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Thread: Carthage

  1. #1

    Default Carthage

    Guide.
    Frogbeastegg's Guide to Total War: Shogun II. Please note that the guide is not up-to-date for the latest patch.


  2. #2
    Member Member Inuyasha12's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Start off playing as carthage like any other faction right? No problem.. WRONG!!
    The numidians will attack you, the spanish, the julii, and to top it all off the scipii alomst at the very begining.

    You can't play carthage like any other faction. Its just impossible to win.First youre going to have to abandon two cities, thats right two cities.Get all of your units in corduba and in caralais and ship them to lylibaeum. Destroy all possible building there as well. Good thing is corduba will be captured by the spanish and it will rebel against them in your side, so you'll have corduba sometimes and sometimes you wont. Next take the rebel town of lepcis magna, it only takes a couple of troops and its key to this plan!! Then get some units from carthage and thapsus and ship them to lylibaeum too. Your goal now is to hold lylibaeum at all costs. If you loose the war in sicily your dead! Elephants are key, so have at least one unit of them in your armies, beleive me it can make the difference. Once you've destroyed the invading vanguard of the scipii, head over to syracuse(wich most likely has rebelled against either the scipii or the greeks by now) And take it. Don't concentrate on your navy as long as you still have a city in sicily the romans won't try to invade you in africa. All you have to do is win the war in sicily, after that the scipii are bankrupt. If the numidians attak you don't panic, they send small armies that are easy to kill. After that i recomend to keep attacking rome, it will make you rich, very rich.
    You can now rebuild your navy, and begin conquering by sea. Thats carthage's power, her navy. USE IT!
    A man's real possession is his memory.In nothing else is he rich,in nothing else is he poor
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    You can't say civilization isn't advancing: in every war they kill you in a new way.
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  3. #3
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    My approach is different and is tailored to the "very hard/very hard" setting.
    Prepare for war, you will be fighting everyone simultaneously, regardless of your diplomatic approach. I don't cede any ground without a fight.

    Start building up Cordoba rapidly. You will be attacked but it is a great province and the enemies there will be weak. You can buy mercs there. Combine them with a light cav force (actually, all the Carthaginian light cav units right "medium horse" and they hit pretty hard against all but the heavy cav.)

    At the same time, kill off the Scipii in Lilybaeum. They are going to attack you anyway, so get them first. I can't remember exactly how I did it, but I crushed them in the first few turns. I moved an elephant unit with me an busted down their front gate I believe. This allows assault on the same turn as the siege. It is over before Scipii knew what hit 'em.

    Get diplomats or spies into Lilybaeum and newly captured Messana. That Greek diplomat will bribe anything in the vicinity. Diplomats and spies keep it from succeeding. Make a trade agreement with him, then expect the Greeks to attack. They will field a hoplite army. The Carthaginian cav can handle them piecemeal if you are careful. Draw a hoplite out on the flank then hit it from the rear, repeat... The units cave immediately. Take Syracuse and make peace with the diplomat after that (hint: he responded to me that they would make peace in return for Syracuse, I countered with 2,000 denarii for Syracuse and peace, he took it.)

    Prepare Sardinia for attack. The Julii are going to send army after army after army after army there. Ship in cav, and build cav when you can (its going to be awhile...) This will keep the Romans busy. Sally out the back on the strategic map and hit the armies from high ground. It is not uncommon to fight two or three battles a turn in Sardinia.

    The Scipii and Brutii will probably gang up on Messana. Keep a good army there and just keep hammering them down. Lots of cav rushes is the answer to all those hastati and principes. Move out the side on a the strategic map, so that you don't have to sally on the tactical map. Eventually they seem to weary of attacking Messana, but beware the Brutii will come back later with very large armies. The Scipii are stuck with one province after losing Messana, so they are effectively castrated.

    Deal with Numidia as soon as you can, to secure your rear. They will attack you no matter what, so kill them. Tingi is important because it provides a ferry link with Cordoba. It will be awhile before you can reach it. Numidia can't field a lot of men, but their cav are very tough to kill. Buy as many Numidian cav mercs as you can to combat them. Bring along an elephant unit to smash in wooden gates on the same turn as you start a siege.

    Exterminate enemy populations. This makes the cities far more profitable for much, much longer. You also will have less trouble form "differing culture" because they are dead...

    Grab Lepcis Magna when you can manage it. It is rebel and is a good source of income. The folks are Poeni, so they are a "friendly culture."

    Palma is great for awesome Balearic slingers. Hang onto it and step out of the city to buy slingers now and again. You can ferry them to land if you are careful. Palma also can make lots of money! If you keep the Romans busy in Sardinia, they ignore Palma.

    Use your cav. The Carthaginian infantry are not worth fielding against the Romans and the AI has administered severe beatings when I tried that. Even the upper level Carthaginian phalanx units suffer because of small unit size, so only build minimal infantry. (Phalanx are easy to counter in RTW.) A base elephant unit or two is your replacement for decent heavy infantry. You can smash them throught the center, with cav following. The elephants cause lots of fear (it is in the unit stats) and disorder the formations, so the follow up cav routs the enemy units. I often head right for the enemy commander (if he hasn't already made a suicide charge.) Charge the pachys through, then turn back and hit anyone still in good order. They tire quickly, but are nearly unstoppable until they tire. You are unlikely to lose more than one or two beasts even in a tough fight, but you must keep them moving. If they stop they will end up routing.

    After Numidia, crush Spain (you will probably be doing both simultaneously.) Then take the rest of the Iberian peninsula from Gaul to secure a good border (the Pyrenees), plus lots of income. Gaul will attack you first, so don't worry about it. They are vulnerable to Balearic slingers combined with your cav. The chosen swordsmen are very tough on "very hard" though, so focus your slingers on them.

    Turn your attention to Rome...I went after the Brutii first since they were the strongest. I snuck in 2 full stack invasion forces from Sicily and besieged the two Brutii cities in southern Italy. Then I polished off the Scipii province. By this time you are so powerful that no one will be able to hurt you.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Carthage

    I am playing Carthage on Very Hard difficulty and have passed the earliest part of the campaign. I currently own the entire Sicily, Citra, Lepcis Magna, Cyrene and along with the original lands they came with. (sorry if worng spelling)

    You should be aware that you need to have a strong navy since you are going to face huge Roman fleets.

    Try to save money for bribing, which is very essential when converting opposing family members to your side. This weakens enemy factions and provides generals or governers for you.

    I did not try to eliminate the Numidian at first, I just held off their attacks and took Citra. Instead, I launched suprise attacks against the Romans. When the attained settlement looks to be undefendable, I delete the buildings and retreat. This slows the Romans down and brings some short term benefits.

    On battles, you should control all the battles yourself, as this will decrease your losses by a ton. Hire mercenaries such Numidian Cavalry and Hoplites. Spanish mercenaries are available when you are campaigning from Corduba. They are good units, able to fire javelins from distance and fare pretty well in melee. Long Shield and Round Shield Cavalry are excellent additions to your army, use them for flanking. Libyan Spearmen and Poeni Infantry are good for its class and should be widely used. Do not bother with slingers because they cause vast friendly kills when they pull back behind your main line.

    (cont'd) Build Temple of Baal if you wish to train Sacred Band. Their base attack is 12 and their defense is 23 and are also well-armored. As with all spearmen/phalanx, they are good against cavalry (The AI sometimes charges their Generals into your skirmishers but then they eventually get sliced up by your spearmen who are deployed behind the skirms). Sacred Band Cavalry is an tremendous mounted unit and should be well respected. They provide you a good counter against those solid praetorians/urban cohorts. Each army should have at least one elephant unit. War and Armored Elephants can fire arrows while the plain one cannot. Deploy them on the flanks to drive through and batter the enemy lines when the moment is most opportune. And then charge your main line to cause the enemy to rout. Use your General and cavalry to pursue the fleeing.

    I haven't finsihed my campaign, but it is looking extremely healthy.
    Last edited by hotingzilla; 10-06-2004 at 13:35.

  5. #5

    Default

    delete ?
    Last edited by Hannibal_Barkar; 10-08-2004 at 13:37.

  6. #6

    Angry The Punic wars

    Want a challenging game ? Play Carthage ! (I am playing on VH/M)

    Why is Carthage so much fun ?
    I finished the julii Campaign on VH/M and to be honest it got pretty boring in the end, since the gauls and brits were just cannonfodder for my trusty legionnaires. I don't like playing on Hard or Very hard diff on the battle level, because of the unfair advantages the AI gets. On the other hand, - the roman infantry seems pretty much dominating as it is on medium difficulty.(btw human controlled Velites own Elephants). So what to do ? Play Carthage ! The Carthaginian forces find themselves facing enemies that has superior infantry. You will have your hands full defending vs the Roman with only light cav and skirmishers. Every denarii , every soldier is gonna count. Oth


    Carthaginian Battle Tactics:
    Played the Battle of Trebia ? Well, listen to what the narrator says. Hannibal learned early in his military life how powerful the roman infantry could be. So he built an army relying on cavalry to deal with the roman military. And so must you.

    If you stand toe to toe with Roman infantry you die. Period. As learned in Trebia you only need inf as means to stall or bait the enemy, so your cavalry can flank, attack - and crush those pesky Legionnaires.
    Rely on your Generals cav and your light cav early in the game. Vs Numidians you may also use iberian inf but light cav is much more effective. Even gaul infantry will turn your early and mid level infantry to a bloody pulp faster then you can hit "pause".

    The lybian skirmishers you can get as mercs in North Africa are great. They have awesome endurance and I get the impression they got double as ammo as other skirmishers. Use them as bait for enemy units. Once the enemy starts leaving the line to attack the skirmishers you kill it with your light infantry. Once you got the enemy in movement and scattered he is yours. Note: This ain't easy without pause. I can do it most of the times. But when I am outnumbered 2:1 I must use pause a bit, especially to avoid being shot at by my own skirmishers. Its possible to beat superior roman armies who come in superior numbers with Cav and skirmishers.


    Numidian light cav. Very nice, very fast skirmishing cav. I use them also as scouts to see the setup of the opposing army before I decide where to try to flank. They can do the same job as lybian skirmishers, but vs infantry heavy armies I find the lybians more effective, since enemy inf is easier to bait with inf. The legionnaires will not run after fast moving cav for long.


    Hoplites ? you can get them around Carthage as mercs. Useful in streetfighting. In open battle they are more of a burden for your fast moving army. Stick with iberian inf to bind enemy inf momentarily.


    Elephants. Oh boy, they surely are the ancient equivalent to AT-ST Walker. Fun, Fun to maul over some blue clad legionnaires and send them flying. Great killing potential but really expensive. Well, I don't know where other people get so filthy rich, but you wont be able to build many elephants early in the game on VH. You start with one elephant unit and I suggest moving it to the African coast. Build another one when you have the cash and move it to Spain. Show the gauls some african wildlife. They gonna love you for it. Elephants are your one big joker. Be careful with em, the loss of an elephant must be avoided until you can afford more. Use them as morale breaker and instant door opener when sieges. Yes, Elephants can knock open gates and raze wooden walls. Elephants can save your neck when all other options fail. So be conservative on 'em.

    Generals: Maybe it was because of my playing style, maybe its built in the game. I got some very decent generals early in the game. Maybe its just in the Carthaginian genes. By the way, your leader will die after the first two turns or so. Be prepared for it.

    Navy: Forget it. You are facing the three roman navies, the spaniards, and even the gauls send ships to harass your coast. Just try to keep Gibraltar open. Tingis and Cordoba got a great little trade relationship going between em. The AI must be spending enormous sums on building all these gigantic fleets. Also I find naval battles extremely frustrating cause you have no influence of the outcome whatsoever. Oh, on another sidenote... During the Julii campaign the AI was never smart enough to block my harbours. My Carthaginian Harbours sure do get blocked. Only you don't see the little graphic animation with the ropes. Land trade seems good enough though


    My strategic approach was different again.

    1.In memoriam of the first punic war I let Carsalis and Sicily be overrun by the Romans. My only achievement there was a trade agreement with the diplomat in Syracuse.
    2. That gave me some turns of freedom and resources to settle affairs in my a african backyard. I negotiated an Alliance and military access with the numidians. I used that to get two armies in position. The unsuspecting Numidians lost Cirta and Tingis before they got the chance to break the alliance themselves. Hah ! Tingis ios a great money maker. Key is here to be fast. Attack with inferior forces. Rely on your generals cav. The conquered settlements in North africa don't give you a culture penalty, so they are easy to control. Nevertheless I decided to let the population walk the plank and not just the chaingang. Good for cash, but maybe a mistake in the longer run since it slows your early development down. While you do this... consider shipping a diplomat to Leptis Minor along with a city guard. You can bribe the leptis Minor Garrison cheaply but you need to garrison it immediately. Great trade city. After that go for the african center. You don't want the numidians to backstab you, while you have your hands full with gauls in spain. Lybia will take a bit. Its a long hike through the desert. But same goes for the revenge thirsty numidians. So instead concentrate on building a defense vs the romans.

    3. Thapsus Coast. Let History repeat itself. In 255 Bc Consul Regelus invaded the coast with estimated 16.000 men and 500 cav. He pressed hard and was quite successful. The Carthagenians were even trying to negotiate a peace , but Regelus asked for too much,- total roman supremity. In a big effort Carthage mustered all the resources it had and hired many merc and a spartan general defeated Regelus.

    You will need mercs now. You cannot pump units fast enough to deal with the romans. They will land in front of Thapsus. don't let them siege your town , since that will interrupt trade. Trade is your lifeline. don't allow it to be interrupted. I built a watchtower on the coast.And every time an army unloads its met by my defending army. That way you can take advantage by the fact that the AI sends the roman armies piecemeal. If you allow the Scipions to built a big stack while attacking Thapsus you probably lost the campaign. I have my elephant unit here. Should a battle become desperate I rely on it to loosen up some enemy furball, so my cav can maneuver again. Never ever use auto battle with elephants in your army, you will certainly loose some elephants.

    4. Once you got things under control at home you should like Hamilkar´, Hannibals father, decide to expand into spain. Now don't fool yourself. Forget alliances there. I tried and always failed. Maybe its possible to make one with spain , but I doubt it. Bribery becomes your best friend. Why ? Spaniards and you share the same line of inf and light cav. so if you bribe , you get to keep those units ! Same goes for many rebels in Spain. A great way to make money is to sell map info to enemies. I sold map info to the scipions for up to 5 k. Thats great if you are in dire need of cash. Feels a bit like cheating though. I am clueless what the AI makes of this info.
    Carefull about leaving your settlements in spain without generals. The spanish bastards bribed two of my settlements in one turn. Nearly cost me the campaign. Gauls just keep coming. Not as hard as romans but they come in even greater numbers. You should have enough trade income by now to slowly push them out of Gaul and get ready for the big haul.... over the alps into Rome.


    Good luck ! Melkart be with you.


    PS.: Did you know that Melkart was the Carthaginian name for Heracles ? Like Hannibal he traveled from spain over the alps to settle a score in Italy.

  7. #7

    Default Vh/vh

    Carthaginian Blitzkrieg, VH/VH Ok we all know the best thing about not playing a Roman faction is we don’t have to hear that horrible horrible crackling voice say ‘vicccctorreee!’

    On the other hand the Carthaginian saying ‘decisive’ is very nice, and even more amusing is when you lose very badly and he says something akin to ‘ughhhck!’.

    Ok so who wants to win as Carthage on VH/VH? Sure we all do, and if you follow my easy steps, you too will be master of Mediterranean in no time.

    Now if you tried Carthage on VH and failed, you know its due to money more then any other factor. You get attacked all sides, and you just can’t afford to field the armies and build up your cities. The Scipii want you, and the Numedians will go for you right off the bat, unlike in hard games when you can get an easy alliance. You have no nearby trade partners, no control of the sea, horrible starting infantry, and elephants can only do so much.

    This can all be solved and solved decisively before your faction leader dies. (Ok my last game he made it to 81, but still he may well live to see victory over Rome, or at least the parts that matter).

    Ok take a ship and take your faction heir out of Carthage, on the way out buy a numedian merc cav. Get to Liybeaum and pick up your faction leaders army that’s east of liybeaeum, being sure to pick up the mercs in the area as well. At the same time start building a cav stable in Carthage, you will need it asap.

    Take the army, now ship borne to just outside the coast of the Scipii town Capua. Now this is the key bit. WAIT until the Romans are at war with the Greeks at Syracuse. This is your signal to go (you can have your spy look for the siege at Syracuse). Now take your army and hit Capua (if you have the cash pick up some more mercs). Do NOT siege it but attack using your elephants to take down the gate, and a few walls. This is going to be your crucial fight. You MUST not take excessive casualties. Use your elephants but protect them. If you lose them its over and you might as well start wondering what life as a Roman slave will be like. Now after you have taken Capua, sack it, and LEAVE. Its worth a good deal of cash you badly need and it will rebel with a large stack of rebels which will be more then the Scipii can take it back from. Now March in the Brutii cities of Tarentum and Croton, one after the other, use your elephants to get past the wooden walls, sack them both for the cash you still badly need, but you can safely occupy them both. Buy Mercs if any are available because Iberian infantry are like toy soldiers. Ok in about 4 turns, you have taken the Scipii and Brutii almost out of the game, and gained about 15k in cash as well as 2 good cities. You are not out of the woods yet.

    After you have sacked Capua you need to reinforce Liybeaum from Carthage. Just ferry troops over, and as SOON as the cav stables at Carthage has been completed get at least one unit of elephants over to liybeaum, again you will need them. If they put you under siege before you get elephants, be sure to land them inside the ‘battle’ radius so they will be reinforcements as you sally forth to meet the Scipii. Odds are Scipii will be attacking you with about ½ to 1/3rd a stack, and a couple of stars. If you are lucky the Scipii will take Syracuse as well, which you and your elephant lead Liybeaum army will take first, and you will then take the last Scipii city of Messana

    Ok so now the Scipii are gone, and the Brutii are semi-impotent stuck in Greece. The Senate will not attack you. The Julii WILL attack you and in fact they allied at about this point with the Gauls who also attacked Corduba in Spain. The Brutii will land troops about once every 5 turns at Croton, but those are easily crushed.

    Now for Corduba, you want to save this city, it’s a nice foothold on Europe and it’s a good money maker. You are to far away for Elephants, odds are Numedia is at war with you by now, so this one you want to buy as many mercs as you can. My Corduba army is about 3/4ths Mercs, and the Spanish mercs are like a poor mans Hasti, pillia included. You will have some big Gaul armies to take care of, BUT while you will have a good general, they will be captain lead and will route easy. They will have no missle troops for a long while so be sure to use yours to your advantage.

    Caralis will be a loss to the Julii, let them have it.

    Other things you should be doing are building ports/markets for trade, getting a diplomat to the Spanish BEFORE they attack you to get trade rights if not an alliance. If a Spanish army comes near Corduba, bribe it before it can attack you as you NEED them for trade. The same goes for the Greeks at Syracuse, you will want a diplomat in the area early on and once the Romans have attacked them they will take trade rights and an alliance. Sometimes their diplomat will approach you first and you can save the funds.

    Its still not ‘easy’ at this point but you really bought yourself some breathing room. The Julii will focus on you with large stacks from the north, but you should have time to reinforce your starting army via Carthage-Messana-Croton. You will not control the seas so think of ships as one use taxies, if they live longer so be it.

    I tested this several times and it always worked to a good degree. Money will still not be plentiful, but you will have enough to build up cities and maintain a few different armies. Surprisingly in my current one my allies the Spanish have taking out two Numedian towns. This is mildly annoying as I wanted those towns, but a nice touch. Once you take the remaining Numidean towns, it gets pretty easy.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Carthage

    Continuing my previous post...

    Once you seized Siwa from the Numidians, the Egyptians will fire armies at you once every 2 turns. They bring generals (Chariots) and huge stacks of Desert Axemen and Bowmen. Militarily, you are no match for them, but you should have a 4 star or above general (gained while campaigning North Africa) who will turn odds in your favor.

    Chariots will cause you a lot of problems - they run through your cavalry like a hot knife through butter - do NOT charge any type of cavalry especially your General's unit at them. Instead, you should Numidian cavalry and hopefully harass the chariots. Use junk units such as peasants to divert fire from your precious units. You should also use Sacred Band to form phalanx and lure the chariots into charging them.

    Once, missile chariots' ammo is soaked up, use Iberian mercs to lure them closer to your main line. They will charge against them however they end up crestfallen when they plunge into your spearman.

    Slingers will be preferred to bring along against the Egyptians though they aren't of much use besides as being bait and diversion when facing bowmen.

    Keep sending reinforcements from Carthage, and when you are ready, plunge into the Egyptian heart - Memphis. If you do things right, you should take their most advanced settlement and will put them far behind.
    Last edited by hotingzilla; 10-16-2004 at 14:06.

  9. #9
    Member Member afrit's Avatar
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    Default Carthage on short campaign hard/hard

    Read all the above posts. Agree with most points.

    I am playing hard/hard on short campaign and it is a lot of fun. Main lessons:

    -you WILL be fighting a lot of factions simultaneously. At one point I fought battles with Scipii, Brutii , Julii , Numidia ,Spain and Gaul (yes, Gaul!) in a single turn! Except for the Romans, all the other factions initiated hostilites first.

    -Tactical skill on the battlefield is paramount. This is not a faction where you can sit back, build up and then attack. Needless to say, you have to play out all battles personally and pull out all the tricks to keep your losses to a minimum: use missiles to take out roman infantry or enemy units in the city square, attack only when you have overwhelming force (you don't want to win a tough fight, you want to crush them in an easy fight), take your time to maneuver into position on the battlefield. You cannot afford to rush an attack and then count on production to replace your losses.

    -Best carthaginian weapons you have are Round Shield Cavalry and the initial army in Sicily, which has elephants in it. Slingers are good at taking out units in city squares with minimal losses on your side. Numidian mercenaries are easy to get and useful against, who else, the Numidians!. As others mentioned, Carthaginian infantry is no match for the Romans or Greeks.

    -You need a strong navy. Your holdings are on 3 islands (baleares, Sardinia, Sicily) and 2 continents (Spain and Africa), all separated by lots of water. The link is your navy. Build lots of ships and keep them together, while picking off enemy ships one by one. You can effectively defend sicily and africa from Roman attacks by sinking their ships before they land (of course, sometimes they will slip by. Then you cut off their retreat!).

    -Carthage has 3 power bases: sicily, Africa, Spain. You should strive to expand 2 of them at least. In my campaign, I chose Sicily and Spain and kept Africa/Numidia till later.

    Sicily. Since the Scipii are your sworn enemies, it pays to attack them quickly before they build up. I managed to blitz the Scipii out in the second turn by using the elephants to smash down the city gate. Without Sicily, theScipii are down to a single province, and they will be slowed down a good bit. If you have naval supremacy, blockade them in their capital Capua and sink all their ships, so they cannot attack you in Sicily.
    If you are good tactically in fighting phalanxes, take out the Greeks too. They are too weak to reinforce/retake Syracuse and it is a well developed city. I did this in about turn 4 or 5.

    North Africa. The Numidians will attack you sooner or later. Players on very hard reported they got attacked immediately. In my hard campaign, they attacked in about turn 20 (260BC ) after they ran out of places to conquer in the Sahara and Gaetulia. In any case, the good news is their units are weak. Buy Numidian mercs to counter their own cav.

    Spain. You should make an early decision whether to hold on to Corduba or to abandon it. Cordoba is a rich province, and if you beat off Spain, it is pretty safe from other enemies. On the other hand, war with Spain will cost money that you need to fight other, closer, enemies.

    Spain starts with 4 provinces against your single one on the peninsula. Therefore, you need to even it out by capturing one of their settlements early, before they start making their better units. Cartago Nova is the logical choice because it is closest and is on the Mediterranean, so it can link up with your other provinces. Once you take it, it becomes 3 (poor) spanish provinces versus 2 of your own on the peninsula. Much better odds!.


    Other settlements:
    -Lepcis magna in Lybia. It is rebel held, without a wall and defended by a couple of town militias. Easy to capture, so grab it before the Numidians get there.
    -Caralis on Sardinia. The Julii will attack (usually about turn 4 or 5). I think it is best to abandon it. You just won't have enough forces to defend it and still fight in Sicily, Spain and Numidia.
    -Palma on Baleares. Try to develop its population quickly: lower taxes, build Tanit shrine, etc. The aim is to tech up to port and produce ships. It is also a good source for mercenary slingers.
    - Finally, a couple of warnings:
    Etna will erupt sometime around 260BC. Any army you have in the close vicinity will suffer huge losses (about 40%) . So keep your main force on the Island somewhere else around that time.

    The Spanish units are identical to yours, so they can bribed back and forth. I lost a 500 veteran army to bribery . It took me many turns to first, defeat it, and then replace it. Needless to say, I returned the favor later on by buying an attacking Spanish stack.

    Hope the above helps.
    The plural of anectode is not data - Anonymous Scientist

    I don't believe in superstition. It brings bad luck. - Umberto Eco

  10. #10

    Default Re: Carthage

    I'm going to disagree with some of the proceeding.

    1) "The Numidians will attack you". Not necessarily. The Numidians are likely to get attacked by Egypt and/or Spain. Go to war with whichever it is, and ally with the Numidians. The Numidians were my good allies for my entire campaign. 50 provinces (including Rome) later, I won. Bet they were happy I never attacked them. :)

    2) "You need a strong navy". Not really. Your navy will almost never (I can't remember a single instance) get attacked when it is in one of your "harbours". Most of your harbours are a single turn away from the destination(s) you'll have. Especially early on, you really don't need a powerful navy. The computer players tend to overfocus on navies, so there's no point in trying to compete with them. If you lose a ship or two, no problem, build another one. But huge fleets aren't going to be a big advantage.

    3) "Abandon Caralis". Caralis can be defended with a fairly weak force. Just constantly sally against attackers and you won't have much problems. I won't say that abandoning is a horrible idea. The Julii won't attack you much after they take it, so it would be one less enemy to fight. On the other hand, holding on to it means the Julii will waste most of their resources trying to capture it. This makes them quite weak, and easy to conquer once you hit Italy. I chose to defend it, and had no problems doing so (I had to reinforce it from Carthage, as the base force was too poor to hold out).

    4) "You should strive to expand 2 of them". That can work, but I find it more effective to focus on the Romans. They are going to be the toughest of the opponents you fight (unless you run into the Egyptians). By focusing on Sicily, you can weaken 2 of the factions (Scipii and Brutii will attack you). By holding Caralis, the Julii will attack you. Because you are defending, and sallying from a city, you should be able to inflict extreme casualties with few losses in return. Jump across the straight, and you should be able to take the Brutii and Scipii cities easily. Take Rome, and move north and you should have the Julii cities as well. With the powerful Roman lands all under your control, you will have the resources to focus where you will at that point, north into Gaul, Africa, or Spain.

    Bh

  11. #11
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I am currently playing a VH/VH campaign and I want to emphasis a minor point someone mentioned above. Wait to attack the Scipii in Sicily until AFTER the Romans are at war with the Greeks. I attacked on my second turn before this happened and I have since played the entire remainder of the campaign as the only enemy the Roman factions has ever had. I managed to hold onto everything but Sardinia, but it was touch and go sometimes. With all 3 Roman factions' armies only concerned with you and the Senate's fleet harassing you as well, this puts a major drain on your resources for other areas. I have still triumphed and am now preparing to invade Italy proper with Sacred Band and Armored War Elephants, but I think I made the situation much more difficult for myself than I needed to.

    One final thing, it took me two restarts to survive the initial challenges of the Carthage campaign. On my first two tries, Cordoba was bribed by the Spanish and there was nothing I could do about it. The third time I was preparing to evacuate my army, but the diplomat got there first. Over several turns he failed to bribe my general, each time increasing his anti-bribe traits until his price eventually ended up at 500% of normal and they gave up. That was all luck, but as long as that army doesn't get bribed it should be able to hold on without problems. Without any outside support Cordoba (and a little good generalship) is able to hold off both the Gauls and the Spanish. Turn the city into a military base, pumping out those round shield cavalry. Also be sure to regularly check the province for Baeleric Slingers which sometimes pop up as mercenaries. Once Cordoba is upgraded to Stone Walls, those slingers will keep it from ever falling. Once the city is secure, behing making sorties against enemy armies. I was able to adopt two captains this way which gave me three generals in the region without ever needing to import any troops. Eventually my Spanish forces took the entire Iberian peninsula and are now pushing into southern Gaul. They are totally self-reliant and have never received any help from Africa or Sicily with the exception of a few young generals imported after the peninsula was secured to manage some cities.

    Don't give up on Spain!


  12. #12
    Alienated Senior Member Member Red Harvest's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhruic
    I'm going to disagree with some of the proceeding.

    1) "The Numidians will attack you". Not necessarily. The Numidians are likely to get attacked by Egypt and/or Spain. Go to war with whichever it is, and ally with the Numidians. The Numidians were my good allies for my entire campaign. 50 provinces (including Rome) later, I won. Bet they were happy I never attacked them. :)
    Bh
    On VH/VH the Numidians always attack me eventually. Of course, I don't surrender Cordoba, so Spain doesn't attack Numidia. If I have to maintain garrisons large enough to keep them from attacking, then I might as well march in and take the provinces instead of wasting money on oversized garrison.
    Rome Total War, it's not a game, it's a do-it-yourself project.

  13. #13
    Bureaucratically Efficient Senior Member TinCow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I had a good 20 turns or so before Numidia attacked me (VH/VH). Even then, they had one large stack that started the war by beseiging one of my cities. After this army, I only saw one further large stack in my conquest of the Numidian provinces. All in all, their biggest impact on my was the loss of trade income which I experienced when I went to war with them. Militarily they were never much of a threat.


  14. #14

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Red Harvest
    On VH/VH the Numidians always attack me eventually. Of course, I don't surrender Cordoba, so Spain doesn't attack Numidia. If I have to maintain garrisons large enough to keep them from attacking, then I might as well march in and take the provinces instead of wasting money on oversized garrison.
    I play on VH/VH. I keep Cordoba. I don't really maintain much of a garrison, because I don't care if they attack, I can just sally and cut them all down with almost no losses.

    Spain did go to war with Numidian, despite me being in Cordoba.

    I'm not saying that Numidian will never attack Carthage. I'm just saying that if you can work the factions, you can set it up so that they are unlikely to. If you prefer, go ahead and attack them, it'll get you all of west Africa, leaving you with a lot fewer borders. But I find it better to take out the Roman factions first.

    Bh

  15. #15

    Default Re: Carthage

    Very constructive posts.

    Thanks very much, they are all much appreciated!


    All warfare is based on deception.
    Sun Tzu
    The Art of War

  16. #16
    Member Member Tritio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I have started 3 campaigns with Carthage, my most recent is my longest lived, with the mid game developed with me as a regional power. I have not completed the campaign, but I believe that through my observations, I have something useful to offer. I will focus more on general strategies for this great trading power, rather than case by case scenarios, which have been closely examined by above posts.

    What You Can Expect
    In the early game, you can expect to have a measley income, enemies abound, few friends and even fewer allies, armies of low tech units, and a strategically precarious position.
    In the mid game, you can expect to have reduced the number of your fronts, and have made progress at economic development of your cities, to the extent that your income is steady, if barely sufficient. Your enemies should be held at bay by adequate armies and military strength from your allies or yourself.
    In the mid-late game, your economy will be booming, with cash flow increasing, your strategic position should be secure, and your recruitment programmes going all out to churn out your armies. At this point the speed of your expansion will increase greatly, and the world map should soon see a lot more white.
    The late game will take the course your early/mid choices have set for it. Whether Spain, the Italian peninsular, or Africa is under your domination, the whole world should see a whole lot more Crescent Banners to the end game.

    The Freedom of Choice
    As Carthage, your ability to sit back, and plan your path to world domination step by step is not so much an option. The actions of other nations, especially in the early game will largely limit your choices. This is because, in the early game your enemies are mean, dirty, and hairy... err... I mean agressive. A declaration of war by a neighbour would be taken most seriously, and any plans made can be dratically affected by this shift in diplomatic relations. Therefore, as Carthage, you are mostly forced to react to the actions of others. For example, if the Roman and Greek Cities declare war on you, your life in the meditarenean and Sicily would be much more difficult. Whereas if all Roman factions declared war, but the Greek Cities accepted an alliance, you can expect to breathe a sigh of relief. The Brutii will be preoccupied in Greece, and your navy can expect a lot of aid from greek ships.

    The General Focuses
    Since there are a wide variety of possible scenarios, there is no one size fits all strategy that works perfectly for all situations. For example, as Carthage you have an option as developing as a naval power, or as a land power, both options have their pros and cons. However, there are some general principles that can be applied over a wide range of scenarios.

    The Economy
    As in all empires, the almighty denarii is of paramount importance. However, I feel that Carthage is a special case. Money is extremely important. This is because:
    1) You are potentially exposed from all sides. This requires a large army or, a smaller, mobile army or, the capability to raise armies quickly in the case of an attack. From a historical point of view, the last choice was employed by Carthage. As you know, a significant amount of Carthaginian military power was derived from mercenaries. In the game, you will find that they are invaluable in their capability to be quickly raised, fill in gaps in your roster, and offer special skills that would normally would not be available. Eg: Numidian Mercenaries (Carthage lacks a light missile cavalry).
    2) The capability to bribe enemy armies is also invaluable. Should a defence be lacking on a front, dispatching a diplomat or two to pick off small enemy stacks would prevent a significant buildup of enemy forces into big, powerful stacks that would require concentration of your own forces to defeat, in turn reducing your combat capability in other regions. This is particularly amplified by the size of your empire. Since Carthage starts with Corduba, in southern Spain, dedicating forces there to figh the Gauls/Spanish would take them away from the Sicilian, or Italian theatre. Stationing a diplomat or two in Spain would greatly reduce the need for forces there, as a smaller defence is needed. Anyway, Corduba's province has only 4 points of entry, and the City is fortituosly protected by a river crossing 2 squares to the North where the Gaullic armies love to approach. A firm defence there with skirmisher units and barbarian mercenaries will most often result in a victory, and a herioc one at that.
    *********
    As a conclusion, I recommend that economic development should be foremost in priority in the development of your cities. Scramble for every denarii! Even farms and agriculture based buildings should take priority! I suggest that all cities should develop level 2 farms, for the population growth, and the denarii. If you don't need to spend money, don't spend it! The next turn may see dire need for your money, as you dig out every denarii to offer to that nice Red Stack of nasty Romans who just landed next to Carthage when you least expected them...
    As a note, the temples of Carthage are especially kind to our needs. One gives a +1 agriculture output, one gives a bonus to trade, and the other a bonus to law. Just what you need for a landlocked African province, a busy seaport, and a ruly, newly captured city.

    Diplomancy
    If ya don't talk, you're a dead duck.
    What I mean is, Diplomancy is another important factor in playing as Carthage. You can no longer rely on a 'Might is right, I'll do what I want' style that you might've adopted playing as the Julii or Egyptians. The ferocity of warfare on the seas and provinces need to be balanced by delicate negotiations to keep you safe and prospering. Reasons? You already have enough potential enemies as it is. There is the tendency that, if nations declare war on you and see you alone, more and more nations will become allied with your enemies. You have to have your own coalition to back you up. An alliance with The Greek City states is to be foremost in importance, giving that both of you will have to face the might of Rome, and that you share the Central Meditarenean. It gets a mite too squeezy with hostile Roman and Greek ships cruising around, I assure you. Diplomancy can also secure a front for you. For instance, securing an alliance with Spain and Gaul would bless you with a safe western front, and the possibility of an ally against the Julii, squeezing the Romans from both ends of the peninsular. Other than granting you safer borders, another use of diplomancy specific to the case of Carthage is to delay the Roman onslaught. If the Brutii can be showered with gifts and given nice treatment, they'd likely attack the Greeks on Sicily. Thus, when the time comes to declare war on the Brutii after building your strength, it is to your advantage that they are weakened, and that a steadfast ally can be found in the Greeks, as both of you share the same enemy. Sending diplomats off to the east and west to gain trading rights and sell map information is also a profitable venture.

    Thus, train diplomats at the outset! Station one or two in Spain, one in Sicily, one in the Italian peninsular, and one in Carthage. In my game, the Greeks retained their city in Sicily, and I plopped a diplomat right at it's gates, to sit there and allow me to ring up the Greeks whenever I wanted to. Diplomats can also take a more active, scouting role, seeking and bribing small stacks, as I did in Spain. At the beginning, keeping a diplomat in Carthage may save your rear if the Romans plop down a big stack there. Those commanded by a captain can be taken out easily, and subsequent reinforcemets can also be handled by a diplomat.

    The Army, Cavalry
    Aha! Your soldiers! Those poor fellows... Don't trust them! Honour instead the mighty Cavalry!
    That's right, your strength, especially in the early game, lies in your Horsemen. Even the seemingly fragile Round Shield units are extremely useful in running down survivors and launching quick strikes, etc. The Romans are especially vulnerable to cavalry. They tend to place their trust on their flimsy Cavalry Auxilia or Equites to guard their flanks. Once their cavalry is swept away, and once their infantry have been lured out of formation by light cavalry, they are only too easily destroyed. Roman infantry mostly depends on their ability to absorb a cavalry charge, bog down the horsemen, then chew them to bits. They cannot stand flank attacks, etc. (I'm referring to the pre-marius units! I'm assuming you'd go against the Romans and knock them out of the game before the reforms, as you should be doing!). Do not be intimidated by the sight of a legion bearing down on you... they are laughably easy to take apart if you have the know how...
    The strength of cavalry is in their mobility and striking power. They can deliver a staggering number of casualties if the conditions are right, i.e. in a flanking attack with heavy cavalry, etc. They can deliver much damage, and recieve little or none in return, as they can disengage, or the enemy might rout, etc. While this might be common sense, the trick is in how to use this knowledge to maximum efficiency. Once again taking the example of a mixed roman legion (a common foe as Carthage), the steps to victory should be something along these lines:

    1) Attain Cavalry Superiority
    Make the other dumb horseman die for his country...
    Why? Cause the main opponent of your cavalry is their cavalry... they can also maneuver (at roughly the same speed) to counter your moves. It's a no-no to charge into a target while an enemy cavalry unit is close by. Once committed to a charge, a unit must have some time to make impact and then pull out. If an enemy unit catches you with your pants down... err... that is... toga?..., with their cavalry while yours pulls out, your cavalry is gone, simple... to achieve Cavalry Superiority, see "Precision Strikes", below.

    2) Separate the enemy
    If the enemy is strung out into single units widely spaced, their flanks are laughably exposed to cavalry charges in the rear, the most terrible thing for a footsoldier to face, and you win. Simple. They are also prone to exhaustion as they go chasing after our mounted men, who have a lot more stamina (or rather, their horses have more stamina). So, the trick is how to achieve such favourable conditions. The best is to use your light cavalry (preferably missile cavalry), a great example being the Numidian Mercenaries. Dangle them in front of the enemy, keeping out of their pila range, to get them to chase you. Position more of such bait around their flanks and/or rear, and walah! the enemy separates. If they refuse, you could tempt them with a charge or two (lightly commited) with your light cavalry in their rear/flanks, or you could threaten them by moving your heavier cavalry around their flanks. If they continue to stick together, simply take them in smaller bites. Go for their flanks first, and their light units (skirmishers, archers, etc), and possibly, their general's unit, if it has not been taken out already. If they are more experienced, if you lack heavy cavalry, or if they are tough to break, simply make them run a round or two around the map, while keeping your own cavalry fresh (make them run in a circle, or just walk your cavalry). The more tired they are, the more fragile they are... If you are on the offensive, and the enemy does not budge, try to wear them down with whatever ranged units that you have (position them at the enemy's rear for best effect, conserve ammo till you have a good shot), and position your units carefully before charging. The trick to bust a defensive infantry formation is to look for weak spots, and to apply the maximum pressure there, to cause a rout which will develop into a chain rout, as you simultaneously apply pressure to the rest of the enemy. If it fails, simply pull out and try again.

    Deployment

    In terms of positioning within your army, anything goes... The traditional and oft used formation of putting your infantry in the center, heavy cavalry at the flanks, and lighter cavalry at the edges is a flexible, general formation. However, doing something wierd like putting your cavalry behind your infantry is not an entirely bad thing. The key with your deployment is to be flexible. Adapt to situations as you see fit. Think of something fancy that might work? Think it through again, and give it a shot if it sounds sensible! The mobility and speed of cavalry allows them to be redeployed at will. Thus, the initial formation can simply be a bait for the enemy, etc.
    However, in terms of the formation of individual cavalry units, depth, width, etc, there is a difference! I remember reading in frogbeastegg's MTW guide that cavalry should be put in lines 2 men deep for best impact. While I adopted that as the standard deployment for my cavalry then; Not so in RTW! The shallower the formation, the greater the initial impact, but the greater difficulty in pulling out afterwards. Your men tend to penetrate deeply into the enemy, and be surrounded within seconds. Such a unit is easily taken apart! It's rather helpless in such a position.
    Therefore, I recommend that the charging formation for all cavalry units should be at least 3 men deep!
    There are reasons for deploying 2 deep, but that is for the best missile effectiveness (Javalin and bow armed units).
    The formation that gives the most 'ooomph!' in charge is a deep formation, with the unit about as deep as it is wide i.e. a squarish formation. Such units would give a good punch into the enemy formation, obliterating or pushing aside soldiers till the charge is expended, and it usually retains it's cohesion, making the pull out a lot more effortless. In some cases, the charge (if it has the depth and power) can simply punch through the enemy unit. The unit will automatically sweep around for another charge. Extremely devastating! Thats why you want a deep formation! Weigh your chances. Do you think you can punch through the unit? Is there enough space to maneuver beyond the unit? If so, put your units in a deep formation. There is a limit to the effectiveness of depth, of course. Usually, the unit should be at least 5 men wide. Otherwise, the charge may take out a slice of an enemy unit, leaving the rest of them right next to you, and hungry for revenge.

    The Army, Infantry

    "Ah, the infantry ... poor beggers" -RTW

    Well, something along those lines anyway... when I saw that quote playing as the Greeks, relying on my Hoplites, I didn't think much of it. However, with Carthage, this is particularly true. It can pretty much be seen from my writing above that I prefer to use cavalry, and I don't think much of infantry. What about the Poeni infantry and Sacred Band infantry, you say? Well, they have their uses, however, I see them as inferior beside the might of the heavy horseman. Pretty much the only thing that infantry excels at is in Urban Combat, which I will cover with a section below. I have read about some tactics of fixing the enemy with infantry from the front with Iberian Infantry, and then pulling off a cavalry charge to the rear. While I have used this tactic often, I find it twice as devastating to ram a charge through the rear of an infantry unit chasing another cavalry unit, then turn the chased unit around and finish the enemy with a charge from an opposite direction. Well you make do with what you have, and as Carthage in the early game, you'd have little, so those poor beggers will see plenty of action anyway, whether you like it or not! Something I've picked up as the Romans, is to keep reserves behind your line! If you expect some heavy infantry action, it's a neccesity to keep infantry reserves. Although the second lines of the Roman Triplex Acies can support with pilum fire, their physical and moral value is equally important. Something that RTW conveys accurately is the reaction to pressure applied to a line. A bulge signifies that your line is being ought-fought, a telling sign to where your reserves should go! One thing, how to commit your reserves: Do so in deep, squarish formations. In other words, do not try to spread your reserves into a two men deep line as you try to reinforce the entire line at once. It's better to let the enemy put a gap in your lines, while you still hold a portion, than to delay a mass rout by a few seconds. Another thing, do not wait too long to commit your reserves! If there are telltale signs of bulges/gaps in your line, units wavering and on the verge of routing, then commiting your reserves are too late. Estimate based on your knowledge of the enemy troops and your own, and commit your reserves early.

    Deployment

    Before you get Poeni Infantry and other phalanx type units, try to deploy in two lines! Sometimes, it's a good idea to place your ranged infantry at your flanks. If the enemy ignore them, they get free shots at their flanks. If the enemy chase them, they can skirmish away, safely taking an enemy unit out of the fight and on a merry chase (providing both are foot units, of course). Even if the enemy units is cavalry, it gives your cavalry a free shot at the passing unit. Simply order your ranged unit to engage in melee, and you have a perfect flanking setup. Well, the ranged unit would be chewed up, but usually your ranged units are mercenary Cretan Archers or Rhodian Slingers, and both units can melee quite well. Just deploy them in formations 3-4 deep if you expect such a situation. Other than this tip, I don't have much to offer here. I expect any formation applicable to Roman/Barbarian/Greek factions is applicable here as well. That I leave to more experienced people!


    The Army, Elephants

    "Rrrrrawwwwrrrrr! *Snort*.... Peeeeeaaaaaaaannnuts!!!

    Yep, meet your all-peanut-eating corps, your secret weapon, your ace in the hole. If there's one thing the Senate would itch for, it's a supply of elephants to use in their armies. They're great infantry and cavalry bashers. Though I've had more experience using them against infantry, their effectiveness in that role is good enough for me to rate them as a Carthaginian must have unit.
    Alright, the role that these fellows fill is... support! Yep, they are a unit that is most effective only when used in conjunction with other units! Strictly speaking, what they do is give the enemy a sudden shock, punch wide lanes through enemy formations, and teach people how to fly. The first, could cause valour 0 enemies (with a command 0 general) to rout right away, however, anything tougher than that would require help. An elephant charge works very well when followed by another unit's charge. Cavalry is good, though infantry could do in this case. It's also a good idea to manually direct them after a charge, as they tend to get bogged down kindly instructing your enemies in the art of flying, the bane of all cavalry (the bogged down part). Simply double click behind the greatest concentration of enemies to carve nice lanes through them. So, view elephants as a kind of charge enhancer, that makes a follow up charge by another unit more effective.

    One thing to be careful, elephants die quickest when they are routed in the midst of an enemy formation, and when they are pursued by enemy cavalry. For the first case, there's nothing much you can do, other then letting them rampage free. For the second case, send some cavalry after them! You get a free charge into the rear of an enemy cavalry unit, and you save a few elephants on the way.

    Deployment

    The theory that the deeper the formation, the more devastating the charge can also be applied here, although, as a complimentary unit, the impact you'd want will depend on how you'd like to exploit it. A deeper formation is more suited to a follow up cavalry charge, as the damage (moral and physical) is more focused. A good follow up punch by a deep formation of heavy cavalry is to best effect here, as the lanes through enemy units is more capably exploited by a deep cavalry formation (a punch-through is more likely).
    A follow up infantry (pah! ) charge would probably be more effective when the elephants are deployed in a shallow formation, as infantry lack the speed and impact to effectively exploit the lanes, they do fill the gaps in lanes, but they depend more on chewing through the weakened enemy formation than shattering it through impact.

    The Army, Mercenaries

    "The pay packet... first! "

    A common sight in your army, these green guys. They are slightly weaker in stats than their parent unit, cost something from 350-1000+ denarii to hire, and are very useful. Four common mercenary units that you'll see often as Carthage are Cretan Archers, Rhodian Slingers, Numidian Mercenaries, and Libyan Skirmishers. The first two are excellent ranged units, some of the best to be found in and around the meditarennean. Since Carthage is unable to train archers for themselves, you'll find yourself relying on these fellows pretty much. Hire them whenever you can, you won't regret it. Numidian Mercenaries are excellent, ultra-light (it's their garments! see?) missile cavalry. Although they can hardly kill a unit of peasants in a charge, they are excellent in luring those peasants to another unit which can kindly do the job for them. They are also fast, and have no problems catching up with heavy cavalry. You could sometimes sacrifice a unit of these fellows by charging a retreating heavy cavalry unit (knowing they'll turn around and engage), allowing your own cavalry to catch up. Well, they're mercenaries, so I view them as being more expendable. They are also great at galloping down a fleeing general. Libyan Skirmishers? I haven't used them much, but they are rather plentiful, and stationing heaps of them behind a line of your own fragile infantry makes the enemy rout much faster. Their javalins provide much support to your line, cutting down and demoralising enemy troops just before they charge. Consider them something that beefs up your line.

    Deployment

    Did you know that you can select the order in which units line up in the single line formation? Ever been frustrated as that unit of Mercenary Hoplites are always placed on the flank? Well, I was... Select your units in the order you'd like them grouped to have them line up in that order. Eg: select *Iberian, Iberian, Hoplites, Iberian, Iberian* to have the unit of hoplites to deploy in the center when you order a single line formation. Cheers!
    Well, treat your mercenaries as normal units in terms of deployment, perhaps taking into account their expandability, and that they are slightly weaker and have lesser morale (I think?). Other than that, they're like any other unit.


    I think I have exceeded the length limit of a post? Cool! Coming up next, Precision Strikes, Urban Warfare and The Navy!
    >Fear less, hope more,
    >eat less, chew more,
    >whine less, breathe more,
    >talk less, say more,
    >love more,
    >and all good things
    >will be yours.
    >
    >- Swedish Proverb

  17. #17

    Default Re: Carthage

    Your first post and a very constructive one too!

  18. #18

    Default Re: Carthage

    Personally I've noticed that after taking scicily a quick strike to Capua is very usefull. If done right you can then eliminate the senate very early on. the objective here is not to hold those territories but rather dropping the scippii from the game then (if situation permits) doing the same to Rome. The Senate tends to station a FULL stack outside of (the early game) Rome. This allows for you to cause major havoc on both the remaining roman houses (drops a fair amount of trade -land & sea-) I have typically abandoned them/let them go rebel. My objective at that time is to damage my most powerful enemies (early I haven't forgotten egypt) with out overstreching my forces.

    Carthage has major advantages in an early game siege with elephants. standard ones early game are far too valuable (IMHO) to risk on melee. When you get War & Armoured Elephants they are more capable in actual combat and have arrow towers mounted on top. I ONLY use against cavalry in melee. this is a quick way of developing Tritio's mentioned Cavalry superiority. They get a bonus against cav and can shoot them in the back as they rout (while heading towards the next victim).

    Later on you can use seige towers to block the gateway's arrows and put ladders up to the wall this get your troops up faster and more protected.

    Really it helps that Carthage can focus on it's powerfull cav and still get it's best infantry the Sacred Band with out building ANY barracks - All you need is an Awesome Temple of Baal and at the same level as Poeni infantry. They are a capable phalanx unit that provides WONDERFUL holding ability for you cavalry to flank.

  19. #19
    Kanto Kanrei Member Marshal Murat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I pumped up the carthage with like 500000 denarii, so this would doubtfully apply. But it helps.

    As soon as you get you Lybian Spearmen, pump them out. One or two can engage a Hastati and come out on top. They, with Poeni, and Sacred band are you home trained foot troops, the iberians just suck. Use them with a huge cavalry force. Sacred Cavalry, and Sacred Band take two turns to train. Well worth it.

    Sacred cavalry are good heavy hitters and with the Sacred Band pinning the enemy, they can shear away enemy troops.
    bribery is to be your best friend.
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    Re: Pursuit of happiness
    Have you just been dumped?

    I ask because it's usually something like that which causes outbursts like this, needless to say I dissagree completely.

  20. #20
    Member Member Tritio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karthadt

    Here's the follow up second part of my guide...

    Earlier on I've covered:
    -What you can expect as Carthage
    -The (lack of) Freedom of Choice
    -The Economy
    -Diplomancy
    -The Army, Cavalry
    -The Army, Infantry
    -The Army, Elephants
    -The Army, Mercenaries

    Here I'll be continuing with
    -The Navy
    -Urban Warfare
    -Precision Strikes

    So, here goes!

    The Navy

    "Sail the seas, they said... See the world, they said... Render your service unto your motherland, they said... Join the Navy, they said... Pah!"

    First of all, the Navy sails the seas, right? Since the seas are such a vital source of income as Carthage, the Navy is as vital as your army, right? Well, depends on how you look at it.
    The functions of the Navy are:
    =Defend your ports from blockades
    =Transport your armies
    It also serves to hinder the functioning of the enemy's navy:
    =Blockade enemy ports
    =Interdict transported armies

    That's it! Surprised? Yes, the functions are few, as are the functions of Armies, for example, when examined closely.
    ---Defend your settlements
    ---Capture other settlements
    ---Blockade ports (from land, yes, you can do this!)

    Other capabilities of the Navy and Army, like destroying other ships and Armies, are just means to an end, actually. Duties like scouting out the map/sea, or defending your borders are similarly subfunctions of the Navy/Army. Why do you attack another Ship/Army? It is in part to weaken and reduce the assets of the enemy whereas maintaining and guarding your own, to prevent the enemy from fufilling his objectives, and to aid in completing your objectives. You can't Transport your armies to Sicily and prevent Roman expeditions from landing off Carthage if the sea is swarming with Roman ships, for example.

    Therefore, with the knowledge of the functions of a Navy, you can better appreciate it's use and importance. You can understand, for example, why some nations like Parthia have little need for a navy when their empire is confined to the deserts. Only 2 of their provinces (Campus Sekae and the province north of Susa) have a port, and trading opportunities are scarce, with only 3 ports in that little sea. Therefore a navy is of little importance to them. However, picking a less extreme example, the Julii also place little importance in their navy if they expand north. Given that much of their revenue is derived from landlocked provinces to the north. The key to estimating the worth of a Navy is the wealth that is available via trade. If you derive much of your income from the sea, whichever nation you are, then a Navy will be of more importance to you.

    Now that the importance of a Navy can be estimated, let us move on to the strengths and weaknesses of a navy.

    A Navy is capable of performing a different variety of tasks from an army, and it's role is exclusive and unique. Though all Navies can perform the same tasks, their host of duties are that which no other unit can do.
    One strength lies in the openness and unclaimability of the sea. One side of the mediterannean cannot be isolated from another. One portion of the sea cannot be claimed to belong to a nation. Thus ships are able to travel to wherever there is water, and this brings with it the ability to travel to exotic places, contact all the nations of the world, and transport your armies to wherever you please. This is especially important considering the shape of the Mediterannean. If one wishes to visit the opposite shore of it, once could spend 3-4 seasons sailing by ship, or half a lifetime travling by foot. By the same virtue of accesibility, the ships of your Allies also have less trouble attacking your enemies than their armies, though they may be far away.

    The weakness of a Navy is that they do not travel very quickly, only as fast as a light army. The battles which they fight in also have little strategy and no tactics. Thus the intelligence of a player can only bring the Navy as far as to concentrate his many against the enemy's few. Battles can only be auto-resolved, and that can be skewed to the favour of the computer, depending on the level of difficulty on which you are playing (above normal). The accesibility of your ships to all the shores of the world also means your shores are accesible to your enemies too! Unlike on land, where only a few factions can fight you in places which your borders meet, your ships are fair game for all your enemies in the Seven Seas, as are your shores, for amphibious assaults...

    Thus, your Navy can be a powerful striking force, cutting off your enemy's seaborne income, and landing your forces wherever you wish. It is also the only thing which prevents the same from being done to you. Is it important for Carthage? You bet.

    Carthage is extremely vulnerable from the enemy navies. Firstly, your major towns are all located near the sea, meaning any seaborne invasion will only allow you one turn (or less) to respond. Secondly, the bulk of your income is derived from seaborne trade. A single blockade can throw your delicate economy into the red. Thirdly, your mortal enemies, the Romans, are in a much better position than you to field a Navy. Their hearlands are secure in Italy from land based assault (except for the Julii), and they are firmly allied. Meaning that tripping one faction off will see you facing the combined Naval might of all 4 factions, and any allies they may have. The Naval war seems stacked against you. What do you do?

    Your initial objectives should be thus:
    1) Ensure the survival of your Navy
    2) Defend your ports
    3) Stop amphibious assaults

    1) Ensure the survival of your Navy. Does this mean I don't fight any battles? Nah, this is meant in the more strategic sense. The first step is to form alliances with other seaborne powers. This would throw more weight against your enemies. Some good targets are The Greek Cities, Spain, and Egypt if possible. Nations in 3 corners of the Mediterannean. Sailing would be more of a breeze with them around... The second step is to increase the toughness of your ships. Build bigger ships! Triremes! Quinqueremines! Deceres! Titanics! Obviously, this gives you more fighting power, and involves some infrastructuring on the dry side of a beach. Also, give them weapons and armour upgrades (retrain ships in a port to replace losses, and give upgrades) whenever possible. A blacksmith does not only provide services for the landlubbers! Good cities to retrain your men are Carthage, the city south of it, and captured cities in Italy. They often have a high level of development. While this is a long term development plan, and indeed, it goes on till the end of the game, do what you can in the early game. Regularly retrain your ships whenever there is a new level of blacksmith to be found.

    2) Defend your ports. Although I have yet to see a lengthy AI blockade, indeed, seeing one would amaze me already! This involves keeping ships near your valuable ports (Carthage), and making sure that no port is too far away from your ships. Corduba has the tendency to be left out and forgotten in the Naval war, given the action seen around the Sicily. This is just in case... anyway, they can be put to good use ferrying your troops around.

    3) Stop amphibious assaults. This involves preemptive action, and quite a bit of scouting. To stop an amphibious assault, first of all, you'd have to find one. Any number of ships can transport a 20-unit army, and you would'nt want that one to slip by! View the profile of a stack to see if they carry passengers. A diplomat or a general are valuable targets to take out. To get enough advance warning, you'd have to scout along expected routes of invasion. The primary route for Roman assaults is between Sicily and Sardinia. You can take care of the scouting bit by building a watchtower on the western end of Sicily, and placing a spy/watchtower on the eastern end of Sardinia. Any gap in between will have to be covered by a ship. You can also roughly time assults, by gauging the number of turns an enemy would have to build up a fair sized army (depends on his territorial size), and by observing the number of enemies he has, other than you. Also, after the main stack arrives, a smaller, reinforcement stack can be expected a few turns later. For example, the Julii, having only 3 cities and no enemies (no, they didn't touch the Gauls). Took about 10 turns from the declaration of war to plop down a big army (About 10-15 units, with Principes!) outside Carthage rather early in the game. A reinforcing stack (about 5 units) was plopping along about 3-5 turns later.

    In the tactical sense, the Battles of a Navy is a game of maneuvre, where you would try to position more of your better equipped against the enemy. Nothing very complicated here, what skills you need here can just be gained by experience... At the start of the game, however, be careful about the battles you choose. Having few ships, you'd not want to risk them. You need them for transporting your army! Therefore, try to hop from port to port every turn. Most enemy ships do not attack units stationed in port. Also, a single ship (in VH/H) has a very big chance of being sunk on the spot when being attacked by 2 enemy ships. Even on the same experience level, this can happen! Do not transport Armies/Characters with ONE ship!!! As far as is possible. Throughout my campaign, I have sent out 3 diplomats to the east, to try to contact the egyptians. 2 were sunk in such one-battle jokes... the other sunk in a series of battles. Once, a 12 unit army needed in Italy was also sunk in a single battle... What rotten sailors... heed this warning, or experience it for yourself...!

    Well, only later in the game will your Navy be able to develop to the extent where you can overwhelm Rome and keep it on the defensive, if not carrying the battle to them. But this will only be possible if your land based campaign is going along pretty well, and you can devote more resources to producing ships.

    With a mature Navy, you can apply pressure to ports all over the world, grinding an advasary's trade to a halt, and confining him to land. What a symbol of true, global power! Thus, you can invest early in your Navy. The end result is well worth it.


    Urban Warfare (UW)


    Well, here we come to the hard part. Early Carthage always has difficulties with Urban Warfare, due to it's weak infantry (before Poeni). It's good cavalry can't help very much in the cities. So that leaves us with a few options. Your (weak) army, mercenaries, ranged units, and your elephants. To allow cavalry to slug it out in street battles is a mistake. As you find, they get chewed apart all too easily, and their charge is bugged in the cities. If you deploy them in a wide formation on the strips of dirt beside roads, all too often they pathfind their way (badly) to where you don't want them to go, or they pause just before impact during a charge. If you deploy them on the roads, they lack the punch to push through infantry. Urban Warfare is the realm of the footsoldier. Horsemen will do well to tread lightly in cities...

    However, there is one type of very heavy cavalry that can do well in UW. Elephants! Although their charge is also bugged, although they can only deploy in very long formations, only 2 elephants wide, although they die easily when they rout, they are (as usual) a great aid!

    Firstly, they can handle all sorts of wooden walls. Just send a unit, and only unlucky gentle giant will have to hammer his head against the wall, and sooner or later, it falls. The animation is... provocative... I itch to edit one of those screenshots to show some unlucky fellow doing some head banging... aaaannyway, you don't have to build seige equipment for wooden walls, and you can assault them the turn you start the seige. For the fighting part, they are mainly useful at pushing away enemy troops. Especially good for dealing with enemy phalanxes, or heavy infantry in general. Back them up with infantry, and you'll do pretty well.

    One important thing! Do NOT charge your elephants through stone gates with boiling oil upgrades when they are held by the enemy! DO NOT! Why? Oh, lets just say an elephant catches fire as easily as a well oiled pig... They will rout and make it a bad day for you... Even sending a unit of Iberian Infantry won't cause them to rout, even though more than a quarter (often half) of their unit will be incinerated. Capture the gates via seige towers/ladders before you send troops through.

    Other than elephants, the units you need are ranged units like cretan archers, Rhodian slingers, or skirmishers. Each is good at it's own area. Cretan archers are great at softening up defences (mainly for wooden walls) before the charge by shooting up units behind the walls. The high trajectory of their shots allow them to do the same for stone walls (I think they can for the smaller ones... not that sure). Rhodian slingers can also do the above, but their margin of error is smaller, and you'd have to micromanage to place the unit at the exact spot where their shots clear the wall, and hit the enemy. Get some practice... it's easy to get used to. The slingers are good at shooting up the enemy when the breach has been made. See an enemy unit waiting for you? just position a unit of slingers outside the breach, and let them sling away. The enemy unit will move away... or die. Skirmishers come onto their own fighting in the closed streets and alleys. The best way to defeat a big block of heavy infantry crowding the streets is to weather them down with missiles, then fight them with units backed up with lots of skirmishers. Lots and lots... after that, it's just a trip to the town centre, where finally, your cavalry can partake in the battle with a final charge to finish the lucky few who can survive all the remaining ammunition thrown at them.

    Well, your pre-poeni infantry just sucks... face it. Libyan spearmen can hardly stop a cavalry charge! pah... so, to satiate the meatgrinder of city battles, I'd recommend you get mercenaries... lots of them. Spanish mercs and Barbarian mercs are great at in close fighting, Libyan skirmishers can supplement your skirmishing force, and Samnite warriors can go against their own people of Italy fairly well. Just back them up, don't stop to weep over their bodies, and press on. I am ruthless at throwing unit after unit of mercenaries at the enemy. They can die before my own soldiers! Here, the mighty denarii will show it's worth! Mwahahaha....

    When you get Poeni infantry or Scared Band, it's smooth sailing in Urban Battles from then on. Just conduct battles the Greek way from then on...

    I've exceeded the post limit AGAIN! Woot! Well, there's not much left, just the conclusion... keep reading!
    >Fear less, hope more,
    >eat less, chew more,
    >whine less, breathe more,
    >talk less, say more,
    >love more,
    >and all good things
    >will be yours.
    >
    >- Swedish Proverb

  21. #21
    Member Member Tritio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karthadt

    Here's the third and last bit...

    -Here is a tactic that can be used against infantry heavy armies, particularly the Romans

    Precision Strikes


    This is a move in the strategic (world) map to use a concentration of your forces to eliminate a specific element in your opponent's army. The moral here is, you don't have to kill them all, just take out something important, then take out the rest later. For example, you could gather an all cavalry army to tackle a mixed roman legion with the target of eliminating their cavalry units, giving you cavalry superiority in the next battle. Other examples would be to eliminate their archers, generals, etc, then bring in all your troops the next turn to crush them. I have used this tactic to great effect against the Senate Field Army. As you know, they have a good mix of Hastati, Principes, and Triarii units with 3 chevrons and at least bronze weapons and armour upgrades. However, their 'cavalry' consists of their general and family member's bodyguards. Taking out all their cavalry would allow you to lure and defeat their infantry piecemeal, and leave them without a general. Simply lure the target (or everyone else) out into an exposed position with light cavalry (Numidians are good for this), and let em have it from your cavalry. Ambushes can also be used achieve this. Yes, horsemen can be hidden in trees too. Then, you'd have free run of the field the next battle! This is also good for phalanx based armies. A phalanx army without cavalry... mmmm.... tasty.... For cavalry based armies eg, the Numidians, you could consider taking out their infantry... so you can concentrate on the horsemen next time.

    Doing so would mean retreating from a battle, yes? Well, sometimes when you retreat, even after a perfectly good precision strike, your army is halved!

    Shucks... I always reload after that one... Trying to find out the cause, I believe that sending units short on movement points on the world map may cause such a thing. Also, it does not happen when there is no engagement, that is, no fighting, (I often command battles when my scouting forces are engaged by big, unknown armies, to determine it's composition). Thus I suspect that casualty rates may have something to do with it. Maybe if there are more casualties on your side, and a few routs, the chance of this happening increases. However, I do not know the details. It should not be related to the number of cavalry units in the army (who might, you know, give chase, in real life). After wiping out the Senate army's cavalry force (every unit was decimated, those who lived were less than 10, and they were fleeing when I withdrew), I withdrew to find my forces cut in half. Rubbish! Anyway, be aware and careful of this phenomenon...

    Well, that wraps up the final topic of precision strikes, and my (small) and first guide I've written... for Carthage! I hope that, after such a long read, your eyesight hasen't deteriorated, and that you have hopefully gained something to help you, and have enjoyed youself along the way. Thank you for reading it!


    May you be well and happy!
    >Fear less, hope more,
    >eat less, chew more,
    >whine less, breathe more,
    >talk less, say more,
    >love more,
    >and all good things
    >will be yours.
    >
    >- Swedish Proverb

  22. #22
    A Livonian Rebel Member Slaists's Avatar
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    Default Re: Karthadt

    Just a few quick notes.

    I'm playing Carthague now VH/M and enjoying it the Carthagian way, hence:

    Messina issue: A quick elephant-led strike along the northern coast of the island to Messine after you have allied with Greeks and waited for the Scipii army to march into their territory (or yours, if they choose so) will cripple Scipii considerably. To people who disapprove rush: Messina used to be a Carthagian city, taken over by romans who took advantage of a local rebellion there... It's only fair for Carthage to have it back. By the way, make sure Scipii pay some tribute to your efforts by buying a map/trade rights from you before the strike ;)

    Siracuse issue: Since, at the beginning, you are rather cash starved: I would suggest not to build an army to take Siracuse (Greeks are your allies anyways: you woudln't want to screw up your diplomatic reputation by breaking an alliance while your diplomats are working hard selling maps/trade agreements to the world). Send in a bunch of spies and make the city revolt (it will take some time). Once Siracuse is controlled by peasants, send all your Sicilian regiments in and take it. The remaining greeks might actually help you in this enterprise...

    Sardinia issue: use this as your training ground for aspiring young generals. An elephant unit + the general's unit + a couple cavalry units (long shields preferable due to their superior charge. note that round shields do not have any charge...) are usually sufficient to hold the island safe from roman expeditions. I've had 16 year old generals go from 0 to 10 command stars in not time in Sardinia. Since the town is small and underdeveloped, they pick up a few nice traits along with those; + a bunch of experience chevrons...

    p.s. my experience farming in Sardinia got abruptly stopped last night: the Julii sent their last heir and family member on a suicide mission there and the turn after their faction leader died... their faction got wiped out... :( scipii hit the bucket in a similar fashion, trying to retake mesina. now, it's only brutii (who have taken over most of italy already reacting quickly to the changes in the peninsula) and the senate left of the roman gang...

    Capua/Scipii issue: take your time. I'd suggest sending in a plague infected spy to chill out there (i didn't want to rush italy militarily before I controlled all of spain)... Yesterday, the last of Scipii was killed by plague (a courtesy of my subterfuge guy) while his brother bit the dust near Mesina in Sicily in a vein attempt to retake the city. I have to confess: I am tempted to send the same spy to Rome: a special gift to the senate!

    Cordoba issue: at the beginning (before you get your cash flowing so you can afford a decent army), make your general run around and build guard towers on hills and forts near river passages and in narrow valleys; station a unit of urban militia/peasants in each of those (worked for me). This will serve to keep Spaniards/Gauls at bay while you are able to send an elephant unit from africa to help... To hint who was the boss, I made sure I always built forts on my adversary's side of the river ;) So, if they started anything: they'd be the ones getting devastation.

    Beware of the Spanish diplomats: they'll attempt bribing your Cordoba garrison; if you send your general on tower building duty without any entourage: they are likely to offer some cash to him too. And, it's not only the Spaniards: the Gauls have tried to pull the same trick too. In order to avoid a painful disappointment, (1) keep the stack in Cordoba pumped up with some peasants, urban milita (larger stacks are more expensive to bribe), (2) do not leave your general alone (have some cavalry ride with him around), (3) strip the spaniars from their hard earned cash by selling the usual map/trade agreement combo to an unsuspecting low-influence captain of theirs, (4) bribe their emissary (using the cash from #3)... (5) after cordoba grows to the level in which it can produce spies: you are all set: keep one in the city, another one with your general...

    Numidia issue: try to sell trade rights/map/alliance package to them. It seems, they are more willing to accept small payment deal over a long time period rather than a one time deal. I threw in military access special (them being allowed in my lands: for they invariably wander around my lands uninvited anyways) into the pile to lur them into signing it... I just hate to run after those skirmishing cavalry-men on the field which I'd have to do had I decided to deal with Numidia militarily. In the longer run, the spaniards will probably help you by taking marocco from Numidians; other than that: send in your plague infected spies into numidan towns and let the sickness/spies do the rest. Take the abandoned settlements at your leisure while receiving your unsucpecting neighbor's tributes.

    Spain revisited: after you have secured Cordoba, and the elephant unit from Carthage has arrived, the Spaniards (Iberians) are on your menu probably, they have attacked you anyway in their in-measurable silliness. start with a hands-on lesson to Novo Carthago on why is it bad to ally with romans. morocco, if the Spaniards have taken it, is a nice starter too - grab it before the Numidians have recaptured it. After Novo Carthago (and Morocco if available), work your way around the Iberian peninsula... Balearic slingers are nice and Spanish mercenaries help as well... You can give the Gauls some whacking while you are at it too :) Anyway, after Spain, my intent is to have a Hannibalish party in the Italian countryside :)

    ooops, it didn't come out as short as i believed it would be :)
    Last edited by Slaists; 10-29-2004 at 15:58.

  23. #23
    Member Member Nestor's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    In medium/medium you can go after all of the roman factions in a few turns. (arround 260BC in my campaigns)

    ESSENTIALS: Italian army: Your faction leader, a unit of elephants (as was extraordinarily well already explained) 3-5 round shield cavalry. Minimise losses on elephants, you can replenish casualties in cavalry and your general takes care for himself! (Infantry is just there to make you feel better and occupy the conquered cities)

    NAVY: Just enough to push back the enemy. They are using the same ships, so, one time you win, one time you lose. No matter! You just delay them until your italian army destroys them!

    MY ADVICE: DON'T DO IT! Don't overkill the romans! They are nice people after all: they keep the fun in the game by being the most reliable opposition. Everything was happening veeeery slow after their destruction! (In fact if you keep peace with the Egyptians you can win blindfolded!)

    I'll say it again: R:TW without R(ome) and roman factions as opponents = NO FUN

  24. #24

    Default Re: Carthage

    You can't play carthage like any other faction. Its just impossible to win.First youre going to have to abandon two cities, thats right two cities.Get all of your units in corduba and in caralais and ship them to lylibaeum.
    What kind of defeatist way is that?

    What I did was to abandon Caralis, they simply had too few troops there. Send the troops from Caralis down to Carthage, build up in Carthage, including one group of elephants, and take it back within some years. Corduba has never been abandoned. The Spanish bribed it though when I was on my way to take Carthago Nova, but I will return and crush them. Caralis was ok to abandon, it was close and could easily be taken back. Corduba however is not smart to abandon, it is your stronghold in Spain, your way to weaken the Spanish and the Gauls as they continiously sends troops there...

  25. #25
    War Story Recorder Senior Member Maltz's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I just started a Carthage campaign on VHard/VHard. Thia faction is one of the most interesting and satisfactory. It is only 4 years into the game, and I already exterminated every town of Burtii, Scipii, and Rome as well! Here is what I did:

    Basic strategy: Concentrate all attacks on Rome factions.

    (1) Send the fraction leader's army to attack Brutii. Turn 2 I could just reach Croton and took it. Turn 3 I took Tarentum. Brutii eliminated right from the beginning!

    Brutii sent its main army across the sea already, so they were rather defenseless at home. I used the elephant unit to breach 2 openings on the wall/gate. Then I trapped the roaming velite with my general's cavalry and kill them all. The slingers & mercenary horse lancers killed some hastati and general's cavalry on the street and the city square. The infantry mobed up from different directions to finish them all.

    Tarentum has a stable, so it is a good base for round shield cavalry for a while. In Carthage (the capital city) I also go for exclusively round shield cavalry, and upgraded the stable and starts to build elephant.

    (2) Turn 5 I captured Capua, the Scipii town. I actually attacked the army just outside the town, so once I also killed the generals and routed the massacred reinforcement from the castle, the town became almost defenseless. A cross-sword mark left on the battlefield.

    The Scipii sent a few lone units trying to recapture the Brutii towns, but I bribed them all. The SQPR soon sent a strong army close to the border.

    (3) Turn 7 or 8 the transporting ship arrived at Capua's shore. My faction leader led a surprise attack to Rome. This way I don't have to face the formidable Senate army. Outside Rome there was also a small stack. I attacked it with a small part of my army (or they will retreat and become untouch-able). After I eliminated the small, reinforcing Rome garrison army with another cross-sword, Rome was mine!

    I exterminated every single town up to this point to boost my bank account, and to leave the least number of garrison possible. I use that money to bribe away all of the unwanted engagements, including a 3(command)-3(management)-3(influence) general from Julii, and another useless guy from Scipii.

    The Senate army now becomes "the Latin rebel", with 4 family members not far away from Rome. Two of them have super high influence. I wish to save up to bribe them at once. They will make excellent governer of Rome and Carthage once they hit the 24,000 pop. mark. I just sent an assassin to start killing the other 2 useless guys, so I can bribe this army with a cheaper price.

    In the mantime, Corduba has already been captured by the mighty Gauls in the 5th or 6th turn (glad I gave it up). With the starting army from Corduba, Palma and the other starting city just below Carthage (forgot name), I formed a 2nd army and already bleached the entire Sicily white by the time Rome fell. The Greeks already moved their army away so they had no resistance. The Scipii never did anything meaningful except giving me a another cross-sword on the battlefield. I bribed the annoying Greek diplomat after he refused a ceasefire.

    So far no faction has agreed to ally with me. The Numadians came very soon, but under cash influence only to erect a new, better-looking hooked-moon. I now wish to keep them as my "unofficial recruiting center".

    Also, even if I no longer share a border settlement with the Gauls & Greeks, they still don't want a ceasefire. I wonder whether the Carthage is programmed to have diplomatic struggle or what, but gladly my maps are still sold for 3k each.

    I guess from this point on it will be quite easy. I now plan to expand north to finish off the Julii and push away the Gauls, while in the meantime kick the Greeks/Macedons.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Carthage

    I think the Roman Blitz is the way to go. If you hold onto Sicily, the trading partners for 2 of 3 of the ports are Roman (for anything above a port)

    If I do another campaign its Rome first for me Nestor has a good point-the Romans do add more challenge to the game-but why struggle to keep/expand your lands and lose decent trade income?

    It may be enough to just take Croton and Tarentum (sp) from Brutii since these seems to be the trade cities you need...but Capua is so close and Rome is just a short hop from Capua...
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  27. #27
    Member Member Hambut_bulge's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Playing my first Carthage campaign (medium/medium) at the moment, and it is possible, though by no means easy, to not give any ground at all at the start. The most dangerous point was about five years in on Sicily. I'd set up trade agreements with both the Greeks and the Scipii, but held off an alliance the Greeks. Obviously the Romans were going to attack me at some point, but I didn't want to get sucked in too early. As expected/hoped Scipio went for the Greeks first. A couple of turns later the Julii showed up outside Caralis, so I allied with the Greeks, who responded three turns later, having just lost a big battle with the Scipii, by stabbing me in the back and declaring war So I abandoned the Greeks in Syracuse to their fate, shipped in extra troops from Carthage and beseiged both Messana and Syracuse as soon as the later fell to Scipio. I now subsequently own the whole of Sciliy, and the Scipii have one province, so they're effective out of it.

    Meanwhile on Sardina, the Julii have sent army after army, all led by family members, to what has become a Julian graveyard outside the gates of Caralis, which I've been defending with one general, three town militia, and four iberian infantry. I ship in peasants from Carthage from time to time to boost the population and allow retraining. The general became a god, so I'm now using Caralis as a training ground for the rest of the family. The Scipii have lately decided to join the party/funeral here as well.

    In the west I've wound up fighting Spain (intentionally) and Gaul (they started it). I took Carthago Nova right at the start of that and Spain isn't a problem now. The downside is that that streched me a bit thin and as a result I've been essentially fire-fighting against the Gauls as they alternately attack Carthago Nova and Corduba. Bit by bit though I've built up and have just had what I hope will be the decisive clash with Gaul (in Iberia anyway) by luring a Gaul army to fight over the bridge north of Corduba. My defence. My 1,000 men held up and ultimately slaughtered a force of 1,700 Gauls. I'm now moving up to take to Gallic provence in Iberia.

    Back home I'm also expanding against the Numdians. This isn't too difficult as they're fielding relatively small armies. Caution is required though I think, due to the large distances between settlements on the North African coast.

    After playing twenty years or so, the only faction stronger than me are the Egyptians. I'm debating whether to go for Rome or not, but I'm tempted to keep them around for a bit, if only for General training at Caralis.

    So far though this has a been much more interesting and challenging campaign than the Julii.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Carthage

    pour moi les cartaginoi sont la faction la plus interessante dans la mesure ou ils disposent de l armee la plus complete du jeu (avec les selucides) .
    l infanterie sans egaler l infanterie romaine reste tres bonne et les lanciers libyen peuvent parfetement tenir tete au triarii, l arme la plus dangereuse a la disposition des cartaginois reste a mon avi les elephants: le plus interessant est de les placer sur les flancs et derriere eux la cavalerie lourde (les placer en avant du front peu s averer dangerux si les elephants panique) de telle sorte que vos elephants pietinent la cavalerie adverse se qui laisse le champ libre a la cavalerie pour prendre l ennemie a rever.
    je vous conseille egalement de completer votre armee avec des mercenaire numides mais aussi des frondeurs des balears et des espagniols

  29. #29

    Default Re: Carthage

    If you want a challenge, then Carthage is for you. Carthage is real challenge in the beginning. I was fighting all four Roman factions, the Spanish, Numidians, Gaul, and after a brief alliance the back stabbing Greeks . Obviously I was learning the diplomatic ropes in this game. The middle game gets a little easier, but is still no picnic. At your first opportunity convert the Gauls into an ally. They came around after I had put the Spanish faction out of commission. You don't have to give up any cities, just survive the early game. Caralis was a Julii graveyard for more years than I care to remember. It would have got boring if I didn't enjoy kicking the Romans around. Caralis is a great training ground for Generals as mentioned in another posting. Emphasize your cavalry, that is the Carthaginian strength. Even when you have elephants. Use the Elephants as wrecking balls, and follow up the Elephant charges with Cavalry. In fact, if necessary sacrifice your cavalry to save the elephants backsides literally. That appears to be the Elephants weakness is their rear. Keep the Elephants moving always, and protect their rear. Then, turn loose the cavalry on the routing enemy. Elephants and Cavalry have been unstoppable so far in the game. Use Skirmishers to screen, and to support phalanx troops in urban fighting. Archers are probably the most deadly Roman unit, but can be managed by using skirmishers to engage archers. Then use cavalry against any archers that stray to far from their infantry support.

    At this point in the Game, the only remaining enemies are the Roman Brutii, and the Greeks. The Western Mediterranean is my pond, and the eastern Mediterranean will be soon (along with our Egyptian allies). Good to have both flanks covered with Gaul, and Egypt as allies. In the end game you will need cavalry to even get into a fight. The Romans run in fear as soon as they see the Carthaginian army. Could it be from all of the @$$ wippings they have been taking? They do keep coming, even when all they have is depleted units. Let the Romans break on a Fortress. In my case it was Caralis early, then Patavium, and Segestica once Cathage took Italy. The Romans never seem to give up once they have a city in mind. Use that city as a training ground for Generals, and to create Veteran units. Then hit the Romans where they are weak.

    I like the Sacred Band Infantry. But am having a hard time getting them into the fight against the Romans in field battles. I have had better luck getting them in the action against the Greeks, and in urban warfare. The Romans have generally routed by the time the phalanx troops arrive in field battles.

    Hope this helps, more tricks in a later posting.

    Duke Kent


    Will have to try the strategy of sacking and selling off buildings of Romans in the early game as suggested in another posting. Interesting, and cunning strategy. Something Ghengis Khan might relish

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I've begun playing a M/H campaign with Carthage. I have found that three things are very helpful at the start:

    1) Take Sicily. I took Syracuse first as once that is lost the Greeks do not try to recapture it. The Romans try to recapture Messana so I try to take Syracuse first.
    2) Hold Corduba and ally with Gaul.
    3) Kill Scipii. Start off by hammering the navy as they start with no ports and only a couple of ships.

    I tried to play as Carthage once before and lost Corduba to Gaul and so found that allying with them is very helpful. I then lost Caralis to the Julii because I did not reinforce it as they attacked 2nd turn. I was surprised and all of my troops were either in Africa demolishing the Numidians or in Sicily besieging Syracuse. With two thirds of my army trundling across africa they mauled Numidia but I lost Sicily. NEVER DO THIS. I found that the Scipii began to attack Carthage. With my army near Egypt I could not face the Romans in Sicily again. I also started using infantry as my main force. In short, it was a mistake.

    Use cavalry as much as possible. Ally with the Gauls and maybe the Greeks. Kill Scipii quickly. I did it this time round by taking Capua and Messana simultaneously. It required a little skill in the battles but it worked. I moved on to attack the Spanish. I also sent a half-stack to attack the Julii having withdrawn from Capua (it wasn't worth the trouble of facing the senate and the Brutii to keep it.

    The Julii lost a lot of men against my cavalry and the Gauls. The alliance I had made earlier came in handy. I have now destroyed Scipii and Spain and Julii is almost dead. I am now going to try and take Rome.


    'My intelligence is not just insulted, it's looking for revenge with a gun and no mercy. ' - Frogbeastegg

    SERA NIMIS VITA EST CRASTINA VIVE HODIE

    The life of tomorrow is too late - live today!

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