Parthia

[Barbarossa1221]

I'm having serious problems as parthia right now, Ive got loads of cash around 40,000 and up. But scythia decided to declare war on me so now im stuck in these endless plains vs horse archers! every battle is more and more draining its basically my HA vs theirs.
Any tips on trying to beat these nomadic jerks?

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm having serious problems as parthia right now, Ive got loads of cash around 40,000 and up. But scythia decided to declare war on me so now im stuck in these endless plains vs horse archers! every battle is more and more draining its basically my HA vs theirs.
Any tips on trying to beat these nomadic jerks?

How about don't.

Seriously, what are they going to do, conquer one of your well built cities with their mix of troops? Set up a couple of choke points with good infantry and rental hoplites and let them kill themselves while you go elsewhere for shorter distances and greater profit.

If you absolutely must attack, then try sending an infantry heavy siege army out for their cities. Protect it with a couple of half-stacks of cavalry flankers to keep it from being hassled. Once their cities are gone, its over.

[GeneralHankerchief]

In the words of Vizzini from The Princess Bride, you fell victim to one of the classic blunders:

Never get involved in a land war in Asia. More specifically, Russia.

It's just not worth it enough to spend your time and money on troops for ridiculously poor cities that take years to get to. Seamus talked about some good tactics, but I would also resort to bribery. I've bribed more Scythian generals than any other faction in my RTW career, and you can even take cities fairly cheaply since they're all so poor. Send a good diplomat to the Steppes, have him work his magic, and Scythia will be done.

[Ludens]

In the words of Vizzini from The Princess Bride, you fell victim to one of the classic blunders:

Never get involved in a land war in Asia. More specifically, Russia.

I think it was Montegommery. The actual quote went something like this: "Rule One on page one of the Book of War is: Never March on Moscow. Rule Two is: Never Fight with your Land Armies in China". It should be noted however, that the Mongols broke both these rules and got away with it.

That said, I agree completely with your analysis.

[Piko]

Well, playing RTR this is certainly not the case.

[AndyNgFL]

I'm having serious problems as parthia right now, Ive got loads of cash around 40,000 and up. But scythia decided to declare war on me so now im stuck in these endless plains vs horse archers! every battle is more and more draining its basically my HA vs theirs.
Any tips on trying to beat these nomadic jerks?

1) Use Diplomacy
Its not worth waging war with Scythia as some of the experts here have said.
They have generally better HAs than Parthia. Thier cities are not worth the plunder. Thier cities and land is too vast to attack and defend.

2) Occupy Strategic Positions (Defensive)
If Diplomacy fails, occupy strategic positions e.g Briges, Mines, Roads, Forests(Ambush)
They are forced to attack you.

Battle Tactic :
Form Double Lines of HAs in loose formation. As they come for you, 1st line retreat behind the 2nd line. As they come nearer, 2nd line retreat behind 1st line. Repeat.
If any unit charge into your double line formation, they will find themselves surrounded by your HAs, press "C" for close formation, "S" for turing skirmish off, "A" for turning Fire At Will off, and CHARGE. Once the unit is routed or dead, return to Double line loose formation, skirmish mode and auto fire on.

Generally Scythian HAs are better than Parthia's HAs, you'll suffer more casualties, be prepared to pump out more HAs than you lose from your far away cities to replace fallen HAs. Press PAUSE in battle, take a look at thier stats.

3) Take ALL thier cities
Recruit mercenary Infantry for seige battles only. Else, your army comprises only of mobile units in the vast land of Scythia. Are you prepared to waste at least 10 game years, army maintainence, and WatchTowers built around your new conquered land?

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

I need some help with my Parthian campaign

ok so money is going good and ive been taking pontic and armenian provinces. but now the Egyptians, who i have been allied for 20 years decided to attack Arabia. the problem is im funding a campaign in Asia while funding one in Egypt and its been costly for troops and money. Should I abandon my Asian conquest to reinforce my men at Egypt?

[Craterus]

That's wiser in the long-term because Egypt will be a bigger problem later on. Don't just abandon your campaign in Asia Minor, make sure your conquered provinces are safe and well-garrisoned.

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

thx Craterus ive already gotten an army of 3000 troops to attack egypt. asia is falling easily and wont be a problem. thx to my persian cav ive taken out alot of their troops

[Tellos Athenaios]

Personally, I never found Egypt the serious threat - simply because by the time they declare war on me they can only field loads of cheap, worhtless mass and some chariot's and good archers. By that time I can both field some decent armies, and I have cash to spend.

One of the key things is - play safe. Fight those you can handle and fight where you can handle the war, thus: fight Armenia, fight Pontus, fight the Greeks. But: leave the Seleucids to Egypt.

Don't care about Scythia - unless you can afford several decent armies to be way out of the sight of home ignore. And even if: it's not worth the effort. With a bit of luck Scythia is busy retaking settlements from Thrace, or taking Tracian settlements (with my campaigns their frontier moved now and then several settlements, but never ever made it to either last hold).

As with any campaign get as much out of diplomacy as possible.

Back to the Greeks: ever considered that the Aegean is just as rich, if not even wealthier than the Mid-Eastern coast? I've seen Athens frequently making over 10.000 a turn, sometimes Pergamum would get close to that amount too. Forget about ""the man who controls Rome rules the world" - it is: (as it should be) "the man who unites the Aegean and the Peloponessus controls the world."

Seriously, the Rhodian skyline and the Games held in Olympia alone should make you try it.

Anyone controling Greece can easily smash the Egyptians - and even better: he also has acces to some decent infantry mercenaries popping up in a decent time.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Seconded on Greece. Either take it and wear Egypt down or assemble a strike force and go straight for Memphis. If you do Option 2, I guarantee the Egyptian collapse will accelerate due to infrastructure problems.

Don't forget about diplomacy. You could continue on Asia Minor and Greece whilst bribing the Egyptian armies that come your way.

And just one comment: Don't ever trust the diplomatic situation that Egypt will attack the Seleucids. I once had the misfortune of being hit with an Egypt/Seleucid/Pontus alliance. Still can't remember how I survived that one, although I do believe I did quite a bit of extermination...

[Patriarch of Constantinople]

Thx right now i took your advice and hit the heart of memphis then Alexandria, Thebes rebeled ,jerusalem sucked defending and seleucids took care of the rest. then i took care of seleucids

[Tellos Athenaios]

And just one comment: Don't ever trust the diplomatic situation that Egypt will attack the Seleucids. I once had the misfortune of being hit with an Egypt/Seleucid/Pontus alliance. Still can't remember how I survived that one, although I do believe I did quite a bit of extermination...

Hey, our Egyptian friends/foes have to attack the Seleucids, unless they give it a go for Arabia! Just leave the Seleucids as a sort of airbag against those Egyptian battering ram - that should do the trick.

At any rate Egypt is bound to go for Antioch at some point - they always do that.

I'm also of the opinion that Egypt is one of the most unreliable 'allies' you can have - if not the worst. Even in my first campaign, playing as Easy/Easy with the Julii they've hit me in the back despite our aliance and my support in their war with the Seleucids.

Now on to the next part of our 2 strategies - I tried once, playing as the Seleucids to sneak in and take Memphis. Fortuna adiuvat me, I thought, why not try and take that Pyramids Wonder, that should give me some help in maintaining public order among the Egyptians I had conquererd in both Sidon and Salamis, it should help me rule those Egyptians from Memphis - and above all it should weaken the Egyptian armies in the field because Egypt will need larger garrisons. Oh, yes - so far it worked out nicely. But it didn't help me all that much in comparisson with my experience of taking Jerusalem playing as the Greek Cities.

With Jerusalem I experienced several large stacks of fodder (numidians etc.) aproaching me in a pathetic attempt to take back what once was theirs. Easily crushing those stacks meant that there was now very little left in Egypt itself (the place they apparently came from), turning it into a place just waiting to be conquered by me, and that I had the momentum to do so because of my army that was already near the border with the Nile provinces.
After the fall of Egypt itself, Petra and Bostra didn't pose much of a threat.

On the other hand - without taking Jerusalem but sneaking into Memphis I had the problem of being a nice gray piece of map - surrounded by yellow. And what was worse: those large stacks of fodder continuously tried to siege the city. Since I had sneaked in - I hadn't included much of heavy infantry unit's. Not that numidian's are likely to win it in hand to hand combat from a 5 star general, but then again... my general wasn't likely to survive some 5 full stacks of them either. And to cup it all - being cut off from any source of trade my strongly reduced population of Memphis couldn't even pay up for themselves properly.

Now, General, your strategy truly has the full potential of fighting your enemy from within his borders. The reason why it didn't turn out so succesfully in my turn probably was that Egypt was busy reorganising her armies, sending in reinforcements, and therefore wasn't prepared to fight off my assault on the walls of Memphis - but did have the reserves to turn back and reclaim what had been theirs. So: yes, it probably is one of the best things to do when fighting Egypt -haven't I read somewhere in the Guide to the Brutii about a very similair move?-, but maybe it is also a very wise thing to make sure that you've got her full attention in, say, Jerusalem by attacking there first. (And repeatedly, if needed.)

Could even turn out to be a win win one, because if you can't either take or hold Memphis, you always have still a chance in Jerusalem - and vice versa.
Maybe I just try this version, next time I encounter the Sphinx.

[GrandInquisitor]

Quick question--hopefully having not been asked--at the end of a tragic campaign. I've dominated as Parthia many times, but decided to try something different. I abandoned Campus Sakae--and in effect Campus Alanni which I take for security reasons--and tried to set up my empire more or less like the Sassanids in BI. For about twenty years I did better financially, since I wasn't busy staving off Scythia and building outposts and fortress cities in the north. Production sky-rocketed, and trade was finally safe with the extra army.

But I was wary when Scythia, Egypt, the Seleucids, Pontus, and Thrace suddenly came to an alliance (Seleucids my only non-ally). When the-now-Scythian Campus Sakae revolted BACK to me, they all declared war against my wealthy empire. Now my treasury is virtually empty, and my army is slowly losing the ability to recover.

I've used spies to cause revolts in Alexandria and Memphis, but the Egyptians don't seem overly concerned with retaking them. And with all the ranged/mounted units these guys are fielding, plus fleets blockading, I'm struggling to plan any sort of offense--not to mention combating rampant plague from Egypt.

Does this strategy sound salvageable (leaving Scythia)? Parthia's always been my favorite faction, and even my experience tells me this game is dimly hopeful--despite my love of epic challenges. I really enjoyed not having to worry about Scythia and the north, while concentrating more strength in the west; but those two extra territories almost seemed to make a HUGE wartime difference. Perhaps demolishing Eastern buildings would have lessened Scythia's culture penalty and prevented the war. I don't know.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The Egyptians always go for Antioch unless you play Numidia, in which case it's an all-out effort to get Siwa. Funny, huh?

As far as fixing Egypt's attention somewhere else first, it's a fine strategy but defeats the purpose. The goal is to take control of the Pyramids so that the Egyptians lose a TON of loyalty bonuses and eventually some of their cities rebel. Then the Egyptians are stuck between a choice of taking back many cities from rebels or their most important city from you. They will be disorganised.

What would have been better is if you left Jerusalem to the rebels. That way the two would wear each other down in multiple battles for the city and you could swoop in afterwards and claim the city for yourself, while not having to fight five full-stacks.

*************

Inquisitor: The campaign is still extremely salvageable. Take your diplomat and sell Sakae to the Scythians. Try to get a ceasefire if you can as well. If so, immediately sell trade rights. Before you give it to our orange friends, demolish every building that you can for even more cash. I trust that will be plenty of denarii to help out the Egyptian campaign.

[Lorenzo_H]

Where the heck is Parthia on the map? I can't find it.

[Craterus]

Far East. They're the purple ones. They may have been eliminated in your campaign.

[Avicenna]

The three Easternmost Northern provinces that are separated by the Caspian sea. They're usually eliminated, so unless you're playing an Eastern faction or play with FoW off you probably won't see them. You could finance them if you want them to grow large of course.

[Craterus]

In my campaigns, Parthia usually take a slice from the Seleucids whilst they're being pounded by Egypt. And Egpyt tend to go into Asia Minor than bother with the poor eastern provinces.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Where the heck is Parthia on the map? I can't find it.

In RTW (vanilla) they start with 3 provinces: Camp Sakae above the Caspian, A_____ below the Caspian, and Susa in Mesopotamia. All 3 border the extreme Eastern edge of the original map.

[Avicenna]

Isn't it a better idea to trade with the Selucids and take the rich Egyptian provinces? If you allow the Egyptians to run riot with their multiple stacks, you'll have quite a hard time.

[Lorenzo_H]

Well they haven't been destroyed yet then - because I haven't unlocked them yet!

[GeneralHankerchief]

Isn't it a better idea to trade with the Selucids and take the rich Egyptian provinces? If you allow the Egyptians to run riot with their multiple stacks, you'll have quite a hard time.

It isn't.

First of all, you need money fast. So are you going to make the trek through tons of desert, losing lots of turns along the way and praying you don't run into any Egyptian armies along the way before you finally reach the Nile, or do you swing by Seleucia that is two seconds away, destroy the pathetic Seleucid garrison there with your HAs, and gain the 40% bonus on farming income wonder?

From there you can begin to finance an efficient campaign against your enemies. I took over Armenia, the Seleucids, Pontus, and even grabbed Halicarnassus before I went on the offensive against the Egyptians.

It may seem annoying staying on the defensive for years against the Eggies but just make sure your HAs don't run out of arrows, engage them in the open field, and things should be fine.

[Tellos Athenaios]

It is far better to advoid the war with Egypt for as long as possible, than hoping for a quick decisive campaign.

General Handkerchief pointed this out very clearly, so there's no need to make that effort myself - but I do have something to mention on the topic of going Westward.

After taking Seleucia, I think it's better to leave Antioch - as this generally triggers the war with Egypt. You might conquer Hatra, but from then you should - in my opinion - simply leave a small mobile force of HA's in your former Seleucid provinces, and move on to what's now modern Turkey.

If you're done with Armenia, follow the roads down to Pontus (you might hit into some, but lightly armed rebels) , and eliminate this faction. This should gain you the control of most of Turkey.

If they haven't been done in yet, expel the Greeks from Pergamum. Take what's left of Turkey - and you'll have a powerfull money making engine to support your warefforts against those who die at the Paraoah's command. (That's the only Egyptian virtue in RTW, others who have frequently fought them will recognise this.)

Now it's time to turn yourself on the Egyptians - it's time consuming, but given your solid preparation for it you're unlikely to lose it. Meanwhile, if you can gain Greece, you will have so much money making steamrollering power - that no faction will be able to succesfully stand in your way.

[Dominii]

It's been a nightmare campaign so far, on H/VH I've had to fight against Egypt, Scythia, Pontus and Armenia simultaneously. After 40 years I've managed to take Campus Alanni and hold the Scythians off, Take all of Pontus' larger citiest on the east of their inital territory and start assaulting the rest of Turkey. They still have their only large army in Tarsus, and my HA army is bearing down on them fast. Pergamum is theirs also, so that'll be worth taking. Damascus has a full stack of Seleucid militia hoplites at war with me, whilst I have Antioch, Sidon and Jerusalem and am busy defending it against the Egyptians. This leaves no spare army to take out Damascus as I have to fight off the egyptian sieges of the 3 cities and Palmyra, whilst simultaneously holding off their expeditions into Arabia. I've finally managed to stabalise my fronts having destroyed Armenia and irrevocably weakened the Seleucids and Pontus. Egypt are on the defensive once I get my Persian Archer armies moving and Scythia are no problem.

Parthia is a very good faction to play if you like easy battles and lots of them.

[Plaguelion]

I have a problem. Well, thats not completely true, i have hit a snag in my campaign. Vh/Vh Parthian campaign. I dominate the east completely and utterly I control all of asia minor and eastern Russia, and i have began an invasion of Europe, through Greece and Thrace. Now my Campaign is doing great, i make a fortune every turn and my real problem is spending the money, which i do buy having long queues in my cities and buying off rebels.

To my problem. I have thrown the Romans back into Europe, they fought tooth and nail to stay but i ripped them off anatolia. I did this on the backs of elephants and rushing with persian cavs. i believe just by sheer momentum i did that. but now i have to fight Huge roman stacks on European soil, i can bring elephants but it is tedious to move small armies to europe, plus i have only three or four regions that can build elephants. so my real question is does anybody have ideas for army structures that would be useful against endless roman stacks.

and Dont tell me to just macro Persian cav, and i use cats.
But anything you can tell me or suggest would be greatly appreciated.

[GeneralHankerchief]

and Dont tell me to just macro Persian cav, and i use cats.

Hate to tell you, but that's what works best.

Play the Battle of Carrhae (Historical Battles section) and you'll see why it worked so well. If the legionnaires don't form testudo they die under a storm of arrows. If they do form testudo then the cataphracts charge home and completely wreck the formation. The horse archer/cataphract combo destroys all Roman troops in the open field.

The area where Parthia is weak is infantry. Since you'll be doing a lot of sieging ahead I suggest either starving them out or hiring mercs to do the dirty work for you. I advise you to stay off of the walls; instead just try to bust through the gate/sap a wall. Your HAs will be more effective in street fighting than on the walls.

-Open-field ideal army: General, tons of HA's/Persian Cavalry with cataphracts/elephants as finishers.

-City battle ideal army: Sacrifice some of your HA's/Persian Cav for infantry mercs and/or Eastern Infantry. Onagers would help too. Leave the elephants at home however.

Hope this helps, and good luck!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

[QUOTE=GeneralHankerchief]
-Open-field ideal army: General, tons of HA's/Persian Cavalry with cataphracts/elephants as finishers.

-City battle ideal army: Sacrifice some of your HA's/Persian Cav for infantry mercs and/or Eastern Infantry. Onagers would help too. Leave the elephants at home however.QUOTE]


In general, I agree with this, but I'd refine it a bit.

1. If you have not already, snap up Crete and Rhodes. Between these provinces and Anatolia, you should be able to come up with a useful batch of mercs: Rhodians, Peltasts, Cretans, Hoplites.

2. Don't try a naval campaign unless you're willing to try to outspend all 4 Roman factions at once.


Build towards:

1 or 2 Field Armies:

General, 3-4 Cat's, 3-4 Hef's, 4-5 Spears/Hops, 3 Cretans, 1 Slinger (as bait), 2 Peltasts. Classic combined arms tactics for these folks. They are responsible for smashing the major field armies. Should avoid the immediate environs of a city when possible.

2 or 3 Siege Armies:

2-3 Cat's, 2 Cretans, 2 Slingers, 2-3 Onagers, 2-3 Generic archers, 6-7 Spear/Hop/Thracian/EXPERIENCED Hillmen. General a nice plus. They will be taking on the tough towns -- but the garrisons they attack should be isolated as these forces follow the Harrassers and Field Groups.

5-6 Harrasser Groups:

3-7 Horse Archers, possibly with some light cavalry. These groups attack small rienforcement groups, slow major forces, whittle the enemies numbers down -- especially the cavalry and missiles whenever they can target them. They bypass cities and forts. These groups should also screen the field armies when they are rebuilding following a major action or three.

[Plaguelion]

landing middle sized stacks of persian cav seemed to calm down greece, the romans are all locked down in their cities, and my siege army is working on athens.

i found having hillmen and onagers for sieges with masses of cats, work really well.

the hillmen and use sap points, and the onagers can bring down the walls, then cats charge thru. Granted i can only take on small garrison forces, anything sizeable and experienced i still have to wait out

but thanks for the help

[whtdoesitmatta]

Fun, Fun, Fun

I play on M/M because I basically suck at life so... Here's how it went
I started out taking the province between Armenia and Partia's lower Caspian bordering province(sorry for lack of names here).

I then Declared war against the selecuids, and took seleciua and got my favorite wonder, not the bonus, but the wonder itself. I then Allied myself with a few places like Egypt, Pontus, and Greece. I sold map information to everyone! I could find. Only thing that kept me alive for awhile.

I started building up the HA's and Persian Calvary, whenever I got them.
I then swept through Armenia, and wiped them out in 2 turns, one to build, one to assault. They had almost a full stack, but it didn't make it back in time...

I then sort of stalled, and started on a downward spiral, I started having severe money problems. After readind so much on here, I thought, lets go city trashing.

Took my army from The most north-east province, and went through Scythia-Great place to do this eh?-. Yeah, it didn't help too much thanks to the great distance between cities, and my only infantry was a group of peasants that eventually died...

I then really started having money problems... and Diplomatic problems.
Pontus decided they wanted to take those 2 Armenia provinces. So they pulled up 2 full stacks, one for each city, I pulled out of one just in time of one of the cities to get on my one Bireme. They took both of them.

I then decided to go desperate, knowing the 3 best places money wise, are: The Aegean, Italy, and Egypt and the Eastern Med. Seeing as the Eastern Med is currently a being covered in dead soldiers. I then Decided to send almost all my army from Susa and Selecia, down and around, and into the heart of Egypt. I am currently neutral with them, as they sided with Pontus in the lose of Armenia.

In order to help 1 and a half stacks of pure calvary, I send that one bireme of 5 hillmen around to the lighthouse. Getting there was slow and expensive as I went into the red. I used my second Scythian province as a way to break bac k even and hire the last of the mercs.

I then split up the bireme, which was unattacked all the way there(far east black sea- the lighthouse. I easily took Memphis, but it took me two tries to take Alexandria.

They Also had a full flag in Thebes... Not sure if they were expecting company or not...

I finally got the half stack out of Thebes and into the open with a less then half stack of pure HA and PC. Well guess what my first marked battle of the campaign. I then slid in and took Thebes.

Now with my money getting worse and worse, I decided to go drastic. I emptied all my cities except Egypt, and started the movement towards the Eastern Med.

I finally broke back green when I got sold map info to Carthage, who had recently conqured the closest city to egypt. I used this to pump PC's as long as I could. I finally got those guys from the closest abandoned cities and was able to sneak into Sidon, and take that.

I lost all but 3 PC's and a slinger.
Then Egypt attempted to take it back with a 3/4 flag and a half flag. I just sat there waiting for them to take it back, so I decided to Demolish all none profit makers in order to get some more money, and hinder Egypt. Well, They for some reason just left, I think it was because Sele's took back Damascus.
This left me with a city that couldn't train anything but peasants weird...

I finally had a my second wave of reinforcements and sent them to Jeruselem.
At this same time I sent a good calvary army to the city to the east of egypt starts with a "P". I Took Jeruselem, and that finally put me back in the green for good. In the P battle I was sieging the city, when they brought down one of those never ending full stacks. I had one half stack to 1 full and 1/3 stack.

In the battle I quickly took care of the 1/3 stack, and conserved a good bit of arrows, thanks to my one group of cataphracts, and those long speared 1200$ mercs. I then Hid in the woods, and surrounded the full stack, beating them senseless. Hurray, another Battle Marker, This then gave me the city, because their defence was no more.

The P citied boosted Thebe's profit by alot. now I had 3 cities making 2000, and 2 losing 1000.

I am getting bored so...
here is what else has happened.
I have taken sidon, and Anitoch from Egypt, and am Allied with the Sele's only and only at war with Egypt. I am missing one port from the red sea, but Egypt has that city way too guarded. should I Go for Halicarnusses, and start fighting the Pontus. Betray the Selecuids, or finish a weakened Egypt. I want to go after the Selecuids because their lands can produce Camels and Elephants, but they have a very good army.

BLAH