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Thread: The Greek Cities

  1. #31
    Member Member Mr Frost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorn
    ...but those peltast drove my nuts...
    Your nuts are motorised and have wheels ?!? How did they get the keys ?




    My Greek Cities game has been interesting . I struck Macedon on the second turn and took Macedonian each city in turn {bribing a few times} untill I had destroyed them {I'm doing the same to Thrace now whist maintaining an aliance with their enemies Dacia : I'll give them the last Thracian city to help keep them strong against Rome and as a buffer to Scythia} .

    The Interesting part is how I seem to have managed to Neutralise the Romans without even having a single war with them .
    On Sicily I chose to build Syracuse as a Military production centre {I figured it would have to fight a war on its' own} and imediatly sold maps and trade right to Scipii and Carthage whilst building up an army steadily of Hopilites and Mercenary Missiles .
    I noticed Scipii chose to try and Take the Carthaginians first {not sure why , but I might have looked too strong for his available forces and I think the Carthaginians attacked or otherwise provoked them} and not wanting to let Scipii get another city to increase their strength against me , I sent my Diplomat to see if I could bribe them . Well , they were either two expensive or unbribeable-Faction leader or Faction Heir {I can't remember which now}- but I then sent my bag man to Messana and the Scipii apparantly had some kittens and quit the seige to race back to their Sicilian base . That gave me the idea to see if I could play head games with them , and apparantly I can .
    It is now winter in 249 B.C. and Cathage and the Scipii still have their starting Cities {they fought only one big battle that left a marker and Scipii won it} , I have a Ring of three forts with held each by just a single Militia Hopilite unit each blocking my border from their armies {they will have to go through them , and the Scipii are so broke they won't be getting any artilery for a long time yet} plus a big buff army of my own {8Armoured Hopilites , 4 Merc Peltasts , Peltast , 2 Cretian Archers , 1 Archer , 4 Hopikites , 2 Merc Hopilites , 2 Militia Cav , 2 Greek Cav , 1 Samnite Merc -there were some there historically so I modded it , 2 Ballistas and 4 Militia Hopilites for garrison duty and Both my Faction Leader and a promising young family member} which easily outclasses what the others present there {Scipii are obviously out of money} and whist I could take that Island in a number of ways it is so dammed interesting messing with them like this .
    I think that by showing a lot of {well armoured} teeth , you can convince the Scipii to try Carthage {and Carthage to try Scipii} first . The *take you hardest troops and stand in their face* method seems to convince them to leave your territory at the start if you make sure to get a big bruising line of Hopilites and Mercenaries .

    The Brutii I have also kept at bay with a combination of helping the Dacians {alliance and smashing the Thracians when they attacked Dacia} whom have taken territory up to the Dalmatian coast and intimidation from a hard fullstack army with a spy in it to prevent bribery . The Brutii only own Epirus {town is Apollona} and are obviously as strapped for cash as the Scipii , and the Gauls seem to have managed to keep the Julii hemmed in except for Liguria {Segesta} .

    This is setting up to be an interesting game .

    For those who must know , I play on normal level : its' only a game {I consider computer games to be more like television than worthy challanges , plenty of the latter in the real world} and frankly , winning a game on I'm too sexy/I'm too sexy level doesn't mean a great deal in the real world to me and includes some anoying "gamey" elements to beef A.I. that ruin my immersion . If I want challange , I step outside where real life has them in abundance with actual and genuine rewards for success {though P.V.P. games -WWIIOL is my favorite- can provide challanging opponents , it cannot keep my attention solely on challange given it is still but a game ; it is only able to keep my interest as a diversion/entertainment} . Its' just a game . A very , very good game , but still just pure entertainment for me .
    Some players have a bad habbit of deriding any whom don't play "I'm too sexy/I'm too sexy" level . They should grow up and show some character {that is good character , not chrulish nor childish character} and simply be happy with they having it there way and others having it how they might wish .
    I'll demonstrate the correct attitude for them : you do it your way , Ill do it mine .
    What I have done might not work on Very Hard/Very Hard level {the A.I. gets a +7 to its' units attack stats , thus generally has statistically stronger armies evertime if they are even close to yours in size , which would probably make it decide to attack you from the getgo} , though on Very Hard/Normal Level it might {your army would , built up strong enough , be stronger than theirs' and likely deter attack : note , Phalanx units can kill elephants fast if facing them in formation , thus could likely be considered stronger by the A.I. than you might were you facing Phalanx with Elephants} .
    Some might like to try it and see .
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    I'm not going to change for the other three .

  2. #32
    Member Member D. Boon's Ghost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    While I do agree that vh/vh is far too much for me, Mr. Frost, I recently moved up to h/h in my current Greek Cities campaign and it's like night and day. I feel that the battle adjustments to the AI on Hard makes up for the almost complete lack of AI generals that you experience on every difficulty level.
    I've been having a devil of a time from the mid-game on; bogged down on 2 of my 3 'fronts' to the point where I am starting to get nervous (in the context of a video game, of course - heh).

    * Egypt and Rebels simply refuse to allow me to pass/hold on to Tarsus; the area is scattered with historic battle markers to mock my lack of progress. The first time I occupied Tarsus, rebels kicked me out after I occupied them. The second time, the peasants got snooty after I enslaved them. Right before I saved, Egypt seiged the city with 1700 men (probably all axemen) against my garrison of 300 after first taking my fort that was guarding the mountain pass to the northeast. I'm telling you, the next time I take that place over I am burning the sucka to the ground!
    * Carthage 'allowed' me to capture their capital and the two cities to the South of them (sorry, I'm a geographic ignoramous), only to overthrow me from Carthage and the city below it once they bumped off Numidia. The lone city I hold onto in Africa had just turned blue on me, even though it's fully garrisoned and it is set to Growth. 3 attempts at getting a Governor to them has been rebuffed by three separate naval powers; as such, I am contemplating striping the place and pulling out at the first signs of pitchforks and hungry torches.
    * The Italian creeps have been gracious enough to allow me to crush them into the pavement, but those darned Ju Ju beans are giving me trouble in what was once the Gaul/Britannia territory in Europe. The Senate is long gone, their Scipii and Brutii cousins off visiting Hades, and yet Caeser's kids sit in their cafes - eating Bavarian pretzels and laughing at my slouth-like crawl in converting them to the ways of Socrates. How rude.

    The main problem with Greece, as has been pointed out, is that their one Super Unit; the Spartan Hoplite, is a turtle that refuses to breed anywhere but in Sparta (duh) and Syracuse. Keeping up with the Jones' in the naval department is iffy at best (on Hard) - so ferrying those turtles from the two points is a slow process that involves years worth of port jumping.
    I thought holding onto Syracuse on Medium was a key to victory; on Hard, it's the key to survival.

    In my last M/M campaign, once I took the Italian boot the game was over; mop up time all the way. In this current H/H one, the game has just begun.

  3. #33
    Member Member Mr Frost's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Quote Originally Posted by D. Boon's Ghost
    ...The main problem with Greece, as has been pointed out, is that their one Super Unit; the Spartan Hoplite, is a turtle that refuses to breed anywhere but in Sparta (duh) and Syracuse. Keeping up with the Jones' in the naval department is iffy at best (on Hard) - so ferrying those turtles from the two points is a slow process that involves years worth of port jumping.
    I thought holding onto Syracuse on Medium was a key to victory; on Hard, it's the key to survival...

    Yeah , I'm going to have to mod in some pornographer units to get those Spartans thinking about horozontal folk dancing with women by crickey !
    7 out of 10 people like me ,
    I'm not going to change for the other three .

  4. #34

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I abandoned sicily once i built a navy. it is time and resource consumng.

    you have to be aggressive. you should build traders in Rhoedes and Pergamum. build hoplites in Sparta, i profer armoured holites because they are greater it means waiting but in the long run you will be thankful.

    I tend to stick to the one unit, i stick with the armoured Hoplites. they can hold and break any infantry, cavalry and ever chasing archers because of thier shields they take little loses.

    I took Cornith, than Athens than Larrisa. i waited 10 turns built forts in all mountian passes, this stopped Macedonia's chance of invading succefully. luckily the plague hit them, i sent in a Diplomat and he was infected, now this was a useful little tool. since he was and any army/town he entered was infected..i sent him into all the Roman cities near me and when he died i sent another and repeated the process..i servely weakened them..

    I tried and tried and tred to get a ceasefire with the Romans how ever even after an offer of 100k gold and 3 provinces they wouldnt cave, soo...i trained 10k armoured hoplites... and sacked Rome... now the problem with this is the Roman fleets. i had to gather every boat i owned to attack them succefully, i think the men involved were 1500 (Rome) 2800(Greece) naturally they went home 1000 men short. but they still harried my boats that i used to send my armies over, so after 6 turns i made it.

    i took over ancient Persia and destoryed the selecuid empire and Pontus. Egpyt is currently at war with me and unable to defeat my hoplites.

    does anyone know how to build Spartian Hoplites?
    And he rose, and spoke forth, "Go my warriors, go forward to victory!"

  5. #35
    Ming the Merciless is my idol Senior Member Watchman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Highest-level barracks in Sparta, AFAIK (or at least the building file mentions something called "hidden_resource_sparta" as a prequisite...). If that doesn't work, it's probably buggy.
    "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. --- Proof of the existence of the FSM, if needed, can be found in the recent uptick of global warming, earthquakes, hurricanes, and other natural disasters. Apparently His Pastaness is to be worshipped in full pirate regalia. The decline in worldwide pirate population over the past 200 years directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature. Here is a graph to illustrate the point."

    -Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster

  6. #36

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    hmmm... I'll have to go check my savegame. If I recall correctly, the barracks of a 12'000 people city is enough. I was able to build them and it's not like Sparta jumps to 24'000 all that fast...


    EDIT: It is indeed the case. You need the highest level barracks (at town >12'000) to build the spartan hoplites.
    Last edited by Soulitaire; 11-26-2004 at 22:32. Reason: Added Answer
    - Soulitaire

  7. #37
    Master of Puppets Member hellenes's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Now everyone says that :abandon sicily!
    I say NO!!
    Magna Grecia (great hellas) should be restored and those stinky barbarians called romans kicked out as the asian mercenary phoenician scums...jk
    Turn one: take all the units and the general from syracuse hire the merc hoplites and the peltasts and attack the roman army in Mesana they will be split and by the time that the second army arrives you have killed the pripary and if you are good in the tactic map Messana will be yours in the summer 270
    While doing this siege korinth and send your thermon army to the north to take apollonia which will be your sally/kill post facing the brutii...
    After securing sicily (the carthies can be yeasily overrolled since you have two cities and they have only one and they dont reinforce it from africa) the money starts to roll in you aim will be securing western asia minor and destroying the Makedonians...

    Hellenes
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    ΑΙΡΕΥΟΝΤΑΙ ΕΝ ΑΝΤΙ ΑΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΟΙ ΑΡΙΣΤΟΙ ΚΛΕΟΣ ΑΕΝΑΟΝ ΘΝΗΤΩΝ ΟΙ ΔΕ ΠΟΛΛΟΙ ΚΕΚΟΡΗΝΤΑΙ ΟΚΩΣΠΕΡ ΚΤΗΝΕΑ

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  8. #38
    Lord, Cartographer and Poet. Member King Azzole's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    TIP:

    Dont know if this was mentioned yet, you should immediately in turn 1 take all your units in sparta and siege corinth. Turn 2, attack the city and take it. Will make a big difference.
    Charge, repeat as necessary.

  9. #39
    graduated non-expert Member jerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    [QUOTE=Colovion]The biggest thing I can suggest when you go up against Macedon is to form your Phalanx units in DEEP formation - at least 5 or 6 deep. Make sure you have your flanks/rear covered as well because you haven't many good cav units. I took over the entire Greek Penninsula with mainly Hoplite units only boltered by some Cretian archer mercs (which are indespensible in the early game) and perhaps some Militia Cav. Sometimes by the time you get to Larissa or anywhere north of that area you will encounter the plague. Build Sewers and Public baths ASAP in all northern provinces to counteract the spread of it - losing a couple family members totally cripples your Family Tree if you dont' watch out.
    QUOTE]

    how do you do the 'deep'-part? and why?---> how and why?

  10. #40

    Angry Re: The Greek Cities

    can anyone give me the code for the Macedon plague. I was being stupid and deleted it when I played Macedon and now I want it back so I can infect all their cities. it is in C:\Program Files\Activision\Rome - Total War\Data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign. Look in the text file descr_events and it is like the second or third one down entitled plague_in_macedonia. I need all 3 lines of code in that group. Thanks. PS I know it happens really early, but I want it for my next campaign.

    In addition I find it usefull to only take Theramon, Athens, Corinth, and Sparta in southern Greece, since I can then use the Macedonians as a buffer in the north while I focus my attentions elsewhere. Then I can kill the Brutii at my leasure while Macedon is to occupied with Thrace to bother with me at the moment.

  11. #41
    Member Member Piko's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    in my old game as the greek cities i played m/m (only second playtrough) and was able to hold syracuse and take over sicily while i crippled the macedons and sealed of greece i united my two army's and sent them into asia minor keeping my momentum untill a crushing defeat in antioch made me rebuild my forces meanwhile i had invaded greece and faced a scipii/brutii force the brutii had their faction leader and the scipii their main army i killed the faction leader and the scipii took off it was the last brutii so their cities rebelled and became small pickings then the road to rome was open.

  12. #42
    Member Member dismal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    My greek campaign (VH/H) has probably been my easiest so far. About 12 years in and Rome is in big trouble.

    The main reason: Money. The Greeks should be swimming in it.

    You can pretty much build units and building upgrades constantly in all your cities. You can also bribe rebels - many of whom join your faction instead of disappearing. You can also buy lots of Mercs, particularly Cretan archers.

    The challenge is managing 3 theatres simultaneously. Sicily, Greece and Turkey.

    I kept Sicily. Both the Scipii an Carthage came right after me (Turn 1 and Turn 2, I think) but both were beaten rather easily on my walls thanks to bad AI. I had a unit of archers (Can't recall if I was given them or if they came with a bribed rebel unit) that I perched above the gate. Then it was just a matter of a couple turns before I had Messana and could crank out 2 units per turn. Lilyaeum fell pretty fast after that. Then I got Syracuse built up to make archers. And I was in complete control of Sicily.

    Turkey, I more or less left alone. I took what rebel provinces I could easily and ended up with Ancyra, and two of the western-most provinces. Lots of good mercs to be hired here. I've built this area up economically, used it to send troops to Greece, but done little else there so far.

    Greece. I laid off Macedon at the beginning, and they laid off me up to a point. I took Athens and Crete by force and bribed one other province (Salona?) because I happened to have a diplomat walking by and it was cheap. Eventually the Romans mobbed Thermon. First Brutii, then Julii. At one point, I had two full stacks of Brutii and Julii attack at once and lost Thermon. Around this time, Macedon attacked Sparta and things were a little anxious.

    I solved the Macedon problem by taking a half-stack of guys from Turkey, mixing in some of my Athens garrison and besieging Corinth. They pulled their siege of Sparta back to defend, and after a series of battles Corinth was mine, followed quickly by Larissa. Macedon is losing territory fast.

    I solved the problem with the Romans by dropping a very nice stack in peninsular Italy, which was quite poorly defended. Brutii were eliminated in just a couple turns, Scipii and SPQR soon to follow. It appears the entire might of Rome was focused on taking me out. The Scipii in failing to take Sicily, and the Brutii and Julii in Greece. None of the Roman factions has expanded beyond its original borders.

    So, long story short, hold Sicily if you can. It neutralizes the Scipii directly and makes a great launching pad for an early invasion of Italy.

  13. #43

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Just yesterday I finished my first big campaign as the Greekc Cities.

    By the end of the game, I held all of the Greek peninsula up to Bylazora, all of the Italian peninsula, most of Gaul and all of Asia Minor and controlled the best part of the Mediterrannean with my fleets. I pretty much exterminated the Seleucid Empire and was starting to reach over to the Iberian peninsula in the west and Egypt to the east, when the game ended, right when I captured my first Spanish city (held by Numidian armies by then) ... baaah...

    Now, here's two things I learned from it all.

    One, there's only one surefire way to deal with squalor. Every time you take a city, slaughter everybody, especially from the mid-game on, when cities are starting to overcrowd themselves to slow death. Most Roman cities I captured had at least two levels of farming developped and that spells overpopulation like nothing else...

    Now, killing everybody once you capture a new settlement won't do anything for the ones you already control (except, of course, that it will not add to their already high squalor by sending even more people to crowd them up). So, sometimes rebellions occur and they can be pretty annoying.

    In this case, I found it's best to just withdraw all armies from the rebelling settlement, wait for the rebel army to form, siege the settlement, take it and slaugher everybody in it. Yes, again.

    All this creates a situation though- you end up having a lot of people in a few central Huge Towns and many Large Towns with populations of less than 10.000... or even less than 5.000!

    Well, the only way to deal with that, is forced immigration. Have every Huge Town produce Peasants, without stop. Then send them over to the smaller settlements you want to populate and disband them inside them. It works, as it's been suggested before, but it's very dull to do, truth be told... In any case, by the time you get to this point, you 'll have left over several lesser troops (like militia hoplites, for example, or regular peltasts) who are just sitting around needlessly garrissoning towns that are far from your borders and munching on your budget. You can disband them too. You don't need them.

    Which brings us to lesson learned, number two.

    Namely, don't bother building anything but phalanx units. It's a waste of time.

    Yup. I know it's heretic, I know we (we as in Greeks... well, not me personally... but you get my point...) lost an empire and then some to the Romans for lack of diversity and flexibility, I know Alexander took over the world with his ingenuity in mixing it up between phalanx and hypaspists and all that... but, still... The naked truth is, in RTW, if you have enough phalanx units, then everything else is simply redundant.

    No, you don't need missile troops. They just get in the way. For the first few decades of game time, I kept it by the book and built toxotes and peltasts to go with my hoplites. Well, guess what, after every battle, I found my missile troops in tatters, having accomplished nothing but to cost me their retraining funds... while my phalanx units where all but unharmed. And, usually, victorious, to boot.

    Seriously. What do you need other troops than the phalanx for? Well, you need them to keep the phalanxs' flanks protected, as there's very few things that can harm the phalanx face on, so conventional wisdom says. But then, why would you want to keep your precious, vulnerable flanks protected by... well, by anything but more of the best defensive unit type you can have? No, really. Why would you try to guard your flanks from a charge by preatorian cavalry with... what, heavey peltasts? Slingers!? It's suicidal.

    As about cavalry overtaking because the phalanx is too slow... well, conventional wisdom, again, says the phalanx can't move to save its' life. Well, it can't, but hoplites don't need to maintain their phalanx formation when they 're manoeuvering. There's a little button in their control pannel that lets you switch formations. As plain spearmen, they can make a dash for it, even from one end of a 16- unit wide line to the other, fast enough to reinforce the line against heavy cavalry (not to mention infantry). I do it all the time. I can show you screenshots if you don't believe me. The phalanx can't run, but the hoplites can. See them run! The Spartans, in particular, look like a gigantic mutated crustacean... (just remember to form them back to a phalanx once they 're where you want them... Oh, and don't forget you can just press "," and "." to wheel a unit- or a group!- any time. They stagger a bit to one side but they make a perfectly ordered rotation).

    The only missile troops I use, ever, anymore, is Rhodian slingers. And that's only because I like slings (and it says something that I can afford to have fun flinging stones to peoples' helmets and listening for the "t'clong", right in the middle of battle and win to tell the tale).

    Even cavalry is redundant, as long as you play defensive. And, as it has been pointed out, if you play with the Greeks, you should. Even as you slowly work your way to an imperialistic orgy, you still can play defense- just don't attack your enemies' armies. Siege their settlements, so that they have no choice but to sally forth or send troops from outside. At which point, you 're the defender and all you need to do to win the game is pick your high ground, arrange your phalanx in a wide horseshoe and wait for the enemy army to charge you, then rout themselves silly ... hey, it happens to all men...

    Erm... OK, on a second thought, do keep a few cavalry units behind your phalanx line. It will really speed the game up. And it's hard to mop up routers with a phalanx...

    Oh. And something else... Thracian mercs. The ones with the romphaeae... I never got around to using them yet, but they look cool. They can play the varanguian guard for your phalanxs' Byzantian infantry. The Greeks can really use a good shock troop.

    {Woooo! Look at me, I 'm the Greek Cavalry!!!}

    {Go away! Can't you see we 're in the middle of something??!!}

    There. Hope you found it enlightening enough...

  14. #44
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    In my game i managed to hold on to Sciliy (thx to a little luck ) but lost asia minor to the Pontus as i brought my rhodes troop to the balkans :/

    because of that i'm not making that much progress, though i did finally manage to secure sciliy for myself and is slowly pushing north on the balkans (very slow... havn't even taken back Athens yet though i did take the Macidonian city north east of Thermon.)

    I think it is wise to either evacuate Asia minor or Sicily... personally I think you should evacuate asia minor instead of sciliy because the Pondus or Seleucid will not likely become super power house usually but the Scipili will if they secure sciliy fast.

    You will need to kill the Romans fast obviously....

    Milita cav are acturally quiet strong ... espically early on when no one is running around with many archers... they can destroy must infantry on their own.

    I think later on if u don't wan to mass merc just mass onager+Archer+ hoplits :P.

  15. #45

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Hello, I am a Greek and I am not wealthy.

    But how can this be?? The story follows...

    Well, actually, I've become very poor in my 2nd Greek campaign on H/H. My first was M/M, and in that I was making more money than Zeus and basically rolling over all opposition to spread Stoicism across the world. (It must be so, for Ariston to go out of his way to place a pop-up about his philosophy... RITE?)

    I suppose part of the reason is because of v1.2, which takes away the option to sell your pretty little map to other factions for thousands.

    I started out my H/H Greek campaign just like my M/M one, immediately storming Corinth and pissing off (and only) the Macedonians on the first turn. By turn 3 I have taken the city, and immediately after Macedon calls for a ceasefire, which was unexpected and I accept. This gives me time to prepare the attack on the rebel city of Athens.

    Meanwhile, Sicilly is quiet as the factions there wait in the calm before the storm. And exactly like my M/M game, Carthage is the first to break the peace, and lamentedly, as before they choose to attack me instead of the Scipii. Lamentedly for them, that is. They attack at the worst possible time: After I had built the next level of barracks to obtain regular

    Hoplites, but before they themselves have any reliable artillery or missiles. And my lively Syracusean governor has managed to find a band of Cretan Archers while he was out strolling in the woods. With the incredible courage born to the Sons of Helen, I drive out the invaders, after the Carthaginians run the gauntlet of my walls. And arrow towers. And burning oil. And missile fire coming down long narrow roads.

    The single greatest difference that v1.2 has made for this campaign so far is that the Hoplite is nerfed. Perhaps it is the higher difficulty from Medium, but even from the front, a charge will make the Hoplites buckle initially, before (and if) they push back and reform the line. They don't creep sideways as much, and they are far less powerful and take longer to beat an enemy unit in front. No more neat lines of dead! They are also now highly vulnerable on the move. If the hoplites are attacked while moving, even from the front, the front ranks will engage with swords, BUT you can tap the Halt key and they will switch to spears and grind away at the enemy as per normal. The deep formation actually works now, because a long thin one will immediately crumple, or they will all switch to swords (typically, if the hoplites can't hold off the enemy with spears only, the first rank will switch to swords but their buddies in the back will keep poking with their spears). I actually like the nerfing, it makes it all seem more natural for some reason. They are still formidable from the front like always, only now they aren't super humans at it. I've lost whole units of hoplites, surging them through broken walls and gates, where previously they could be relied upon to pin the defenders down while the archers do their work and I pile the infantry through the breaches. But, ah, such is war.

    In the East, efforts are made to turn Pergamum into a military complex in anticipation of expansion in that direction. I gain an alliance with Pontus but it is not so easy with the Selucids. I take the bother of getting my general off Rhodes and into Halicarnassus because it is hard to be lively on a small island. In my M/M game, Pontus and Selucia went to war, but in this one the Selucids attack Halicarnassus, and fail.

    Meanwhile, a few hundred rebels appear around Apollonia after I eventually take that city. My first impulse is to crush the upstarts, then I scout the rebels and saw that they were comprised of Greek units, and in particular, 3 whole units of heavy peltasts. I splurge to get them, and they prove handy later when I march towards Thessalonica and a full stack of Macedonians comes to meet me on open ground. In my previous games, I never used skirmishers, a preference retained from Shogun and

    Medieval, but after reading so many good things about them in Rome, I decided that I had to use a few of them at least. I've decided that skirmishers like peltasts are good to have if you have nothing better. They can do heaps of carnage if they throw their javelins into a flank or rear, but that sort of opportunity doesn't come by often. Apparently, the speed with which they fire is demoralizing; a few volleys into an enemy that's pinned down by hoplites is often enough to rout them.

    They're the fastest moving infantry, so they are handy for chasing the routing enemy from the field. Thessalonica is as good as mine, and the Macedonians were kind enough to build it up for me. But then, in a huge upset, Pontus breaks the alliance and attacks Pergamum, because, I think, I had accidentally wandered into its territory while exercising my governor. But still...!

    With regards with the Scipii in Sicilly, I had hoped that they would stay neutral and keep being nice trading partners (thus, with SPQR and the other 2 Roman families as well). History repeats itself and the Scipii come for Syracuse, instead of the surely weakened Carthagianians, a move that reeks of spite rather than logic. Like my M/M game, I am forced to go to war with the Romans early while having to contend with Carthage, only this time there is Pontus and Selucia as well. But the saga is far from over. THRACE tries to invade Thessalonica, so by the mid-260s I am at war with NINE factions including Rebels. On the plus side, Gaul has become my ally. WHOOPEE! I've never played the Selucids, but it sure feels like I'm playing them. In my M/M game, the Macedonians perished at my hand by this time, and Thrace was probably gone or dying, and I would surely have been sailing for the Romans.

    And then the volcano erupts. I had completely forgotten about that. I lose an emissary (will of the Gods, eh?) but soon afterwards, Messana becomes mine.

    In the East, things do not go smoothly for me. Pergamum becomes a place where it takes forever to get anything done, rather then my envisioned shining city of hoplites, all thanks to Pontus coming around every now and then to say hello with whole stacks of armies. Instead, Halicarnassus is relatively peaceful because eventually I realized there is a bridge there that can hold off the Selucids with a relatively small force. But by then Halicarnassus is well into economy mode.

    The time is around 258. The 9 factions at war with Greece have started going neutral or allying with one another and I dread what's coming next: war on all fronts. I had also completely forgotten about the plague, which starts in Thessalonica around this time and brings things there to a standstill. Sicilly is totally mine, conquered by one general and his sons (I lose a general in Lilybaeum to a charge gone wrong). In my M/M game, I would be rolling over the Romans, to wage war with the Gauls, now, I am struggling to build an economy. I am earning about 10k a turn, which is gone in a flash, and there is also the problem of naval blockades, which take place more often with v1.2. I plan on holding off Macedon and Thrace around Thessalonica, to invade either the Romans or Carthage. I need to enslave largish populations to pump up Syracuse and Sparta to large cities (Syracuse is ahead!) and then I can reap the benefits of Spartan Hoplites. The tale continues...

    As a last word, I think the Greek strategy is rather ironically symbolized by its flag, the lightning bolt. Greece's collection of Hoplites are the slowest things on the field, and their cavalry are sadder than the Romans (somewhat moot
    because the Romans have historically incorrect powerful cavalry in this game) and the barbarians. Their battlefield tactics emphasize close infantry action, and an advancing battle line, with missile support. Well, I suppose this is true for nearly all factions in general, but Greeks in particular because this is all they can do, and do WELL. Another thing is that you need a rock solid economy going. There are 3 classes of archer; short-ranged skirmishers, units with regular range, and the long range ones. It seems that the Greeks get their long range units long before any other of the factions, through Cretan Archers, which populate all of their starting territories. But because they are mercs, they are expensive. And because of the nature of the hoplite, hoplite armies are incredibly weak on the flanks. The majority of my casualties are from flanking cavalry. So, while the Greeks plod around on the tactical field, on the campaign map they need to be FAST. Whether you use spies or siege equipment, the Greeks need to take the cities as quickly as possible. On open ground they present their weaknessses, but in cities they are unbeatable. I've played Julii, Germania, Britannia, but only the Greeks I've enjoyed so much that I'm doing them twice.

    So, like the cockney Greek General says: Now is the time for Greek courage! And always remember: Front Towards Enemy!

  16. #46

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    While Rome wasn't built in a day, Greece can be. I've been playing RTW for about a month now and having beat it once as the Greeks in version 1.1 by year 246, I decided to give it my all to win this game as quickly as possible without cheating. I used no mods and nothing that would be considered cheating. Many times I saved and reloaded, many times I exploited AI weaknesses and flaws, and through it all I only become more and more cheap as far as my victorys went, but it was all legal. My goal was to win in 40 turns or before 250 BC. I actually won by 257 BC.

    On to the fun stuff. Here is a map of the direction I took and what year I reached each city.

    Final Map

    If you want to see my little journal that I was writing while going through this campaign, check out this site.

    Journal

    This was all in good fun and I must say I really enjoyed it. I think that it can still be done faster by at least 3 or 4 turns, but I'm not going through that hell again. I spent about 45 minutes to an hour per turn just analyzing everything and going through the battles.

    I also want to note that I don't think that any other faction could beat the game as fast as the Greeks are capable of. The Seleucids and Egyptians are probably the next fastest, but I'd say the Greeks have the upperhand due to how spread out they are.

    I hope some of you Greeks out there are able to get some use out of this!

  17. #47
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    As the greeks, the news isn't too good...
    1.you start with 5 cities but sepeated in 3 different fronts, non of them are connected save by sea.

    2. on all 3 front you are in a 3 way brawl, and on all 3 front you are in the weakest position with little hope of reinforcement anytime soon.

    3. your army is vanillia and outdated, you have a one purpose infantry line up, one of the crappiest calvary line up and mediocare at best archery and skrimish line up, the only thing above par is your seige line up. your army is highly defensive in nature.

    There are some good news though.
    1. you start with rhodes and pretty much any province you own or will own have ports too, meaning you will be pretty good in the money department as long as you can keep ur trade open.

    2. you will get seiged a lot, but luckily ur hoplits are extremely good at seige defense. and the AI is extremely retarded in seige assults. (and defense too) you also start with stone walls on ur most dangerous province Syracuse, while u can capture Athens fast which also has a stone wall.

    3. wether intentional or not, the hoplits are acturally better than their supposed superior pike counter parts in most sense. as long as you manage to keep them from being flanked they will carve their way through pretty steep odds.

    Now, you can choose to give up one front asap, or you can try stay on all 3 front, either way ur first priorty should be acquiring Athens and Cornith to secure ur foothold on the balkans. I highly suggest capturing Athens first, reason being i rather have Cornith jammed between Sparta and Athens then tring to take Athens while the Macedonians counterattack me.Taking Athens before u get into war with Macedonian also mean u have a stone wall defense against any one trying to head south.

    On Sciliy and Asia minor I highly suggest massing up at least 6-7 groups of miltia hoplits right off the bat, they will be able to deal with most seige assults for a while, on Sciliy do remember that Messina is on a time bomb to blow, you either take it really quick or you wait till the Volcano goes off before attacking. this sector will be quiet hard fought but luckily at least ur in a good situation to defend it.

    After taking Cornith and Athens, i think focus on Sciliy is ur best move, the reason being that if you want to win on the Balkans, the best way to do it is probably by seiging the Brutties hometown and cut off their reinforcements. and securing Sciliy will give u a easy jump right onto the Bruttis heartland.

    On Asia minor really take the chaces as they are Presented, it's a loooong way to fight but securing Sardis and Hellenisia will at least give u a relatively good foothold. the other factions there will kill each other eventrually, just make sure u don't become the first victim. if possible sue for peace with the Selucids and/or Egyptians as they are going to give u good trade.

  18. #48

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    btw Even the 'non-playable' factions can be made playable by editing a little text document.

    As regards the Greeks, one word: Spartans

  19. #49
    Barbarian of the north Member Magraev's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Those spartan hoplites are absolutely awesome! When everyone else is "tired" these supermen are "warmed up". I laughed out loud the first time I saw that.

    It's a sad day when any one of these demi-gods die since any reinforcements are a long time coming. My present spartan unite is at 2 silver chevrons and are down to 68 men (of 80). 9 of those were lost taking the walls of rome, while the rest of the greek army waited outside...

    At the start none will ally with you, but after taking two of the Macedon southern cities, Athens, Crete and the two western greek ones they've started to come around. Presently I'm allied with the gauls, dacians and seleucids and at peace with everyone else except Rome. My theory is that greece seems so weak initially that noone want to ally. Soon I'll be so strong that none will want to ally again, so I'm enjoying this respite.

    Sicily is still split three ways, but luckily there have been no war with Carthage. They haven't even been at war with Rome!

    Tactically the lack of cavalry is a huge problem. The best bet for a balanced army are probably Sarmatians, but they are a long way from your starting lands (you can get them in Pontus' starting lands though). Be wary of heavy cavalry turning your flanks - if that happens your only hope is a unit of Spartans nearby to turn the tide.
    Nope - no sig what so ever.

  20. #50
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Greeks have a great starting position and capable of sustained expansion in all directions. Their economy can well afford it too.

    All out blitz of Macedonians and Romans at start is the best. Beware of missile units though as they can maul your spartans from afar. Shield those form missiles and you are good.

    Hoplites are also possibly one of the strongest melee unit at large town level. Patch 1.2 made them not quite as vulnerable to switching to sword combat.

    Similarly, turning off phalanx make them as fast as other infantry so it's quite possible to flank with hoplites.

    Greek cav just blow and lack of shock cav is the worst part. You are forced to use archer/hoplite combo instead although militia cav is good for chaisng routers, screening infantry advance, and general harassment duties.

  21. #51

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I FIND THE BEST WAY IS TO GET AN ALLIANCE IN THE FIRST TURN OR SO WITH THE MACEDONIANS and then kick every one out of sicily and make it a huge production isle.
    By this time the bruti or scipii will have invaded , with macedoians reppel them and in the same turn try to bribe someone into atackking the macedonians .
    Now gather a army that you should have been building in sicily and invade capua, now split your the army from greece and attack both bruti citys.
    Hopefully the macedonians r to busy fighting whon ever u bribed to bother u .Anyway as soon as you can assult all citys and keep a small garrison in the bruti towns and move the rest of the army north building forts on the way.This armys job is to hold up the juli.
    Now the army in capua should resive renforcments from siicily and attack the senate. With an army full racked up and maybe more and with the juli being held up u should have no trouble in dealing with the senate.
    Then just go north and mop up the remains of the juli. by this time the macedoins will have probaly attacked.If u have any armie left go north and round the aegean while if u have a army in sparta attack corith and move north.
    u need athens for this to work as it stops the macedonians gettimg reinforce ments. theyll be in a sandwich.then when they have 1 place left offer cease fire and demand huge tribute. if they refuse attack and if they agee attack anyway.after that theres a whole world out there.





    Maybe its time to rewrite history.

  22. #52
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Sacking Corinth and getting the Statue of Zeus right away is a nice boost. Thessalonica can also become a hoplite factory quickly. Unified Greece is amazingly rich. You can easily take on the Romans and the Macedonians simultaneously while remaining defensive to the Carthaginians.

  23. #53
    Member Member RollingWave's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    But katank, I find taking all of the Balkans early on quiet difficult, which is why I usually settle with just taking Athens and Cornith, and then try to gain a firm holding on all fronts first before making the Advance... I find that the best way to weaken the Brutties threat on the Balkan is simply (taking a hint from ur Carthage blitz strat) sail from sciliy to sack their home towns .

    On another note, it is very important that you get trade rights with Egypt/Carthage and the Selucids, so you can acturally make use of ur trade bonus, also take Crete when you have some spare men or mone as it is a incrediable money machine once you get ports going. you probably will get into some trouble with the Selucids but you need their trade, espically since you probably wont' be trading with the Romans or Macedonians any time soon, sue for peace with Carthage and Selucids ASAP after taking Sardis and Sciliy.

  24. #54
    Senior Member Senior Member katank's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    The balkans are not that bad to take. You can beat Brutii to Apollonia and siege Corinth on the first turn. Ignore Athens and go straight for Larissa and then Thessalonica. With Pergamum force, push for Nicomedia and then Byzantium if Thrace didn't take it already. Rhodes can sit pretty and ship slingers to Italy or take Halicarnassus.

    Carthaginian blitz type strategy is good as Italy is often poorly defended but without elephants, it's not as effective. Conventional warfare to sack Messena first is probably better.

    Pump out hoplite and use some militia cav to screen infantry advances. Hoplites should have phalanx off unless responding to imminent threat. Take out enemy archers (Macedonians start with 2, Julii and Scipii each with 1) at all costs to save your spartans. Also consider using militia hops as fodder so your more expensive hoplites don't end up being pila fodder.

  25. #55
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I now know greece is not that hard to play at all. Im 15 years in got a good hold on Asia minor and will hopefully in the next few turns take the final scipii land on Scily. Luckly for all you greek players even on vh/vh the a.i still charges at your pikes if you get close enough. Try to get rid of the romans quick once they are post marius your dead. Still woried when egypt will come knocking on my door mind.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  26. #56

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    PM Romans aren't that amazing. They're not unbeatable but I know there is reason to be worried, just remember, they aren't unbeatable.

    I'm in a tough stalemate with the PM Scipii at the moment.

  27. #57
    Ultimate Member tibilicus's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    A new tatic i have tried is beat the roman armys with smaller more powerful ones. I went into a battle with 6 armoured hoplites 1 archers and a 1 generel. The romans then tend to get cockey and just through everything at you. Only to realize half way through they should of tried going round the back and flankinf. But hey by that time there to demorolized and peg it.


    "A lamb goes to the slaughter but a man, he knows when to walk away."

  28. #58

    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    Hey tibilicus, 250 posts and still a junior member??? I'm shocked.

    Anyway, as a response to the topic, the Romans tend to be very cocky/stupid (i prefer stupid) and when I faced them they let me pound them with missile cav before they made a move.

  29. #59
    Amanuensis Member pezhetairoi's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    This is me, establishing my presence here and awaiting the arrival of IliaDN and Franconicus. Let the Greeks begin world conquest soon!


    EB DEVOTEE SINCE 2004

  30. #60
    Patriot Member IliaDN's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Greek Cities

    I think I will start this camaign by the end of the week!

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