Parthia

[pezhetairoi]

My, imagine a tour to France to see the historic city of Pompeii... >.<

[SpawnOfEbil]

How on earth do you kill those &$E^%I%^ chariots?!?

They are ^£%*$£&^"$ impossible to kill with HAs.

[pezhetairoi]

...arrows. Lots of them. And eastern infantry stacked really deep. You have HA, dammit! Stay away from contact since their scythes are nuts! Just shoot them to pieces... You don't have a choice, unless you happen to have a coupla cat units you can afford to lose...

2 ways with cav. With HA, engage them in a longrange fire battle. With shock cav, swarm them. Since you obviously don't want to sacrifice your cats to their 12 armour-piercing attack (12 ap > 9 ap, I hardly need tell you) don't use the second method.

1 way with inf. Beef up your slinger and peltast corps, spam a few useless EI units as fodder. Form up the EI deep, use your HA to attract the chariots to move close while getting behind the chariots, charge your EI, (or better if the chariots charge you) and then let your slingers and peltasts do the nasty work. Slingers are deadly accurate, can fire faster, and their attacks for some reason seem to have good effect on chariots, and peltasts have a bonus against chariotry. So.

One more thing which may be of use for you to know, and for you to make sense of: Chariots can run amok like elephants. Yeah.

[SpawnOfEbil]

Ah, so infantry are actually useful at times?

I've gotten into the habit of not building anything apart from HAs, so might want to upgrade.

[Deus ret.]

I've gotten into the habit of not building anything apart from HAs, so might want to upgrade.

In Parthia's case, downgrade might be a more suitable expression considering your choice of infantry
Anyway, you can do it any way pez said plus another one: hold the line with your EI as described above and set your archers to flaming ammo. They will not cause terrible losses but the chariots are likely to run amok pretty soon, just as elephants.
One last note: Be aware of panicking chariots. Since they're routing, your cav will ignore them even with skirmish turned on --- so if they reach your cav, prepare for a carnage. Better watch them and take them out asap, or let them rout off the battlefield. Better still if they rout through your enemy's lines as most rtw generals are mounted. If you can cause a mass chariot rout, the enemy is more or less finished.

[pezhetairoi]

ah but note, deus, that Parthia has no archers. So archers on flaming ammo for Parthia is not practical. Only massed HA fire have a chance.

[Deus ret.]

?? really ? .... [looking up]....

[Deus ret.]

... dammit you're right! I entirely forgot about that. It's too long past that I played this faction ....and lost to Egypt btw. Well, it was my second campaign...
thanks anyway & cheers!

[Dead Knight of the Living]

Parthia has archers in RTR 5.4. I'm using them to flame some elephants. I don't know about RTW 1.2 or any other mods. I keep archers in my garrisons most of the time. But I bring one in my field armies because the Eggies are picking up merc elephants. I use the archers just for them.

By the way. Egypt is as good as finished. I have Antioch, Dumatha, Haftra (I think), I razed Damascus, am about to raze Sidon. I have plenty of men and they have no prayer of defeating me. I took Rhodes and my trade income is much more phat. I've finally gotten to the point where I have to figure out ways to spend money rather than struggling to earn money.

I've gotten quite a few kataphract units and they spank anything the eggies throw at me.

Now I'm busy squashing rebellions. I don't know if it's an RTR trait, but the rebels are all over the place in my empire. I have two small armies dedicated exclusively to rebel crushing.

ANd in another couple turns I'll have the biggest navy around.

[Deus ret.]

Dead Knight,
I bow before you. Thrashing the hell out of Egypt with the Parthians is what I have dreamt of since they ruined one of my earliest campaigns
You truly deserve a place at Zoroastra's side.

And no, the rebels are not a special RTR nuisance. It seems to depend on the campaign map difficulty setting, among others. If you have too much money, keep on bribing them and your exchequer will soon be relieved....

[pezhetairoi]

Wonderful work, dead knight... I'm about 10-20 turns away from starting to work on Egypt as Armenia. Hopefully their chariots aren't too much of a trouble. The Pontic ones didn't even touch me once before dying, and the Seleucid ones ran amok the instant my cataphracts made contact having been put under incessant arrow fire for goodness knows how long before that.

[Dead Knight of the Living]

I feel I've been more lucky than not. The Egyptian armies I'm facing are full of phalanx, native auxilia, and Armoured Bowmen, with a general and usually one light native cav and 1 Cleuruch heavy cav unit. I've only faced chariots when I fought the Seleucids in the beginning of my campaign. They were quite a problem though I overwhelmed them with my HA's. I took a lot more casualties in those battles though.

The battles I have lost to the Eggies were when they grew enough brains to stack their units with archers. In those cases I end up having to withdraw and retrain. By that time they have divided their army up and I take them out one at a time.

I don't know why they haven't built chariots in this campaign, but if they'd have built them in sufficient numbers my story would be very different. I've crushed these phalanx armies with like only 6 or so HA or Persian Cav units. Phalanx is no match for HA.

Also, I seem to remember Egyptian generals being in chariots. In RTR 5.4 they are regular heavy cav. So, I think that's worked in my favor.

[pezhetairoi]

Well, in RTW Egyptian generals are first in chariots then they are heavy cav after upgrading. But I think chariotry are the better choice for Egyptians. I have a thing for their scythes.

My Eggies so far as Armenia don't seem to have much of a thing going for egyptian chariots which was their fetish when I was Macedon...

[Silver Rusher]

I haven't been bothered to read through this thread and see if someone has pointed this out already, but you DO NOT need infantry (vanilla parthian infantry is pathetic) or elephants for a siege. You don't even need siege equipment. When assaulting a huge city with full walls, you can stroll in and dominate if you simply send a full subterfuge spy ahead of your army (they aren't hard to get if you have been using this strategy throughout your campaign). So then you can just march in your HAs and cut down the town's garrisson with a shower of arrows.

[pezhetairoi]

Ya, but the thing is not all of us use spies THAT much, and it's useful to carry infantry along as a siege train so you have a garrison once the city is taken. And what will you do at the beginning before you get full-subterfuge spies, may I ask?

[Silver Rusher]

I think you start off with a spy in the Parthian campaign, (I play on Mundus Magnus, but I can't remember how it is in vanilla) so if you use him on some weak rebel provinces and stuff like that he gets his stars. You only need super subterfuge ones on big cities you know.

[pezhetairoi]

mmm... I see your point. But it seems a little un-warlike to me :) But, hey, this coming from the guy who uses diplomats more than his armies, maybe you should take what I say with a pinch of salt. :) In other news, I just built my first assassin EVER in 8 campaigns.

[Comtempt]

I love these guys. I managed to basically humble Eygpt by taking over Sidon, Jerusalem, and Alexandia with a 6 Horse Archer army, with two regular mercs and my general. Granted, my General has 9 Valour and 10 command stars, but, I still managed to kill two 1500 armies they sent at me, then conquer and destory their cities. My Generals stats, just from fighting the Eygptians, are:

Legendary Commander
Great Defender
Cruelly Scarred
Chancer
Cavarly Commander of Genius
Heroic Attacker
Utterly Fearless
Conquering Hero

And he's only 33!

[pezhetairoi]

I hate Egypt. Officially. I'm playing Armenia and Egypt is THROWING chariotry at me. AUGH. But I have two mighty generals now in Egypt and they're doing nicely, with 10 command (by actual count, nearly 15) 5 management and 8 influence. Beautiful. And Egyptian academies are helping very much.

[Slicendice]

I have had a different experience with Parthia. I don't bother waiting to build up the economy I just attack simply because I kept going broke even with just a few troops being built. Take Seleucia on the first or second turn and then move the the next Seleucian city. Once there hold the bridge until you get sufficient troop upgrades to take Antioch.

Above Seleucia move your army west to take the rebel city and don't bother making alliance with Armenia because they won't keep it. Move into their territory with what you have and destroy them. When you get to the sea concentrate on trade and replenish your troops. Then move to Pontus. Take their main seaport because it is their main troop production city as well. This will give you Persian Cavalry and another valuable trade route to the rest of the world.

Meanwhile in the far north you should be wiping out scythia. If you move quickly with only horse units you can reach some of their cities before they build walls. If not have infantry bring up the rear. Build lots of watchtowers away from the roads along the way and you can pick your fights. Once you reach the river at Dacia and Thrace put forts on your side of the bridges and it tends to keep the enemy out of you area.

I got to Pontus, destroyed Scythia, and reached Antioch at the same time. For fun I engaged that little hidden barbarian city with the Amazon Chariots. (had never done it before) and I finished off Seleucia from two sides.

EGYPT: Egypt is a paper tiger and i don't care what anyone says. They are easy to destroy because they do not invest in a navy. I build a navy and with Elephants, Mercenary hoplites, and lots of archer/horse archer units I attack each of Egypts coastal cities. I can attack in one turn, destroy the defenders, then move all my troops out of the city and back to the boats except for my general. I then give the city back to Egypt or some faction I'm at war with and then capture the city again. Each time I enslave the population and increase the population of my good cities. Until I can take the pyramids it is going to be too hard to hang on to Egyptian cities. I also destroy all the improvements I can in the city. Then either give the city back to Egypt to prevent them from getting an instant rebellion army or I can give the city to the Roman Senate. I have never seen a city rebel from the Roman Senate EVER nor have I ever seen a faction take a city from the Roman Senate.
Move along the coast and repeat until Egypts major coastal cities have been reduced to 400 each and their ports, and trade, and troop production is devastated. Now you can move in-land and not face as many troops. Take the Pyramids first it makes life a lot easier.

Sigh I wish I could destroy the walls like the Greeks did to Troy.

By now you have taken enough cities that have advance troop buildings in place and you can rebuild your armies and prepare to move west.

[pezhetairoi]

Hey slicendice, it's not true that Egypt doesn't invest in a navy. It does. Problem is, you didn't give it time to :) Actually, Egypt's navy is mostly in the Red Sea, for reasons best known to Pharaoh...

I like to capture Egypt's cities whole and keep them. It's tough with Egypt if you are katanking. You tend to lose a lot of 'energy' quickly. It would certainly make life easier if you attacked both ends of the Empire at once to prevent them from responding concentratedly.

As to Egypt being a paper tiger, well.... That view bears some merit, but the confidence of that statement suggests you've never faced 3-heavy chariot 2 chariot archers 2-general 4 desert axemen 4 nile spearmen 5 bowmen armies before... o_O

[Skott]

The Egyptian navy is quite strong given enough time for them to develope it. One of the strongest in the game in fact. The weakness is that the AI doesnt use the fleet properly. If it did you'd find it quite challenging but, alas, the AI isnt very smart in sea battle tactics.

Also in the RtR 5.4.1 mod they put elephants into the Egyptian tech tree. This makes them a little tougher on land.

[Agent Miles]

Slice, what you are doing to the Egyptians is what we call exploiting the AI. It's like occassionally gifting all your settlements to your enemy and then exterminating them for profit. Try conquering Egypt without your trick.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Guide tactics which exploit "loopholes" in the AI do not seem rare.

Has any Modder taken on the AI itself? Is it even accessible?

[pezhetairoi]

I think the consensus is that the AI is incorrigible and unmoddable. We've all given up on the recalcitrantly bad generals on the -other- side.

[gardibolt]

I've been dealing with numerous Egyptian full stacks of ships at sea, which are a serious pain, so I don't understand the comment about them not building a navy. Mileages may vary, I guess. I have the same experience with the Thracians, and even after wiping them out as a faction, the naval stacks are still there, just turned Rebel and they still have to be dealt with.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Can you bribe fleets? Rebel/pirate should be easier.....

[pezhetairoi]

*shakes head* you cannot bribe fleets. Not unless your diplomat is Jesus and can walk on water.

[yogol]

Just finished a very hard / very hard long campaign with Partia and decided to share some thoughts, like the "Yogol's thoughts on ..." that perhaps some of you know from Shogun and MTW.

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There are two decisions to make in the beginning with Parthia :

1. Attack Selucia or Armenia ?
2. How to handle the economy ?

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1. I decided to go for Armenia. The reason was that if you go for Selucia, you'll get in contact with the dreadful Egypts very soon and they are STRONG when you don't have you Kataprhacts yet.

So I conquered Armenia : I took the rebel city west of my capital and grouped ALL troops (from the far north with a boat and from the far south by foot) there. Then I took the two Armenian cities.

After that I took Pont. Then that-faction-who-is-so-small-I-don't-even-remember-their-name. Then I threw the Greek out of the Eastern parts (made peace with them afterwards, no need to take their cities in Greece itself). Only THEN I went after Selucia : their cities fell fast.

Then I was ready for the Egypts : they didn't get have a chance against my Kataphract-stacks, you're south of Gibaltrar before you know it, wondering why you didn't bring ships with you !

I managed to get GOLDEN kataphracts : +2 forge and an egyptian building that gave +1 to armor and weapons. I retrained all my Kataprhacts there and then just took whatever region I wanted to take untill 50.

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2. At the start the economy was terrible. Instead of trying to fix it, I decided to make it even worse and get all troops out of it that I could take : I sold all buildings that I didn't need and used ALL the money I had for horse archers (and one single road at my capital to move the troops from the south quicker). You'll go in debt VERY fast and deep (like minus 8000 after a few turns), but with a few city captures and looting it will get positive again. This way you got the most troops for your money.

Forget about building up your starting cities : once you take the Greek cities at the west of your little empire, move your capital. You'll get more money then you can spend (as in 20k per turn) this way AND you got bigger cities then your starting cities will ever get.

When you take the Egyptian cities, you should get 50k each turn. If you can't win the game with that much money, you should go play Tetris or Pong.

Once you go above 50k money in your treasury, you can remove ALL governers and make peasant garrisons instead, because those governers will cost ALOT ALOT of money once they get those money-spending traits :-(

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Some remarks...

a) Until now I usually let the computer resolve the battles but I noticed that with the horse archers you lose ALOT of them. So I played the battles "myself" : just run the archers to their enemy and go eat a sandwich, clean your desk or read a good book (I recommend the latest Harry Potter). Every once in a while the archers get into trouble, but that's an exception.

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b) Once you can make Kataphracts, don't make anything else, these troops will kill everything. E-VER-Y-THING. They are amazing, even if I don't have a clue how to spell their name :-)

Another benefit on these is that you can let the computer do the battles again, even he can win with these troops.

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c) A nice bonus of going west fast are the three wonders there, they make some happy citizens !

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d) After each battle, I merged the troops I could without losing units : if I got a stack of 20 I merged them so I got (for example) 16 at full strength and 4 at 1 or 2 soldiers. Those 4 units I retrained somewhere.

This way you can fight several fights in one turn, as long as your general doesn't get too few boduguards (somehow the AI always loses bodyguards in each fight, I don't know how he manages it).

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e) I'm still unsure what's best to take a city : use one troop of peasants and make use that tunnel-thingy or take one catapult with me in my army. I don't know, shrugh.

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Hope you find this useful (if anyone reads this board, it seems dead to me).

[Seamus Fermanagh]

In English it's spelled:

c-a-t-a-p-h-r-a-c-t

Latin and Greek (other?) spellings exist, and the EB folks and others will have it spelled properly in their mods.


With a largely mounted army such as Parthia fields, it may be a good idea to have a separate half-stack army or two for siege work, letting your HA concentrate on field battles. Siege weaps and cheap infantry slow your main body if you mix. Parthia may use combined arms tactics, but is one of the few factions where keeping theelements separate may be the best choice.

The siege army should have infantry for sapping/rams etc.
The siege army should have a pair of onagers.
The siege army should have 1 or 2 cav units as flankers.

SF