Carthage

**ezrider** · 08-04-2006, 12:07

Its not bad now against Thrace. I am beating large armies quite easily now. I got a couple of heroics against them, but I have to admit theat I had about 90 cretan archers, 12 rSlinger and two units of merc peltasts. The Thracians are horrifically exposed to missile fire as prev. stated and I have taken advantage of that.
[bold]note[/bold] I beat a 1200 strong army of Bastarnae, pikemen & Falxmen + missile support with the above mercenary missile support, casualty riven cav and equally understrength inf.(5 units, merc hoplites/iberians- approx 200 men). I was on a really big hill on the opposite side of the map and when thos guys got to me they were winded, going on tired. After I killed their cav general they were a little easier but I was completely outnumbered and understrength. diff(H/H)

Given what Seamus has said I think that strategic advs such as terrain are less important the harder you play, but bonuses like incr stamina are a bit of a falsehood considering that anybody, including; Sparticus,Ceasar or Achillies would be knackered running up a big hill on a hot day.

**Guyus Germanicus** · 08-04-2006, 17:58

" . . . and Thrace has no good cavalry of it's own."

Thank God!! What an annoying little faction to have to fend off!

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 08-05-2006, 00:37

Usually "little" in most games.

Though, while playing a vanilla game with the numidians wherein I hadmigrated to Crete, Rhodes and Halicarnassus the Thracians owned 12 provinces and had multiple full stack armes ranging around the Balkans.

They even amphibbed and attacked me in the Crimea

I won, of course, but its sort of amazing to run out of arrows/sling bullets and still seem them coming at you despite the losses.

**ezrider** · 08-07-2006, 16:31

I finished my Carthage game

took 3 settlements off the Britons in one go and my last settlement was a heroic
victory against some rebels who'd thrown me out of Carthago Nova.

enjoyable campaign. Just wish that I had got to use my war elephants and sacred band cavalry. I had built a Royal stable in thapsus but by that time I had almost won and the fighting was very far from there. And so it goes.

Things I have learned :

lots of cavalry is good. You can beat pretty much anything with enough cav. Even heavy chariots, I recommend taking out chariots ASAP cos you can't charge their archers until these wheeled destroyers are out of the way. Watching them charge into a plalanx is one the funniest things in the game.

Barbarian infantry and Lybians are good against chariots, although so are Iberians - generally you can skip building lybians(personally i dispise them) unless bored at the end or want something a little better than TM.

Against the romans, you need phalanx troops or else you will lose(*disputable). Badly. You also need plenty of cav support(against a biggish roman army you need at least 4 - I recommend ALWAYS having at the very least 3 in a small army and you want 4 to 8 for a solid field army). Cavalry charges from behind rout the romans really easily. Theres nothing more satisfying than seeing their banners flashing white.

Don't underestimate the usefullness of Iberian infantry. They are the business. Fairly mobile and ok at fighting. they will get routed easy enough if attacked from behind but they are generally dependable. Handy for keeping the ememy from flanking your phalanx, filling gaps and such, can handle light cavalry easily in numbers, sometimes heavy cav. Not great in a siege however.

Kill the romans early with navel superiority. In the early game a navy is vital, After you conquer most of the mediterranian ports, you can disband a lot of it.

Hold onto Caralais, Corduba and especially Sciliy. Anyone who tells you otherwise, is a coward.

**Empirate** · 08-07-2006, 17:46

On the contrary, ezrider, you don't need Phalanx against the Romans. When I took Italy I only used a token force of Libyan Spearmen and some hired mercs from southern Italy. These were accompanied by massive wings of roundshield and longshield cav and some few War Elephants (three regiments in the whole war, I believe it was... couldn't afford more). In the vanguard I sent three or more Numidian Cavalry to annoy, tire and disrupt the Romans, as well as to chase routers.
You won't believe the slaughter concentrated cav charges can produce. Charge isolated units, and units on the flanks, and always engage with at least two cav regiments from opposite sides. This, combined with morale penalties for the proximity of War Elephants, caused at least Hastati to rout instantly. Don't expect the battle to come off easily: I used a lot of Pause to micro my cavalry, so the Romans would be tired out after chasing them for a while, and also to make sure I could have two cav units impacting one Roman inf unit at the same time from different sides. It takes a while to reach this point, but when the time is right, and you order the final charge, the enemy's defeat is absolute. I had many battles in which not a single Roman soldier escaped the field alive. This approach makes for a lot of fun, memorable battles, with no need for Phalanx whatsoever.
I must admit though, once I had to face the by then very powerful Greeks (half stacks of Spartans and full stacks of Armored Hoplites were wandering the Balkans freely...), I reverted to a good anvil against which to smash my cavalry hammer. In that war, Sacred Band Infantry really came into their own!

**ezrider** · 08-07-2006, 17:59

When I took Italy I only used a token force of Libyan Spearmen and some hired mercs from southern Italy. These were accompanied by massive wings of roundshield and longshield cav

Da du hast recht Empirate. Although you had massive wings of cav. When you face the Senate army, I dont think that its so easy. If you surround a unit of trarii with cav and you tend to rout. Although thinking back I remember having merc hoplites, samnite mercs, iberians and possibly one unit of peonis.
I have fought advanced brutii armies with hardcore armoured generals and early cohorts, there was no way that light infantry and cavalry could win.

*I just realised I received Member status, hooray!!!

**Guyus Germanicus** · 08-08-2006, 00:00

Congratulations on membership status, ez!

I just wanted to affirm some of your observations. Yes, I try to field between 4-6 cav units in my field armies. Absolutely right on on that point, I feel! Mobility is important and cav can outmaneuver. (That's why taking the Gauls or the Germans or Brits in an RTW game has not appealed to me.) Elephants are good too, but slower and you have to manuever them judiciously when facing infantry. Long shields, I've found are best (I, too, have not been able to use Chosen band cav yet as my games always seem to end before I can get them to a frontline army. I've used cataphracts a plenty with Seleucids, but not Chosen band.) I like to have plenty of round shields going to the front early as the Roman armies (Scipii) have a lag time issue waiting for stables to be built.

What makes the Senate army so tough is its shear size and length, plus the number of generals accompanying it to the field. You, naturally, want to get your cav behind the Senate line so you have a good shot at the triarii and principes. But the Senate line is long and the generals are usually posted on the flanks. So, you have to fight off the generals and then get around the long line. Perhaps I should test a theory of mine in custom battle - spread the Senate line and distract the generals with flank cavalry, but keep a cav reserve with my general. Then when gaps open in the front of the line, (and they do invariably in these battles with the Senate), charge the reserve through the gaps and start routing the infantry. THEN, go after the generals.

Aside - I often keep an undersize cav unit posted right behind my slingers who I place on the frontline for skirmishing. Slingers can really take a toll on approaching enemy lines especially unsupported phalanx. If an enemy cav unit gets tempted to charge the slingers, I use the cav unit as a shield.

I don't mind Libyans. But if I can produce peoni's and Sacred Band, what's the point save for fodder or line ballast? Iberians can suffice to be my swordsmen and flank supporters with my longshields.

Naval superiority is a must, and easily attained against Scipii if you take Messana early. Once Scipii are off Sicily, the Brutii are vulnerable. Carthage is positioned nicely for grabbing naval superiority, espcially over time. So I concur with you there as well.

I agree with you about the cities too. I don't like surrendering any real estate, especially to the Julii at Caralis or the Spanish a la Cordoba. I hate Cordoba, because it has always been a public order pain in the neck with every faction that I've ever had who possessed it. But for Carthage, it is the frontier outpost and gateway to Spain and southern France. It guards your western frontier in North Africa too. There's absolutely no reason, I feel, for ever surrendering Sicily. Naval units can ferry cavalry from Carthage across and back to Lilybaeum in one turn. Just hit the Romans first and the Greeks second. The Greek supply line is longer than the Roman and the Scipii are the more immediate threat.

Congratulations on your win and your membership status! Try the Seleucids sometime soon and give us your feedback on them.

**Empirate** · 08-09-2006, 16:29

Unfortunately, that point about the Triarii in the Senate army is very much right on... The battle against the Senate army was one of the hardest in my entire Carthage campaign. I went about the Triarii really carefully, distracted and decimated them with Numidians and generally tried to stay the hell out of their way. Only after I had routed most of the enemy army using the detailed above strategy (draw apart, surround single inf unit with at least two, better three cav units, charge home, draw back and repeat) I dared attack the Triarii. They proved quited deadly to roundshield cav due to their low defense, but I quickly managed to polish them off coz their morale was so low by now (enemy general dead, more than half their troops running). Still, I lost about one third of my army in that battle, and perhaps 60% of my roundshield cav. The longshields fared way better.

I'd recommend taking out the Senate's general as early as possible. I usually send out skirmisher cav like Numidians on the flanks, accompanied by heavier cav (longshields or general) a bit further back. The Numidians' job is to draw the enemy flanks apart, but also to draw out the enemy general/other heavy cav units. Once they fire their javelins at some exposed, out-on-the-flank unit, generals will come out to chase them. The Numidians fall back and run away from the general, while two units of heavier cav (the escort of the Numidians) charge into the general's flank and rear. This will mostly get rid of him. Often, the enemy first sends lighter cav, but when those are gone, the general will fairly regularly see to protecting his army's flanks himself. This works so well because Numidians are faster than generals or other heavy cav, and also because you can afford to have them turn round and fight it out, so the enemy general is stopped for the heavier cav to get a shot at his backside. Sacrificing a unit like Numidians for slaughtering the enemy general is well worth it in my opinion.

**ezrider** · 08-10-2006, 10:44

Sacrificing a unit like Numidians for slaughtering the enemy general is well worth it in my opinion.

Its the only job they are good for. Sacrifice.

**Augustus Lucifer** · 09-03-2006, 18:14

Well seeing as how this is a Carthage strategy guide place thing stuff whatchaamajig....I'll add my 2 cents(or 3, but not 4 cuz' I'm cheap, don't hate):

First off I'd like to say thanks to CA for making Carthage it's own culture, because playing all the different cultures makes the game exciting longer. Also, this strategy is based on VH/VH in a campaign I'm currently playing. I play lots of campaigns simultaneously, because I usually get bored at late game and start a new one, no challenge, but that shouldn't stop anyone else from finishing. Ok on to business.

NOTE: This strategy will be divided by region and go by relative time it takes. So before ending turns if you choose to follow this even remotely, than make sure you read all the different regions in that section.

NOTE: If you're good with elephants than they'll greatly help you in this campaign as they can start a siege and crush enemies in small spaces or break the enemy line in a field battle. If you suck with them, you'll find out the hard way that they are just big gold-plated pincushions. Me personally I suck with them but will once in a while use them if I'm rich later on.

NOTE: I'm not going to tell you what types of armies to make, I'm sure you know what you're good with, so make that. On any given day I'd take units I like at low level over units I can't use for crud on higher levels.

NOTE: Also another thing that comes up alot is field battles with city reinforcements. If you have spare cavalry and are winning, pursue the reinforcements to a man as this will leave the city empty.

NOTE: Lastly, individualize your campaign for god's sake. Don't follow every strategy in this post by the letter, or in any other post for that matter. Mix and match or use your thinker to make your own, I know it's annoying but it makes it more fun and allows for a greater feeling of accomplishment.

Carthage starts out with six cities, all on very nice scenic seaside locations. Corduba in southern spain, Carthage and Thapsus on the tip of Africa near Sicily, Lilybaeum on the left of Sicily, and Caralis and Palma the two islands between Spanish Penninsula and Sicily. All of your fronts will eventually be in battle if you don't take your future in your hands first.

I.
Sicily: First, take that big army on Sicily and move it towards Messana(northeast Sicily) and knock those pesky Scipii off the island. For me the Scipii had moved out of the city, so I attacked them in the field and defeated them and their city reinforcements, then took Messana. Now ASAP continue on to Syracuse, refit if you have to but this needs to be quick. Take it, shouldn't be too hard, and try and negotiate ceasefire/alliance/trade rights with the Greeks ASAP, they should have a stranded diplomat on Sicily and be rather open to this if you're nice and catch them when they're attacked elsewhere. Now start two of the cities on Sicily(probably Messana and Lilybaeum) making an army for you, and the other one building a big navy. The navy is key in this campaign so keep it churning if it's all you can do. Keep building these cities up in order raising buildings as well as their main focus military path. Don't bother building all three military buildings in each settlement as they're so close. One for each and ports/shipwright/etc. in all. Now, while you're waiting for you're army keep patroling you're navy and killing Roman vessels as they'll try to land on Sicily, but make sure your navy is big enough to win(normally the Romans don't group more than 2 ships in the same unit).

Spain: I personally found that with all my energy in Sicily and Africa, I couldn't put enough money into Corduba to keep it alive, but I did put enough in to make the loss of it to the Gauls annoying as heck. So I suggest you decide from the getgo whether you want to manage three fronts. If you say yes than good luck with that, this strategy doesn't cover that, I'll just say you need some battle skill and good diplomacy. If not, probably better for now. So pull all your men out, destroy all the buildings you can, and build peasants until you no longer can and ship them to your other settlements, probably Palma and Caralis, and disband them them for population gain. Not only does this help your cities grow and give you some cash, it also makes the city virtually useless to whoever conquers it. Then take that army you pulled out and take over Tingi from the Numidians(below Corduba in africa). That ends this front for the time being.

Palma/Caralis/other small islands: Economy and navy, try not to build military buildings here as it wastes money, unless you are rich and want to waste money. That's it for islands, just follow those guidelines for any other islands you capture(Kydonia/Rhodes/Salamis).

Africa: Carthage is your capital and a fast growing city. If you're working on the Sicilian front there shouldn't be any Roman troubles on mainland Africa. You'll want Carthage to be a military city and just about every other province in Africa when you get them to be economical, because it's no help when your reinforcements take 10 turns to get to you. First off start Thapsus economically(whichever way you do this) and get Carthage building a military. When you're satisfied with your army send it over to take Cirta from Numidia(between Carthage and Tingi), and then continue on to Dimmidi, Nepte, and Lepcis Magna refitting if you need to, but you really shouldn't need to. Also make sure you leave garrisons of around four units of whatever you think you could defend best with in an emergency(no elephants!). Don't take Siwa as it is a good way to hold off Egypt, and when you see Numidia get destroyed, you have fair warning that you're next. While this army is campaigning build another one in Carthage of your best units. The campaigning army will not be done doing all I've just said before you should continue to section II, so just keep it moving as you go on.

II.
Sicily: When you're army is finished building, start on a new one. It's now time to attack the Italian Penninsula. What? you say, it's not as hard as it sounds, even this early and with inferior units. The Scipii will be bent on destroying you and if you've moved fast enough then the Brutii will not yet have expanded. Your navy is key in this endeavor. You should almost have a full stack or at least a half stack of navy by now, but if not you can make due. Take it up to the west side of Italy where you'll find Capua, the only Scipii settlement, and destroy their navy. Make sure you bring your army along. If you time it right you can destroy their army as well by kicking out the boats from under it. Now land on the penninsula and take Capua. This isn't really very hard, especially if you have a full stack of units that you are good with. Now you're going to be on the defensive, as being the loyal romans they are, the Brutii will try and take this back from you. Hold out until you can muster that army in Carthage or Sicily. For faster results merge the two armies you've been building. You'll need a full stack for this next part. Start on two more armies after you take this one, constant military production is key. Take the newly made army by navy to the southern end of Italy and position the navy outside Croton. Don't unload it yet if you can avoid it, wait until the Brutii siege Capua, and then unleash your army on Croton. This should be a rather wasy battle. They won't be deterred yet however. Refit if you must and garrison a couple guys then continue up and siege Tarentum(try to siege from the lowest red area). Leave one cavalry unit halfway between cities just in case you lose the overall battle. This should draw the Brutii's attention and they'll lift the siege and attack you at Tarentum, with reinforcements from the city. Win the battle if you can, but if not at least make sure you destroy every last man of the city reinforcements. Next turn if you won you'll get the city, or if you lost and you managed to kill all the city people and left a cavalry back like I said then move it around the Brutii army and into the city. Bye bye Brutii. Kind of cheap, I know, but Rome having first round units to match your third round units is rather cheap as well, and I have no grievances for the dead. Garrison and build up the Italian cities economically, and make sure to keep a loyal general or lots of units in Capua because SPQR is rich and while they don't attack they'll try and bribe it just about every turn.

Everywhere: Build up those two new armies from Carthage and Sicily, and everywhere else beef it up economically and make sure to gain trade rights and alliances with as many factions as you can, since you can always break them. Keep on building up until you have all of Africa up to Siwa under control. You may have to defend in Italy against the Julii, but it shouldn't be too hard. Also, take over Kydonia from the rebels if nowone else owns it.

III.
Now you have most of Africa, southern Italy, Sicily, and a few islands. You can pretty much do whatever you want. There's a few ways to conquest from here. One way is to conquer the Spanish Penninsula and continue up into France. This way is pretty easy as barbarians can't match up with your Sacred Bands and elephants. You could also take over all of Greece and work your way up, this is slightly harder but still just some easy conquest as none of those civilizations will attack you at any of your main bases. Another option is to go up through Italy and kill of SPQR and the Julii early. Depending on how big the Julii are this can be anywhere from fairly easy to pretty annoying medium/hard. Lastly, you can go over and take on Egypt. This is by far the hardest method, so if you like challenges and are bored, do this. Egypt will have established dominance in Asia Minor and will be probably to their best units, which in some way's are better than Romans in AI hands. Also, if you start losing they may even decide to strike back, making this the riskiest expansion. This will take longer than other ways, but in the end you'll prevail one way or another. Now simply keep conquering to or past 50 provinces until you're satisfied or bored, and then simply take Rome. Good job, my son, you are now the Carthaginian master of the world. Hail Hannibal Jr.!

Hope this helps.

-CrW

**teja** · 09-09-2006, 13:43

Originally Posted by Lucifer1337

Spain: I personally found that with all my energy in Sicily and Africa, I couldn't put enough money into Corduba to keep it alive

A lot of fine points man.
Just a tip for Corduba when your only goal is to keep it alive in earlier turns: Never ever build roads there! A lot of Gaul or Spanish armies touched my territory, but never attacked me for real over tons of turns this way. It looks that AI prefers good connections to its targets and if the time to hit the target is long enought they might aim for "closer" targets. I tested this playing Cartage and used the same strategy at different places with other fractions as well. I forgot the name of the guy that found out this principe first.

**Tellos Athenaios** · 09-09-2006, 23:42

Originally Posted by Lucifer1337

Africa: Also make sure you leave garrisons of around four units of whatever you think you could defend best with in an emergency(no elephants!). Don't take Siwa as it is a good way to hold off Egypt, and when you see Numidia get destroyed, you have fair warning that you're next. While this army is campaigning build another one in Carthage of your best units. The campaigning army will not be done doing all I've just said before you should continue to section II, so just keep it moving as you go on.

As for the garrisons: this means archers and no walls. If you stick to those good old wooden palissade then you can defeat most armies with a handfull of archers. All this thanks to the flaming ammunition, which is something a battering ram can't cope with.

As for expanding in Africa, never forget to take Cyrene: it's a good way to bolster your economy, and this way you can make some profit out of trade rights with Egypt.

And these were my

.

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 09-13-2006, 17:17

Carthage Campaign; RTW 1.0, vh/vh

Usual problems at outset. Gaul and Spain decide not to fight one another so that both can send armies after Corduba. The Julii come for Sardinia right after waxing Segesta. The Scipii go for Syracuse, but then turn toward Lily.
I never attacked Rome, but tried for trade rights. I then bribed rebels near Messana and ran them back to my territory. This was cited as a transgression -- of course -- even though the Julii attacking me in Sardinia was acceptable.

This time I focused on elephants. Even the garden variety elephants are quite useful against Rome. You can't leave them exposed, you must follow up with light cavalry/Iberians to help them out, you can't use them for beans in stone-walled cities -- but they shatter formations, allow you to hit walls on turn one, and do really evil things to velites as long as they're not tired. Rome, by not fielding archers, is prone to hefalump damage. Never let eles fight solo and don't let them fight past "tired" -- but don't treat them like porcelain dolls either. The generics cost the same as a batch of Sarmatians -- but generate a lot more value.

I snuck the army back and forth from Caralis to Sicily (no navy, couldn't afford it), smashing up Romans as I built my garrisons. Once Caralis could hold on its own, those troops defeated a Scip field army and then took Syracuse. A short while later, Messana fell, and then 4 Scip family men lost their lives in an attempt to reconquer. The Scipii died out from lack of heirs.

To forestall the Romans, I did, eventually, go over to the boot and hack my way up. Took the better part of 16 years or so -- I'm a turtle -- but all of Julian and Brutian Italy are mine, as is Rome, and Capua. All were conquered just prior to 230bc, so no post-Marian problems for me. A powerful Gaul (Pyrenees to the Carpathians save for N Germany/Batavia) faces my forces across the mostly fortified Padus.

Spain was never in danger, though some hard fights were had before the walls of Corduba, and with Spanish forces committed to the deserts Southeast of Spanish-held Tingi I walked an army -- with elephants -- through Numidian territory (game-long allies actually, a first for me) to take Tingi behind them, fortify it, and then reinforce the forces in Iberia. With 2 units of elephants and some hoplites to add to the cavalry and Spanish mercs, my forces were able to beat the Spanish and Gallic forces in a series of battles and siege assaults.

I now own all of Spain and Italy, all of Sicily, Tingi, and the original provinces. The borders are fortified at the Padus and the Pyrenees, and I am building a navy, upgrading cities, feeding in Armor eles, sacred band (both) and increasing the formerly low percentage of Poenis in the ranks. Not sure whether I'll go after Brutii owned Greece, take apart Gaul, or take Egypt. All forces are building their better units now, so I'll take time to re-equip, establish standard garrisons, and build up a navy that can end the scourge of Gallic mini fleets in the med. Don't have a lot of money yet, need to keep building infrastructure and secure more trade.

**Rex_Pelasgorum** · 09-13-2006, 22:17

When i played vannila, i ussualy quickly grabed any mercenaryes i found in Spain and put them into the forts to protect me from the Gauls and Iberians. I evacuated Caralis, moved the troops to Sicily, and made alliance whith the Greeks.

When the Scipii attacked Syracuse, i sent my army to help the Greeks, easily defeated the romans. Then, whith all what i had, attacked Messana... population enslaved, built temple to Baal for loyalty.

Whith Messana taken, the Scipii are 50% dead... , go hunt them and take Capua... curiously, the Brutti and the Senate will stay silent in the land as long as you dont attack Rome... theyr navy, howewer, will harm you alot, so block theyr ports. Do not attack Rome now, better take some Brutii cityes before. Build up for a couple of turns, then go for Rome, after that go for the Julii... always kill the roman factions first, dont give them time to evolve. They are programed to be your enemyes ! In vannila RTW, cavalry is the ultimate anti-roman weapon, use it alot. In your anti-roman armyes, use little melee infantry !

Numidians should be the next to be attacked - they are weaklings, and will collapse quickly to the might of Carthage.... howewer, do not attack Siwa. Siwa will be a buffer against the Egyptians. Cyrene, howewer, should be taken.

From here, all turns out to be very easy... and boring

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 09-14-2006, 15:26