Now your big problem!Egyptians. They are realy annoying and are always pestering you...Got to teach them a lesson. Build a Navy, cause you are going to hit them where the sun doesn't shine!Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes. Create a well ballanced army, get your best attaking general and your best spy, clear the way with your ships, and invade Alexandria. If you conquer the city, exterminate the populace, destroy everything you can, especially military buildings. After all you hate them! Retrain your troops if possible before you move to the next city. Send your spy before you, for he can manage to open the gates, and easy the invasion. Continue destroying every thing you can in egyptian settlements, and move to Jerusalem, this time to stay (After all your migthy general needs a reward don't you think?). Start training an army similar to this one but this time you are coming to stay and not to slain every one...Bring forth garrisons to defend youself from surprise attacks when you conquer the city's...Do not worry about culture penalty...When you enter memphis to stay the remaining Egyptians will bow to you! Meanwhile, train a little army to invade cyprus... And then you have won the short campaign...If you want revenge from Armenia, Pontus and Parthia, do the same thing to those factions.

Alea jacta est.

[BHCWarman88]

The Selucids rock don't they? Brilliant starting positions, good variety of troops (Scythed chariots and elephants? Legionaries? I'm in...) and alround decent selection of everything. I think I will play these guys next.

Yeah,pretty cool..


"Good afternonn, good morning or good night to all of you, according to the time zone you're living... I start to beg you sorry about my english and to thank you for your patience.

I've played seleucia for a short campaign in medium/medium and i won...Here is what i've done:

The Seleucids are very rich and have a well balanced military power (if you don't piss of parthia until the right time...) You start with a very extensive Empire where the cities mainly those in the east (Hatra and Seleucia) are separated from the main core.What you need to do in the first place is too get some money, wish is an easy task for the seleucid...You can read general frogbeastegg manual and do what she advises to get some money.

No you got money. Use it during some turns to garrison your city with militia hoplites. Meanwhile you got to face some problems...Hatra, Seleucia and Sardis. These settlements need to evolve military to get auto-suficiency...You well need to have in each one a Stable and Barracks until you can use at least, levy pikemen and greek cavalry or schited chariots.In Hatra and Seleucia i find important to build archery ranges for archers...In sardis you have the cretan archers. This is what you have to do to put them military independent.

Now let's talk about WAR!When you get a fine garrison to Tarsus, do the effort to build a little army and move in the direction of sardis and build a fort to defend your most important economical city from Pontus. Let's conquer some settlements now... Conquer Halicarnasus ASAP and Palmyra. Do not worry about the other arabian provinces. You deal with them latter. Create another army and move it to the mountain to a central place from Damascus, Antioch and Palmyra. This army will help you to cut the constant Egyptian attacks...Armenia is problably now running for hatra (They always are)... Do not worry about it... They won't do nothing important if you have a nice garrison in the city. Let them attack...Only sally out the fort in the last turn before the city falls or if the city is facing a revolution. Do everything you can to keep hatra!If you lose hatra you will problably loose seleucia too...If it happens, now big deal, cause you are looking to the mediterranian... Now your big problem!Egyptians. They are realy annoying and are always pestering you...Got to teach them a lesson. Build a Navy, cause you are going to hit them where the sun doesn't shine!Alexandria, Memphis, and Thebes. Create a well ballanced army, get your best attaking general and your best spy, clear the way with your ships, and invade Alexandria. If you conquer the city, exterminate the populace, destroy everything you can, especially military buildings. After all you hate them! Retrain your troops if possible before you move to the next city. Send your spy before you, for he can manage to open the gates, and easy the invasion. Continue destroying every thing you can in egyptian settlements, and move to Jerusalem, this time to stay (After all your migthy general needs a reward don't you think?). Start training an army similar to this one but this time you are coming to stay and not to slain every one...Bring forth garrisons to defend youself from surprise attacks when you conquer the city's...Do not worry about culture penalty...When you enter memphis to stay the remaining Egyptians will bow to you! Meanwhile, train a little army to invade cyprus... And then you have won the short campaign...If you want revenge from Armenia, Pontus and Parthia, do the same thing to those factions.

Alea jacta est."



Well Said,
Viriatus..
Pardon my Spelling of the Towns..
I pisses Parthia off Fast, but I massacred them and chase them behind the Mountains Near Seleciua.. Then I got in a Bloody War with Egypt,and I took Sidon,Jeasrulam,and Alexandera and a few other egpytian Towns in like a 25 year time span,and only losing Alexandier in that Time Span.. I am invading the Greece Pesnula, and Took Corthia,Athes and Sparta and Theromloy,and those damn Brutii are tough..

[BHCWarman88]

How you guys Get RTR,by the way??

[Monarch]

How you guys Get RTR,by the way??

http://www.rometotalrealism.org

[Avicenna]

Download it on the internet. Currently, RTR PE is the newest, and requires RTW patched to 1.5. You could also download RTR Gold for 1.2 if you want, but 1.5 should be better.

http://rometotalrealism.org

[BHCWarman88]

ok,thanks m8..

[BHCWarman88]

2 more quick questions m8

Should I get RTR Gold or RTR PE,what is better for me to get??

AND

if I get RTR, could I still play RTR MP and Normal RTW MP, like if I wanted to play Normal RTW one week,and RTR the next week??

[Guyus Germanicus]

To whom it may concern:

I had a very interesting and frustrating combat experience yesterday with Seleucids vs. Parthians. Had worked out an early alliance with Parthia, but they betrayed me and attacked my western city Seleucia with their strong early cav force - two Cataphracts and three units of horse archers. They have done this in almost every game I've played with Seleucids. They go for the jugular early. Last night while they had besieged Seleucia, I attacked their besieging force with a relief force that had 6 jav-cav, three militia hoplites, and 2-3 javelin skirmishers with two generals dressed in heavy cav. (One was the general sallying from Seleucia with two of the phalanx units.) The battle took place at a bridge crossing. The Parthians were positioned right across from the bridge which meant that my crossing to attack was going to be hard contested. I tried to send the jav-cav across the bridge, but they clogged the bridge and wouldn't move across, instead, opting to throw their javelins and running back onto the bridge so that I couldn't "establish" on the other side of the bridge, and couldn't get the cav to just simply cross. [It only occurred to me afterwards that perhaps they would have behaved differently if I had turned off "fire at will" and simply instructed them to go across the bridge.]

In any case, after suffering some minor attrition losses, I pulled my jav-cav back across to my side of the bridge and had my three phalanx units push across under heavy fire from the horse archers. Once the first phalanx reached the other side, I charged both my generals across the bridge to engage one of the three horse archers so I could get the Parthian cav moved away from the bridge. The cataphracts went after my generals naturally. One of the horse archers broke. The other two were engaged with my phalanxes but I was able to finally get my 6 units of jav-cav across the bridge. I think I got lucky. The generals routed the cataphracts, which amazed me, but they got some help from the javelin cavalry. Two phalanx units took heavy casualties, about 50% depleted. Jav-cav suffered moderate losses. Two horse archers got away relatively unscathed. But the siege was broken and the cataphract threat was ended. Parthia will not recover. My reinforced army is now besieging Susa.

The behavior of the jav-cav on the bridge was extremely frustrating. I couldn't get them to simply move across. I think I've already diagnosed the problem with the "fire at will" command. But, comments are welcome.

[Phoenix]

Did you turn off skirmish mode for your javelin cavalry? They start with it on and that will cause them to automatically retreat from enemy units that get too close. I never had trouble having them attack with Fire at Will on so I don't think it's that.

[Guyus Germanicus]

I think you're on to something, Phoenix. I think I will test drive your idea in a custom battle when I get home from work. Many thanks.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Phoenix -

Your advice about turning off squirmish mode was exactly correct. I set up a battle in the custom battle option putting two Parthian cataphracts and three units of horse archers on the other side of the Jordan River bridge. I attacked them with six units of jav-cav and one general. The jav-cav got across the bridge in good order because squirmish mode was turned off.

Many thanks.

[Guyus Germanicus]

To Whomitmayconcern,

Have learned to love both the Seleucids and the Carthaginians. There are a couple strategies that both factions, I feel, have to adopt in the early going to survive the "all vs one" predicament both these factions seem to face in their early games. One is simply - buying up mercenaries. Demetrius, the governor assigned to Damascus, has to get up off his duff and slip over the border into rebel land (Bostra's area) and buy the three or four mounted mercenary units available. Invariably, the first real threat to the Seleucids is Egypt. Adding four mounted merc units to the Damascus garrison makes defense of that city more realistic. Demetrius can glide back and forth short distances between Damascus and Antioch to deal with threats to the capital. Likewise, for the Gov of Sardis. He must buy up Cretan archers, slingers, peltasts and Merc hoplites to man his defenses. Then, as soon as practicable, Antioch must send two jav-cav units to Sardis to give it a fighting chance to survive. The threat to Sardis is not quite as severe, I've found, than the ones to Damascus, Hatra, and Seleucia.

Building priorities in the early going are (1) get cavalry stables built in Antioch pronto, and (2) get stables built in Seleucia. These two cities are too far apart to give each other any mutual support if quick threats arise. For Seleucia, Parthia is the immediate threat. The Parthians have one stack of Cataphracts/horse archers that can menace the eastern part of the empire. If you eliminate this threat, you can usually follow up and take Susa. If Susa falls, the Parthians are all but finished. They are cash poor to start with. Take out their best early units and one city, and they're pretty much done for.

Armenia is a bit different. Their cities are much farther away, and they can and will send large stacks at you at regular intervals. I'm usually able to cope on that front by leaking a few units now and then from both Seleucia and Antioch to do a holding action type operation.

Egypt is the tough nut and the biggest threat. Bleeding them down will eventually make both Jerusalem and Sidon vulnerable. But once those two cities are taken, it's the beginning of the end momentum wise.

I haven't quite found the secret of transitioning smoothly to the mid-game yet. I'm refering to getting my cities populations high enough so that I'm cranking out the better units. In my current game I had all of Egypt conquered, Armenia, and most of Pontus but only had two or three cities kicking out LEVY pikeman, one step above militia pikemen. My best cavalry units were Sarmatian mercs. I had plenty of Greek cav and some elephants. But they're not quite as good and as "all purpose" as the Sarmatians. Taking on Rome and their families requires top notch units. But your cities have to be large enough and well-developed enough to crank out the better units. I'm sure I'll eventually find the right finessing of tax policy to pull it off. One recent game, however, I was so cash poor in the early going because the five faction combination fighting me was relentless. I couldn't afford a pro-population growth tax policy because I needed every denarii to fight Pontus, Greeks, Egyptians, Parthians and Armenians all at once. Once some of the war pressure is off, the money will start rolling in, especially if you have Rhodes under your wing. But getting there can sometimes be a crimp on "growing" your cities. It helps if you can capture some enemy cities that were grown well by your opponents. But if that doesn't happen, it's a slow process. After three months of constant play I can say I'm still learning how to make that transition and getting some cities grown whilest I'm fighting off the five sisters - E, A, Parth, TGC, & Pont.

I welcome any comments, reflections or other's personal experiences with Seleucids. I love this faction. They are well-rounded and well positioned for world conquest. Their capital is perfectly positioned from a public order standpoint to make Pontid, Armenian and Egyptian cities easy to govern. Once you capture Egypt's Memphis, the Egyptian cities become even less troublesome and very cash productive, especially Salamis!! Take Rhodes and you get a good healthy trade/cash boost. Take Corinth, and public order issues should be no more than a minor problem for the rest of the campaign. Seleucids are in a better position than most of the other factions for seizing all of the ancient wonders.

more later

[Phoenix]

I haven't played a full campaign with the Seleucids yet but here's what I did in my short game with them.

In Asia Minor I had Alexander hire Cretan archers and a unit of hoplite mercenaries and along with the troops in Sardis attack Halicarnassus in the first turn. The rebels will sally since Halicarnassus has a big garrison but it's easy to bog them down at the main gateway if you rush your troops there quick enough. After that I recruit a few more militia hoplites and hired more mercs and then took Rhodes and Pergamum. The Greeks offered me a cease-fire after I got Pergamum which I took so I could trade with them. After that I took Nicomedia and then concentrated on growing my towns and beating the armies Pontus sent.

With Egypt I also went on the offensive in the first turn, and took Sidon with troops that were available in Antioch and Damascus plus some mercs and the Faction Leader. After recruiting some militia cavalry I went after Jerusalem as well which is rather weakly defended if Egypt doesn't send an army to the area. Once Cleitos comes of age I gave him whatever troops I had available and some mercs and took Palmyra, Bostra, and Salamis with him. Egypt is much weaker after this, and I used the time this buys to upgrade Antioch and Sidon enough to recruit Phalanx Pikemen and militia cavalry. The militia cavalry's javelins work well on chariots so I used them instead of Greek Cavalry against Egypt.

In the East, I sent Demetrius to Hatra and had him hire Sarmatian and Scythian mercenaries whenever they became available. Armenia starts out with a Cataphract unit but they can't build more for awhile and when they besieged Hatra I destroyed it by charging them in the rear with Sarmatian mercs while they were pinned by militia hoplites. Seleucia; I upgraded quickly so it could recruit Levy Pikemen and hired 3 Eastern mercs. The Parthians start with 2 Cataphract units so I recruited as many Levy Pikemen as possible before the Parthians besieged it. When they attacked I placed all my troops in the center and when the Cataphracts got close enough I attacked them with the 3 Eastern mercs to weaken them but after awhile the Cataphracts just routed...I'm sure that was luck, but with them gone the rest of the Parthians were easy to beat. Afterwards I took Susa and Arsakia.

That's as far into the game as I went so far though I'll probably use the same starting strategy when I start a full campaign with them except that I'll recruit some Scythed Chariots in Seleucia.

As for growing cities, the Asklepios temples give a health bonus which is also a population growth bonus so it's good at helping cities grow, but towns can't recruit troops and grow at the same time unless you leave taxes at low, and I'm not sure how well that works...I found that it's best to limit most troop recruiting to cities and large towns close to becoming cities. Upgrading farms ASAP also helps especially with Damascus and the other desert provinces.

[Guyus Germanicus]

Phoenix,

Your strategy and tactics make complete sense to me. I've never sent Demetrius off to Hatra. But if I took out the Egyptians early at Sidon and Jerusalem, I could do that. I usually just use him as the focal point for building a merc army to fend off the aggressive Egyptians. (I usually play the righteous non-aggressive, peace loving empire role and let the other guy start the ball rolling. Then once they attack I campaign until they're dead.) Usually, I wait for the 1st newbie family member or adopted General to come on the seen in the first 3-4 turns and send him to "general" the holding force at Hatra. In the games I've played with Seleucids so far, the Armenians have not committed their one cataphract in the early stages, whereas the Parthians always seem to commit both of their units early to attacking Seleucia, the city.

Perhaps if I took Sidon and Salamis out early, I would have fewer Egyptian headaches later.

Your Sardis theatre campaign makes sense too. I tend to wait until I can reinforce Alexander with a couple of jav-cav before I allow him to go on the offensive. But that's me, being cautious.

You handle the defense of Seleucia differently than I do. I rush to build stables then start cranking out jav-cav as fast as I can. My reasoning being, that if Parthia besieges Seleucia with only cav, I will have to sally to drive them off eventually. I had one bad experience in my first game sallying with what was primarily an infantry force facing horse-archers and cataphracts. I lost my general and most of my defending force. (I think I cheated and restored the game and tried something different after that disaster.) But it traumatized me into concentrating on building cavalry early in Seleucia.

Without mercs, it would be really tough going for the Seleucids.

I haven't tried the "growth" temple yet. Victoria seems to have a one track mind on Selecid temple advice - Dionysus uber alles. I like to build the Hephaestia temple in Antioch and Tarsus to get the extra benefit for troop building. I think I could probably try taking Salamis earlier than I do. Salamis is so close to Antioch that once taken, along with holding Memphis, provides mucho dinaro throughout the rest of the game. Surprisingly, I've never had my flank attacked by an amphibious landing near Antioch by an Egyptian force coming from Salamis.

Pontus gave me my first and only experience, so far, of having a protectorate. In this one game I had bloodied their nose in an awesome battle at the pass just northwest of Tarsus. I had a massive army moving toward their capital just north of Antioch over the mountains (have forgotten the city's name), and had taken Ancrya from them. I had my diplomat offer them protectorate status, and they took it, to my surprise.

One thing I discovered just recently, (must have had my head in the sand), is that the higher levels of port docking facilities you build doesn't just increase the size of the naval unit you can build there, it also increases the sea trade capacity of the port. That double benefit motivates me to upgrade my port facilities even sooner than I was used to doing. Also, I added a mod to the code that was available on the totalwar.com site that allows you to get a public order benefit for building academies, scriptoriums, etc. So, now, whether I have a governor in the city or not, I try to build an academy in some of my larger cities to help with public order. If I post a governor there later, so much the better for both him and the city.

For the most part, money has not been "the" problem for me in the early going with Seleucia. The challenge has always been finding enough reasonably good quality units to maintain a coherent defense for their five front war. (Cavalry always being in short supply in the early game.)

I need to do better at farm upgrades. Your end point is well-made.

[Phoenix]

Phoenix,

You handle the defense of Seleucia differently than I do. I rush to build stables then start cranking out jav-cav as fast as I can. My reasoning being, that if Parthia besieges Seleucia with only cav, I will have to sally to drive them off eventually. I had one bad experience in my first game sallying with what was primarily an infantry force facing horse-archers and cataphracts. I lost my general and most of my defending force. (I think I cheated and restored the game and tried something different after that disaster.) But it traumatized me into concentrating on building cavalry early in Seleucia.

That's interesting, Armenia sent some all-cav armies against me but Parthia never did even though they attacked Seleucia several times before I took Arsakia. I guess they were too poor without Susa.

I haven't tried the "growth" temple yet. Victoria seems to have a one track mind on Selecid temple advice - Dionysus uber alles.

Be careful with them, Dionysus temples quickly give family members some very bad traits so try not to leave any family members in the towns with them.

Also, I added a mod to the code that was available on the totalwar.com site that allows you to get a public order benefit for building academies, scriptoriums, etc. So, now, whether I have a governor in the city or not, I try to build an academy in some of my larger cities to help with public order. If I post a governor there later, so much the better for both him and the city.

I have Bug-Fixer so my academies give law bonuses as well...made managing huge cities much easier for me.

For the most part, money has not been "the" problem for me in the early going with Seleucia. The challenge has always been finding enough reasonably good quality units to maintain a coherent defense for their five front war. (Cavalry always being in short supply in the early game.)

Archers also do a good job of handling Horse Archers as long as they don't use their Cantabrian Circle, which the AI doesn't have them do much AFAIK.

[Empirate]

Concerning Parthians I can only say: use Militia Cavalry to the fullest of it's abilities. And these are far more impressive than anything I ever expected from them! I'm playing my first Seleucid game right now: vh campaign, m battles, vanilla R:TW 1.5. Attacking Egypt like crazy, I somehow forgot that there might be other threats, viz. Armenians and Parthians. Especially the latter have proved more than a little annoying. They moved a largish army toward Seleucia (which they seem bound to do at some point, judging from you guys' experience).

This contained their starting Cataphracts, two generals (the leading one with four stars), three horse archers, three Eastern Infantry, two Hillmen, and three skirmishers. All I had to stop them was my starting general in Seleucia (two stars), three Militia Hoplites, three Peltasts, and four Militia Cavalry. They laid siege, and I could see there was no way I could bring reinforcements this far east, with my main armies occupied directly south of Jerusalem, busy slaying Egyptians left and right.

I sallied forth. The pre-battle-screen rated my chances something like three to eight. The Parthians allowed me time to march my troops out of town in good order (stupid, but the AI always allows you to deploy in piece). I put my Militia Hoplites in a half-hexagon, with Peltasts directly behind them, and the General backing them up. Two groups of two Militia Cavalry each were put far on the left respectively right flank:

........................MH........................
MC.MC..........MH..P..MH..........MC.MC
......................P.....P.....................
.......................Gen.......................

I sent the Militia Cavalry around the enemy flanks, trying to lure away the Cataphracts, who seemed to be my biggest problem. These pulled back behind the main fighting line, and I couldn't get my Militia Cav get to them without being shot at by Horse Archers. So I tried to abuse the AI's skirmishing, charging one Militia Cavalry at one Horse Archer at a time, only to withdraw. This was mainly to allow other Militia Cav a shot at the enemy without being snipered by Horse Archers. I soon realized that in a direct duel Militia Cavalry-Horse Archers, my men fared better - Cantabrian Circle minimized casualties by enemy fire while killing more than a few Horse Archers. I even managed to draw one Cataphract out and get it to pursue one unit of Militia Cav, who eluded easily. Suddenly I saw a chance to strike at a Horse Archer: Some Eastern Inf on the Parthian right flank had panicked due to constant enemy presence in it's flank and rear, and was fleeing, which exposed one Horse Archer. My Militia Cav rushed in, hitting the Horse Archers, who were just beginning to break away to skirmish, in the rear, quickly slaughtering them. At another place, I was able to rout the second unit of Horse Archers only a few moments after. Some enemy skirmishers were beginning to waver due to these losses.

Only my Militia Cav had seen battle yet, and all of their regiments had been reduced to about two-thirds strength. But their stamina held up, as well as their courage. They had spent their missiles, so I had to march up the infantry in tight formation. One unit of Cataphracts, two Hillmen, two Eastern Infantry, and one of the generals charged directly into the Sarissas of three fresh Militia Hoplites. I didn't expect my main battle line (if you can call three units that...) to last more than five seconds or so, but to my amazement they kept standing. The Cataphracts had killed about half their number on my spears, but had broken down the Phalanx, and it was hand-to-hand now, in which my Militia Hoplites could be expected to fare poorly. At least the Cataphracts and general had been brought to a standstill. My general (with Rally turned on, just in case) rushed in and helped out in the melee, while my Peltasts pelted (hence the name...) the enemy with javelins. All of this wouldn't have been enough, but one unit of Militia Cavalry was free now, and routed most Hillmen and Eastern Infantry by charges to the rear. Another Militia Cavalry was then able to hit the engaged Parthian general in the rear, who was slaughtered, which caused the Cataphracts to flee. I let them go and reformed by badly mangled infantry to receive the second charge of another Cataphract and general. These never arrived, though, as both were double-teamed by Militia Cav and my general and quickly made to flee the field.

Militia Cavalry won the day for me. They're a good counter to Horse Archers: Cantabrian Circle minimizes casualties, and also they're fast enough to catch the HA if they have a bit of surprise going for them. Furthermore, the constant threat to enemy flanks they can provide really makes the difference when facing junk infantry that only pose a problem due to their numbers - like Eastern Inf and Hillmen. After standing or marching for a while under constant morale damaging circumstances, the first unit you throw at them will rout them.

After this battle, I have made Militia Cav a staple of my early Seleucid armies, and they have more than this once proven their worth. They're easy to retrain, too, and cheap to maintain. If you lose them, you don't weep, and once the enemy is routed, they round up a lot of enemy casualties you'd miss out on otherwise.

Sorry for the rather too-long post, folks, but I just had to share this war-story!

[Guyus Germanicus]

Empirate,

No apologies necessary. I enjoyed the read. Your jav-cav did, indeed, save the day. I may try some testing using the Cantabrian circle in the Custom battle arena against horse archers just to test drive your experience for myself.

I venture to say that without your judicious use of the jav-cav the cataphracts probably would have gotten the better of your line eventually, but only because you had so few M hoplites. Two more units of hoplites or even a couple more units of jav-cav would have made the combat a little less challenging. But sometimes we just don't have a choice when necessity and circumstances dictate our actions.

In any case, good show!

[ezrider]

I just started a campaign with Seleucia. Had tried previously but kept getting into trouble early on. After completing a the game with Carthage, I gave Seleucia another try and have been successful thus far.
I play on H/VH and have got to the point where I could see myself dominating the near east.

I started out by sending diplomats far and wide, flogging my map, trade rights and alliances for as much cash as poss. I prefer to ask for tribute per turn as this makes a dent in what my competitors can build each turn. I built as much infrastructure(farms, walls, roads traders etc) as poss. trying to bump up my Economy and population. Then I decided to beef up security before I was betrayed by the factions with whom I had allied(Its guaranteed).

I guess I turtled for the first 10 turns or more, but then I had enough decent troops to build 3 half stacks. Using a glut of mercenaries I took Harlicarnassus, then I took Sidon and Jerusalem, as well as having to exterminate the half stacks of skirmisher armies(why??) the Egyptians were sending into the field. General, Jav Cav and my own skirmishers took names since they're the only ones fast enough the catch the buggers.

-I took Susa after I was betrayed. The Parthians chose to remove their garrison and send it to a fort I had build in the pass, north of Seleucia. Go figure
-Hatra came under attack from Armenians(betrayal) but it was a token force.
I have yet to take the nearest rebel town, as I am kinda tied up with Egyptians, but once I get my Elphs from Antioch, i'll send infanty from Damascus to assist.
-The biggest problem of them all is the amount of Rebels armies that appear. They strangle trade and are sometimes big enough to be a real problem. Building armies in places you usually wouldn't is a pain.

Hope the campaign presents few challenges now the initial threat is over. Greece will probably be one of those I can really tangle with.

[Empirate]

In my campaign I have entered more peaceful times now. I had to reduce the Parthians to two provinces (Arabia and the one in the northeast corner of the map) before they stopped annoying me, and of course I killed the Egyptians outright. They hadn't even taken Petra before I was done with them! Pontus was next on the list, and predictably they attacked me at some point, but they never were a challenge for my by-now experienced generals: They fielded mostly fodder infantry, with a few missile cav. Accordingly, it took me all of eight turns to totally destroy them.

Armenia proved a much harder challenge. I didn't have the troops to fight on all fronts at the same time, and they laid siege to Hatra time and again. Once they even managed to take it, but were driven out two years later. By now I had finally subdued everybody else and was able to concentrate on Armenia. The army that had taken the Parthians' capital (right south of the Caspian Sea, don't know the name) was attacked in the field three times before finally reaching Phraaspa. In the first of these battles, I lost my general, who also happened to be my faction leader (8 stars, 9 influence!) to some fugazi chariots who couldn't take the heat. Goddammit! It was such an easy battle, against just a half stack of crap infantry and one very tough Armenian general. They had only lost five men before going crazy. At least they slaughtered most of the enemy general's unit along with my faction leader...
Anyway, I was able to take Phraaspa.

Meanwhile I had built up a second army in the south, which marched up from Hatra and caught the Armenian main force in the open. Their general was six stars, mine was four; they even managed to buy a unit of Sarmatians and one of Scythians right before my nose (didn't have money left to hire them, next turn they rode under the Armenian flag). Furthermore, they had one unit of Cataphract Archers, of whom I had dim, not very nice recollections from one Brutii campaign, and seven units of Heavy Spearmen. I was dismayed to find that these are the equal of Armored Hoplites! I had a nice army with a lot of Phalanx Pike, two Cretan Archers, and a chariot unit. These really made good on the failings of their brethren last year! They totally slaughtered first the Catarchers, then the Sarmatians, and the Heavy Spears proved unable to do ANYTHING to my Pikemen. I totally destroyed a very high-tech army. After that it was mostly mopup, and unspectacular sieges for the last two Armenian cities. The Scythians have since become a little reckless and tried to cross the Caucasus once or twice, but I have established forts in the passes to hold them back.

After I had taken Ephesus, the Greeks finally agreed to an armistice, and trade began again. I have become filthy rich from Aegean trade since, as the Thracians and Macedonians were swayed to trade with me too. The Julii seem to be very powerful, Macedon and Germany are their Protectorates, but neither the Scipii (still limited to their starting provinces) nor the Brutii (only as far as Larissa) have made much headway. Of late, the Brutii have sent some big armies to Greece, and the Greek cities seem to be in some trouble. Probably I should be taking their cities before anybody else does. The Brutii have also landed close to a full stack, led by a captain, right next to my city of Halicarnassus. It might be that after ten turns of comparative quiet, the Seleucid armies are once again in demand. Luckily, I am now able to train Silver Shield Legionnaires in Thebes, as well as War Elephants in Antiochia and Seleucia, and Cataphracts in Memphis. A Hephaestus Pantheon is being built in Alexandria and will provide some very nice exp bonuses to troops produced there (mostly Scythed Chariots for the moment). I'm really looking forward to showing the Romans what REAL Legionnaires look like...

One comment concerning overall strategy: Taking Egypt quickly has proven a good one, but not as critical as I thought. It's equally important to get some quiet in the east and north (Pontus, Armenia, Parthia). That way, you have your back free to attend to more mediterranean options. I STRONGLY recommend allying with one of these, preferably Armenia, for they are hard to get to, and try to orchestrate it so these factions fight each other. If that is not possible (diplomacy still doesn't work very well for me), attack all of them and reduce their city count. Taking a capital quickly is usually enough to cripple them forever. So you only really need to take three to five cities, but take these from all of them equally. Then they are so small they don't pose a threat.
Oh, and take Salamis quickly. The trade income with Tarsus and Antiochia is very nice!

[ezrider]

I am having trouble with thos Armenians. They determined to get Hatra but I had have a pile if militia hoplites there and have recently fought them off easily.
The problem is that there is no natural strike point. They are very far away. I take your point on Salamis, although I can't seem to raise the surplus units to send over. The Egyptians are putting up a good fight and I have recently defeated 2 full stack armies(my spy showed me another on the way). That kind of nonsense needs to be stopped "tout suite".

to Empirate, What year are you in?? You seem to have many high tech buildings. I have nothing like that.

[Empirate]

It's around 240 B. C. in my campaign.
Actually, I have only been teching up recently, and my biggest cities are highly specialized. I've spent most of my gold every turn on building, only training a small military, never more than I needed. I stuck to mostly first-tier-troops, as I didn't need Greek Cavalry (everything they can do can also be done by Militia Cav, and those can skirmish), Levy Pikes are not better than Militia Hoplites (though they beat them one on one), and Phalanx Pikemen were too expensive. I've only recently begun to include chariots in my armies, as well.
So most of my campaign so far has been pretty low tech, but now I'm finally earning the money to go high tech on a bigger scale.