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Thread: Carthage

  1. #691
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Yeah, I know the greeks are a bunch of bastards, but I'm hoping they'll keep their fleets away from Sicilian soil for the time being. I also realize that navy is imperative for the carthaginians, I'll get on to it as soon as I'm comfortable with the horse numbers. Fortunately, the Scipii are down to one town and the entire Brutii army is sleeping with the fishes heheheh. I'm likely to return their polite gesture and make a visit to Croton before they decide to honor my guys again with their presence.

    Corduba is pumping out horses and I'll probably make a move against Carthago Nova as soon as I have a decent number. Round shields are bad, but even bad cavalry has a really good use: make a nice phat snowball out of them and start rolling it down from the enemy flank, along their line. Not even romans can take that, so those spaniard peasants can only be swept by the tide.

  2. #692
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I'm alive and back from my journey but still a bit reluctant to continue the campaign. The main reason being that I need to go up against the romans just with round shields.

    Just to make a brief overview of the situation, I have added to the initial empire the entirety of Sicilly, Cirta and have lost only Caralis to the Julii. The plan is to make a round-shield avalanche simultaneously into Italy, Spain and Africa. Then, depending on the situation, either I chase the Brutii into Greece, or if it's not the case I move against Egypt and conquer the East until I get the number of provinces required to win.

    I'll also post the ideal end-game army:

    8 units of poeni infantry, 4 of them in each wing

    4 units of sacred band in the core

    1 general + 2 kataellies in the left wing

    5 units of sacred band cav in the right wing

    Until that point, it will be a mix of round & large shield cav and whatever ellies I can gather. Infantry just the minimum to man some rams. There's no way I can assault stone walls until I get Sacred Band phalanx.

  3. #693
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I'll also post the ideal end-game army
    A couple of mine:

    The old vets...http://s990.photobucket.com/user/aus...e02-1.jpg.html

    The up-and-coming vets...http://s990.photobucket.com/user/aus...e01-1.jpg.html
    High Plains Drifter

  4. #694
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Badass armies.

    I decided to take the bull by the horns, and steamrolled into Italy. Croton, Tarentum and Capua fell in quick succession, thus vanquishing the Brutii and the Scipii. The Scipii sent an army over in Sicily which I easily mopped with my cav, and the brunt of the Brutii force was somewhere across the seas when their last general died, so I faced little to no resistance in taking these cities. Because the Julii have been such a pain in the butt (they took Palma as well, killing the governor ), I moved my army around Latium and assaulted Ariminum. They actually had a sizable reinforcement there, but my horses got to the top of a hill and just made a downhill charge right into them. Took at most 3 casualties in a few units, and annihilated them. In Arretium they have triarii though, so I don't feel like charging into that city just yet. Also, I hope my maneuver wasn't too daring, because the senate has a huge army and may come out for me. However, I think that if I'm careful I can break them one unit at a time, by luring them out of formation and swarming with cav. In the meantime I also landed a huge force in Caralis, which is now under siege.

    In Africa things didn't go so hot. I took Lepcis Magna and managed to conquer Dimmidi, but it is fairly useless. I will leave a small garrison behind, move back into Cirta to retrain and push west into Tingi. Haven't moved in Spain yet, but Corduba is well defended.

    Overall, it's a difficult game, and I still feel it could go terribly wrong unless I'm really careful. I still rely exclusively on roundshield cav, and will probably do so for a while (not making the same mistake as with the seleucids again, I'm building economy, economy and even more economy).

  5. #695
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Well, it's winter 260 BC and I own all of the original roman provinces save for Rome herself. The Julii are still alive though, Baal knows why since I've slaughtered 5 of their generals in a single turn. Bomilkar, now 23 years old showed absolutely no talents whatsoever in any respect when he came of age, but now he's become pretty much a wargod after conquering the entirety of Italy just with roundshield cavalry and a unit of (angry angry) elephants. Hope he can handle the SPQR.

  6. #696
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Ah, Baal pe praised, it's the winter of 258 BC, and the romans are history. Those dumb senators moved their whole army towards Capua, leaving Rome under the care of a few fat politicians, some of them stationed on the bridge over the Tiber. I made a forced draw-out and showed them Carthaginian horsemanship. Then all I had to do was mop-up a huge rebel stack. One year later, I found Flavius Julius hiding in that dirt hole of Segesta, and that's that. Now I want to transform the western med in Lacus Poeni, and then I'll move towards Egypt.

    I won't mess with the greeks because it's the only chance they get to do something without getting destroyed by the romans. I wonder who will dominate the balkans.

    Also, I think Bomilkar has earned the title of faction heir. This kid (he's 25 now) pretty much Hannibal'd the romans by himself.

  7. #697
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    So, what I thought my Carthage campaign was going to be like: heavy phalanx with awesome mohawk helmets and armored elephants trudging through the deserts through waves beyond waves of the pharaoh's minions.

    What my Carthage campaign is actually like: ladle-wielding mule-riding peasants slaughtering lice-infested barbarians in some european mudholes nobody cares about.

    I have only one of the original galic provinces left to occupy, the northernmost one. The bastards will survive though since they have another town over the Alps and some territories towards the Balkans, but the greeks will probably obliterate them. They have a huge numerical advantage in the city I'm sieging now and will probably sally out but I think I can destroy them with ease. Then it will be time to turn east, occupy Samarobriva and then jump the moat onto the Isles. Having went so far, I'll probably go ahead and try to make the western Atlantic and North Sea carthaginian lakes as well, but I'm not sure how deep I want to enter the german forests since I still rely exclusively on round-shields (with an elephant unit to break walls) and they are at a big disadvantage when not in the open.

  8. #698
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    What my Carthage campaign is actually like: ladle-wielding mule-riding peasants slaughtering lice-infested barbarians in some european mudholes nobody cares about.
    The Emperor's war advisers should probably be keel-hauled before being drawn and quartered for suggesting such a campaign path
    High Plains Drifter

  9. #699
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Well, to be fair there was no way I would have invaded Egypt with just the said mule-riders and heavy stuff is still some turns away from full-blown production even now (about 235 BC). At the same time, the Gauls and especially the Brits (those annoying wagons) would have been a HUGE nuissance if they started bashing hordes beyond hordes against the Pyrenees and Alps, with nothing but mule-riders to hold them back (it's fun defeating doomstacks of fanatical infantry with just 8 units of roundshields, but gets old after a while). So, while building the infrastructure for heavy stuff in the south I decided to pacify them and it's almost done. I chased the brits off of the mainland but I probably won't bother after all with the islands. If I get lucky, their last general will die in some landing (the roman AI pulled that on them once, they died while still having 3 cities). The Germans, Dacians and Scythians are all small and bickering among each other anyway. It's the Gauls and Brits that tend to get fat and annoying.

  10. #700

    Default Re: Carthage

    That is a great strategy Wooly. I tried it myself and worked like a charm.

  11. #701
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    That is a great strategy Wooly. I tried it myself and worked like a charm.
    I suppose it is if you like tramping through mosquito-infested forests chasing half crazy wildmen with little to show for it
    High Plains Drifter

  12. #702
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Meh, my plans always change by the moment.

    I invaded the british isles since I had nothing better to do and no use sitting around while building up, right? Londinium was actually fiercely defended by a LOT of swords (including chosen ones), many chariots, some spears, hounds and slingers. And the defending general was some celticgibberish the Mad. How awesome can things get? I didn't bring any regular cavalry this time, but had a great number of generals and a small force made of iberians, lybian spearmen and a few barbarian mercs.

    When they sallied forth I found myself on a steep incline so things looked pretty taffed right from the get-go, so I placed my lybian spears in between the battering rams to prevent them from being swept right off their feet when that horde came charging down, and had the iberians and mercs in two columns behind the furthest rams in case some smartass tried to flank. The lybians lasted surprisingly well and I managed to swing my generals around and hammer the crap out of those barbarians before the chariots got deployed. When the wagons did come, I could only sit there and take their fire until they tired out, and then I ordered my fresh barbarian mercs to run after them. No more wagons yey. Celticgibberish the Mad died to a unit of lybian spearsmen and the rest was mop-up.

    Now, the Carthaginians made it all the way to the end of the world, to the lonesome and depressive Hibernia. Man this place sucks. I need only 11 provinces to win at this and I've decided Egypt is too far away to be worth bothering anymore. My infrastructure is ready, so I will start to produce heavy armies and invade the Balkans. I've got the germans well contained, but they do seriously creep me out. They assault my forts with those crazy women.

  13. #703
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I've decided Egypt is too far away to be worth bothering anymore
    ~:>
    High Plains Drifter

  14. #704
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    But the greeks turn out to still be living in mudholes in 220 BC They barely have tier 3 barracks around. I will sail with two armies out of Sicily. I'll drop some spies around Sparta and if they have a decent infrastructure by then, I'll throw anchor there. Otherwise I'll go down the Nile after all. The other option would be to finish the game by conquering barbarian ratholes with roundshields, but that would just be sad.

  15. #705
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I'll drop some spies around Sparta and if they have a decent infrastructure by then
    Sparta will have a large Temple of Nike, which will allow you to train units with two bronze exp chevrons
    High Plains Drifter

  16. #706
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I never keep foreign temples around anyway . Only the conqueror's gods allowed. With Carthage I went full Baal, excepting a few dirtholes in the middle of nowhere for which I chose Tanit (still didn't make much difference; without population transfer some places just take forever to grow, low taxes included). Not only is it good militarywise (Sacred Band phalanx) but I think it's better for the overall economy than Milquart. Law obliterates corruption (I lose under 10k to corruption, with dockyards and grand bazaars sprawling everywhere), keeps the population happy, gives nice traits and ancillaries to the guys in charge.

  17. #707
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    I never keep foreign temples around anyway . Only the conqueror's gods allowed.
    Depends.

    On which faction you are playing. As a barbarian faction, most Roman temples will be better than what you have. The Macedonian Temple of Zeus is the best Law & Order Temple in the game. The Egyptian Temple of Horus at Temple City level (and combined with a Forge) will upgrade heavy/light/missile weapons to gold status. The Gallic Temple of Abnoba and the Macedonian Temple of Artemis both upgrade missile weapons at lvl 3 to gold status. The Gallic Temple of Epona at lvl 3 can be upgraded by Romans to raise units with two silver chevrons of exp.

    You might want to reconsider your opinion
    High Plains Drifter

  18. #708
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Nah, the gods of my faction are always better. Anyway, greek temples will do for now, until I get some decent barracks up in Sparta and Corinth. I need to ferry extra infantry from my other provinces to fill up the loses until then.

    Also added Kydonia to my collection. Need 8 more regions and it's a wrap up. I'll send an army over the Rhodes and at the same time dig my way through the Balkans until I'm short of one city. Then I'll probably be cheap and take one more germanic city up north that's within striking distance of a big cavalry force and some elephants. The only event that could get things exciting at this point would be for the Pharaoh to suddenly march out of Lybia.

    By the way, random question. Does Etna erupt again at around 220 BC? I always hear weird noises around Sicily at that time, but never see anything (either as an event icon on the beginning of the turn or any special animation). This time three (old & useless thankfully) generals died "by the will of god", Messina got it's population halved and most of the militia garrisons and fleets where obliterated. Spooky.

  19. #709
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Nah, the gods of my faction are always better.
    Play Thrace or Parthia....

    I find it hard to believe you'd pass up the opportunity, as the Julii, to find a Temple of Epona which, when upgraded (and a Roman faction can) produces units with +5 experience

    What I look at is whether the existing temple is better (ie. gives me upgrades I can't get from my own temples, or has better Law & Order numbers than anything I can build, or confers particularly good traits to family members). If I can answer yes to any of those questions, I keep the existing temple.

    Does Etna erupt again at around 220 BC?
    Etna erupts in 261BC...Vesuvius in 171BC. You can check the timing of events in this game folder: "Data/World/Maps/Campaign/Imperial Campaign/descrip_events".
    High Plains Drifter

  20. #710
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Play Thrace or Parthia....
    I checked them up in the compendium of temples on the archive and they are both awesome. Parthia has a killer law temple that combined with execution square tree will eradicate corruption (nothing makes me more angry angry that to see greedy hands spiriting my precious denarii away). Thracians have an insane war temple (+4 morale for all troops?!) and a temple of happiness which at least keeps your subjects drunk and happy. Thracian generals should all be bloodthirsty maniacs anyway so no need to keep them in town to get drunk & lazy.

    Thanks for the Epona tip, I read up and had no idea the romans could do that, but I still like my basic roman temples more heh.

  21. #711
    the angry, angry elephantid Member wooly_mammoth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Hannibal'd

    This game always gets a bit boring and tedious when you are very close to the end (<5 provinces to conquer), but the epilogue always makes up for it. I love the little cutscenes with the story of the aftermath and brilliant music.

    So, in my final act I conquered the greeks up to and including Bylazora. Those armored hoplites are tough as hobnails. They repeatedly made minced meat out of my poeni infantry. My guys could barely hold the line until my cavalry got ready for rear charges (lack of competent cavalry is the only downside of the greeks). Sacred Band infantry was the only match for their hoplites. Good thing they never fielded spartans. Sadly, I never got to use armored elephants or sacred band cav, but war elephants where a regular presence in my armies (but not so useful against phalanx factions; a spear wall instakills them). The last three provinces where dirtholes within striking distance of my armies which I took in one final sweep.

    Now it is time to go horse. See you in Parthia!

    Honorable mention: my dacian ancestors outdid themselves. The dacian kingdom stretched from the shores of the Black Sea up to the dark springs of the Danube river. Burebista would be proud.

  22. #712

    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by Inuyasha12 View Post
    Start off playing as carthage like any other faction right? No problem.. WRONG!!
    The numidians will attack you, the spanish, the julii, and to top it all off the scipii alomst at the very begining.

    You can't play carthage like any other faction. Its just impossible to win.First youre going to have to abandon two cities, thats right two cities.Get all of your units in corduba and in caralais and ship them to lylibaeum. Destroy all possible building there as well. Good thing is corduba will be captured by the spanish and it will rebel against them in your side, so you'll have corduba sometimes and sometimes you wont. Next take the rebel town of lepcis magna, it only takes a couple of troops and its key to this plan!! Then get some units from carthage and thapsus and ship them to lylibaeum too. Your goal now is to hold lylibaeum at all costs. If you loose the war in sicily your dead! Elephants are key, so have at least one unit of them in your armies, beleive me it can make the difference. Once you've destroyed the invading vanguard of the scipii, head over to syracuse(wich most likely has rebelled against either the scipii or the greeks by now) And take it. Don't concentrate on your navy as long as you still have a city in sicily the romans won't try to invade you in africa. All you have to do is win the war in sicily, after that the scipii are bankrupt. If the numidians attak you don't panic, they send small armies that are easy to kill. After that i recomend to keep attacking rome, it will make you rich, very rich.
    You can now rebuild your navy, and begin conquering by sea. Thats carthage's power, her navy. USE IT!
    if you want to kill romans easily,use as many long shield cavalry as possible.RICH huh!,i find out the spoils of war of this game is the population to be enslave(coz they can be your tax payer,and the supply of your new troops),not the treasure of the faction....why we cannot capture the treasure of enemy since they save at least 100k of denarii...
    Last edited by guineawolf; 07-25-2015 at 17:34.
    In all warfare,speed is the key!

  23. #713
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    So I started a Carthage campaign, M/M. Very interesting. Some notes: elephants are awesome, Iberian Infantry are not. Julii took Caralis quickly, I did not have the units capable of defending it. Scipii are history. I have taken Croton, Tarentum, Capua, and Rome, as well as all of Sicily. Balearic Slingers were instrumental in several defenses of Palma. Sent a small army (4 II, one RSC) toward weakly-defended Caralis, but the ship they were on was sunk in one attack. They weren't part of a good army, so I was not too bothered by it. I will just do it again.

    Corduba kicked me out, and vanquished my army. Gaul (neutral) now has it, after wiping out Spain, who had been allied with me. Numidia is annoying, but that's about it. Thrace wiped out Macedon, Dacia, and Scythia, and Seleucia is gone as well. Greece is the dominant power in the Balkans right now, as Brutii left armies on Sicily instead of using them to attack the Greeks (those armies are still in Sicily, have not yet bothered to wipe them out).

    Poeni Infantry are not bad, it seems their spear wall is not as dense as a hoplite spear wall. I like Libyan Spearmen. I mainly use Iberian Infantry to deal with enemy spearmen due to the spear penalty versus other infantry (main application right now is against Desert Infantry or Numidian Javelinmen). On the walls especially, they are OK in that role.

    Defeated a Brutii/Scipii attack, where odds were 3:1 against me. I can thank my Elephants for that, I really think they swung the battle in my favour. They are just regular elephants. I can't afford the good ones right now. I will not even field elephants against Greece, I don't think. I am on good terms with Greece right now, but that will eventually change.
    Last edited by Vincent Butler; 11-01-2017 at 21:07.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  24. #714
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    elephants are awesome, Iberian Infantry are not
    Yep

    And being a phalanx man, you're going to enjoy the hell out of Sacred Band

    And with easy access to Baeleric Slingers, I'm surprised you didn't do Carthage sooner
    High Plains Drifter

  25. #715
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    Yep

    And being a phalanx man, you're going to enjoy the hell out of Sacred Band

    And with easy access to Baeleric Slingers, I'm surprised you didn't do Carthage sooner
    My only problem with Sacred Band is they require an Awesome Temple of Baal. I don't typically use units that require a special temple, especially as campaign units, because of the difficulty in retraining them. That said, a phalanx unit with the stats of Praetorian Cohort...

    Similar problem with mercenaries and elephants, unless you want to keep a train of them coming most merc units are only available in certain areas of the map, ditto for elephants. Merc Hoplites and Peltasts are available in many more places, and the Merc Warband are also available in a large area, but outside of them, hard to keep mercs and ellies up to strength.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  26. #716
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    My only problem with Sacred Band is they require an Awesome Temple of Baal
    You're going to be using the Temple of Baal a lot anyway as it's the best L & O temple available to Carthage

    unless you want to keep a train of them coming
    Which is not that difficult to do. In my Armenian campaigns, when fighting the Romans far out in the Libyan Desert, I keep a fleet waiting offshore with replacements for my Cats, and a series of forts along the way for my Arab Cavalry. Much the same can be done with Ellies or mercs....
    High Plains Drifter

  27. #717
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    You're going to be using the Temple of Baal a lot anyway as it's the best L & O temple available to Carthage



    Which is not that difficult to do. In my Armenian campaigns, when fighting the Romans far out in the Libyan Desert, I keep a fleet waiting offshore with replacements for my Cats, and a series of forts along the way for my Arab Cavalry. Much the same can be done with Ellies or mercs....
    So...I should have built a navy before invading Italy. My finances are horrible because Numidia and Rome keep blockading my ports and I don't have the navies to deal with them. Numidia even had a quinquireme. I took Ariminum (I think, I always get that and Arretium confused, I took the one to the east). I am focusing more on navies before I advance farther, so that I can defend my ports. When you have five of your twelve ports blockaded at one time, it really hurts your finances.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  28. #718
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    So...I should have built a navy before invading Italy. My finances are horrible because Numidia and Rome keep blockading my ports and I don't have the navies to deal with them
    I have, on occasion, adopted a "navy first" strategy with Carthage. I take Hanno's army, combine it with the Lilybaeum garrison...and abandon Sicily...for the time being

    I defend Caralis, and neutralize the Numidians by taking their capital. Carthage pumps out triremes (which few other factions have, early on), and anything Roman is sent to the bottom of the Med. Keeping Caralis is key to sea trade once Cirta goes, Lepcis Magna is occupied, and a port built on Palma. A big navy keeps the Scipii from landing anything in Africa until I can build up an army to invade Sicily on my terms.

    Corduba simply stays on the defensive against the Spaniards and Gaul until Tingi is taken. Then an army is sent to Iberia to wipe out Spain, and kick Gaul back across the Pyrenees where it's easy to defend the whole of Iberia until I've taken a big bite out of the Romans.

    I've done it the "traditional" way by booting the Scipii and the Greeks off of Sicily, but I have had similar problems to what you are experiencing, particularly from the Numidians. Better to safeguard your rear before taking on the Romans, IMHO
    High Plains Drifter

  29. #719
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: Carthage

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    I've done it the "traditional" way by booting the Scipii and the Greeks off of Sicily, but I have had similar problems to what you are experiencing, particularly from the Numidians. Better to safeguard your rear before taking on the Romans, IMHO
    Yeah, let them beat their heads against Carthage. Make sure that is defended while wiping out Numidia. It seems logical to take Rome out quickly, but looks like that is not necessarily the best option. Or at the very least, if you choose to take Sicily, build a navy before attacking Italy.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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