The Greek Cities

[Rome:Total Slayer]

Sicily will be a major battleground for many years, but should you take Messana from the Scipii, you will seriously weaken Rome's efforts against you there. The Carthaginian side of the island should also be easily taken after that. (just remember to keep an army away from Etna)

Trai as many assasins as possible to wipe out the Scipii Generals. eventualy they will be destroyed and taking sicily will be no problem.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Negative on the assassins. They're fun, but way to expensive in the context you describe. Save that for later.

You need to develop hold points and then focus on one opponent.

Reduce your Syracusan/Messanan garrisons to whatever minimum you need to hold the cities. Cartha and the Scips will keep trying, but you can keep hammering them down. You need to channel funds to get your home base cleared up.

In Greece, develop Byz as a defensive bastion -- Thrace will keep coming and you can keep killing them, use it as flypaper.

Keep forts in the two passes between Larissa and Athens/Corinth. Use them as a screen to develop a powerful field army.

Your field army should take Thermon as soon as its strong enough. Once you have Thermon, you can develop it as a bastion against the Brutii, who will then obligingly kill themselves on your walls.

Pergamum is also a must-hold, but don't try to attack out of there yet. Keep it for the economy.

If you can spare forces and it is still rebel, have the Rhodians acquire Halicarnassus -- good money there. Money is important since you need archers to thin out the phalanxes that will come against your hoplites.

Focus on building one very powerful field force and the replacements to keep it in the field and garrison its conquests quickly. When ready, head for Macedon and keep going until you have Bylazora. Then you can consolidate and choose a new strategic goal.

General thoughts: Build your ports and trade-spots, Greece can be rich (and needs to be since it has to purchase/rent all of its best missile troops, flankers, and heavy cavalry).

Disband your navy. While fighting multiple enemies, they will hammer your fleets in succession while ignoring other opponents. You are simply throwing money away. Don't bother with a navy until you can find a relatively quiet place to build a full stack of triremes. Then and only then venture out. yes, I know Greece is supposed to be a naval power, but you simply can't outbuild the ship-happy AI. Moreover, the AI will sit around not fighting -- even when at war -- unless your ships hove into view, in which case they will be hunted across half the Med.

[Telys]

I perferred abandoning certain settlements or a complete relocation. this way i am able by myself alittle time to build an army reclaim the lost settlements and gain some more on the way.

[Kralizec]

Once you're 5 years into the game, you should easily be able to afford the upkeep of a couple of assasins.
The trick is not to build masses of them, but to have 5-10 of them and train their experience. Target diplomats and enemy captains as both are usually easy to assasinate. Generally I don't bother with targets that give less then 80% chance on succes, because he might end up dead while you've paid so much attention in training his experience.
It shouldn't be long before you have a couple that can take on low-end family members, and better ones after that. Be careful though, if you fail the family member will become more resistant to assasination.
Also, use them along with spies. Use spies to infiltrate settlements and reveal all buildings and also lower public order. Then have the assasins destroy buildings that provide law, happiness or health bonuses.

Assasins and spies are fun

You should aim to keep Syracuse. It's a big city and money maker. Just build a healthy supply of militia hoplites, supported by a few peltasts maybe. Neither the Scipii or Carthage will use any phalanx units against you on Sicily, so if you manage them well your militia hoplites should hold the line for you (beware of that one unit of elephants though). Once you beat off the first few attacks it should be a walk in the park, and you can start preparing to take the rest of the island.
IIRC Athens is a rebel city at the beginning, taking it should be easy. Their garrison consists mainly of militia hoplites wich are terrible at defending walls, so build 2 siege towers and take it.

About the navy:
like Seamus said you can't outbuild the AI when it comes to ships, but it certainly does pay to keep a few triremes or better around. Greece can be a merchantile stronghold, but for that you have to ensure your ports don't get blockaded all the time. Just avoid confrontations at sea unless you have a comfortable advantage in numbers. Tip: if navies are stationed INSIDE the confines of a port, they can't be attacked!

[NeoSpartan]

I totally agree with the advice that has been given so far, as a matter of fact I could have used some of it when I started my Greek campain. But I would like to add a piece of advide that will really come helpfull, specially in the late game when you end up facing Pretorian Cohorts and Urban Cohorts.

-Have you noticed that when you put your hoplites in "Single Line" the units have small gaps in between them?? These gaps when you face a strong infantry are fatal! Because little by little enemy infatry starts to get between those gaps and eat up you phalanxes on the sides. (Happened to me when I faced the Julii on VH/VH)

-To avoid this, when you are lining up your forces before the battle, put you hoplites right next to eachother.

-Then put those hoplites into a Group, undo the group and put them into a group again. That way when you want your hoplites to advance, they won't break the formation.

Good luck in your Campain

[Kralizec]

-Have you noticed that when you put your hoplites in "Single Line" the units have small gaps in between them?? These gaps when you face a strong infantry are fatal! Because little by little enemy infatry starts to get between those gaps and eat up you phalanxes on the sides. (Happened to me when I faced the Julii on VH/VH)

I had totally forgotten about that. It's been a long time since I played vanilla RTW, I only play mods now (RTR and EB)

It's possible to do some simple text editing so that the game automaticly deploys phalanxes without gaps. Saves you the trouble.

[kburkert]

I always put loads of men on the sicilly. And concentrate on the east and greece.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

I found that even with a small number of troops in a settlement a large roman or cartaginian army can be defeated. Early in the game the romans and the carthaginians will attack your forces in syracuse. you need to build up an army as quick as possilble preferably hoplites. 9 or 10 units will do if combined with a few peltasts. First off let them take the walls hoplites were not desighn to fight on walls. Move all of your troops to the sqare and then march two or three units of hops. into the streets then form up in Phalanx formation. and let them come. If you had the cance to train some peltasts move them behind your phalaxes to loosen up the enemy before the charge headlong into your phalanx. they will kepp charging until their is oly a few men left it worked all the time for me.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

[QUOTE=Seamus Fermanagh]Negative on the assassins. They're fun, but way to expensive in the context you describe. Save that for later.

Your rigt but training one and killing lots of captins will raise the chance of killing a general which greatly increses subterfuge. I actually destroyed the Scippii using assassins. taking the rest of the Island was no problem. But the income was not very much if at all.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

Its very simple to play as the Greeks. I usually pull out of Syracuse all together and focus on Macedon, but that's just me...

[Kralizec]

Negative on the assassins. They're fun, but way to expensive in the context you describe. Save that for later.

Your rigt but training one and killing lots of captins will raise the chance of killing a general which greatly increses subterfuge. I actually destroyed the Scippii using assassins. taking the rest of the Island was no problem. But the income was not very much if at all.

That's probably because you're hostile to all the Roman factions plus Carthage. Otherwise those Sicilian settlements would have good incomes from naval trade.

[Telys]

Its very simple to play as the Greeks. I usually pull out of Syracuse all together and focus on Macedon, but that's just me...

I usually do the same thing, but sometimes I'll pull out of pergamum too, to avoid war with pontus while I concentrate on the greek mainland.

[saxon_maik]

I usually do the same thing, but sometimes I'll pull out of pergamum too, to avoid war with pontus while I concentrate on the greek mainland.

I tend to keep Pergamum for the trade with mainland Greece. Even a small garrison of hoplites and Cretan archers is sufficient to hold off large Pontic stacks - that is, if you don't mind fighting the battles yourself.

Last time I played the Greeks I decided to hang on to Syracuse and upgrade the barracks as fast as possible. I barely defeated the full Scipii stack that assaulted Syracuse. The Scipii losses were too costly and they decided to go after the easier(?) target of Lilybaeum, leaving Messana with a minimal garrison. I took Messana in the same turn as they took Lilybaeum from the Carthaginians. Needless to say, Lilybaeum fell a few turns later, leaving all of Sicily under Greek control. Best of all: no war with the Carthaginians and plenty of income by trading with them - at least for a while.

The Scipii did not give up on Carthage: they eventually took Caralis and Palma and then mustered enough forces to take Carthage and Thapsus. So much for Carthaginian military prowess...

[Garvanko]

Greeks are probably the easiest faction to play.

Armoured hoplites may be your bread and butter unit for most of the game, but they are superb nonetheless. And they look cool.

Abandoning Syracuse is a good strategy if you wish to avoid war with the Romans straightaway.

[Rome:Total Slayer]

That's probably because you're hostile to all the Roman factions plus Carthage. Otherwise those Sicilian settlements would have good incomes from naval trade.

Very true but the Carthaginians are wanting theyre part of the Island back and we just got to nutral

[Rome:Total Slayer]

building upahuge navy is extremely important it allows you to control were the enemy ships land. I usually build up two massive navys and then send one over to sicily to control the roman fleets.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

LMAO! I just started a Greek campaign and played for a while. I pulled out of Greece completely with every single unit from every town. I pulled out of Pergamum and Syracuse too. Then I took all troops and put them on boats and took them to Egypt. Then I unloaded all my troops and took over like 4 settlements in Egypt. It's my new home now! Funniest thing is those idiot Macedonians haven't taken the empty settlements yet.

[Glaucus]

rofl

[Craterus]

LMAO! I just started a Greek campaign and played for a while. I pulled out of Greece completely with every single unit from every town. I pulled out of Pergamum and Syracuse too. Then I took all troops and put them on boats and took them to Egypt. Then I unloaded all my troops and took over like 4 settlements in Egypt. It's my new home now! Funniest thing is those idiot Macedonians haven't taken the empty settlements yet.

The Macedonians aren't the idiots; the AI is.

[Alexanderofmacedon]

The Macedonians aren't the idiots; the AI is.

Yeah, yeah, smarty pants...

[Tellos Athenaios]

I've played the Greeks a few times, and I'd recommend: play defensive in Sicily (a fleet to intercept those Romans coming from Italy is absolutely a devastating weapon against their agressive expansion), take Corinth before the Macedonians have properly realised what's going on.

In my game a Macedonian diplomat would come to me and ask for a Ceasefire. I accepted and offered them trade rights too - it gave me time, cash and free men to save myself from Rome. After several failed attempts to take Syracuse, the Scipii had only a few units left in Messana. They had also tried to kick Carthage off the island without much succes, but they had managed to finish of most of the Carthaginians - including their elephants.

So... Sicily became an easy taking after, say, 10 turns of patience, army build up and closely manage the battles.

From then: I had basically won the game. (The rest was just about the right place, the right time)

[NeoSpartan]

IF you want to keep Syracuse go ahead. After defeding that city 2 times every turn I got tired of it, I abanoded it, and focused of beating Macedon, Pontus, Selunids.
I felt staying in Syracuse was wasting the little time I have to play.

[Avicenna]

A fleet and taking of one settlement is all that is required for keeping Syracuse.

If you're short of time, just auto resolve.

[gardibolt]

Personally, I like fighting defensive battles; offensive ones are too easy since the AI just sits there and takes it.

[Garvanko]

Syracuse?

Leave it. Keep the Romans off your back for a few years, consolidate and expand into Greece and Asia Minor, wait about 30 turns or so, then bitz Sicily while the Scipii are busy in Africa. It will be easy to take, and the AI will have done alot of the ground work in developing the cities.

Then use it as a staging ground for you eventual conquest of Italy.

[limitedwhole]

Although I have never played the Greek cities personally, abandoning Syracuse sounds like a really bad idea. It has GRAIN... It will grow your cities...expand your tax base...allow you to recruit more troops without keeping your cities small...and build better buildings earlier in the game. Grain the MOST IMPORTANT RESOURCE in the game and you start sitting right on it. I would never abandon this city. Not only does it prevent you from reaping the benefits of the grain but it will allow th scipii and most likely the brutii as well to grow off it. Try making an alliance with the scipii early to get them to attack Carthage. Hopefully they will bloody each other leaving the rest of the island for the taking.

[Tellos Athenaios]

[QUOTE=limitedwhole]Try making an alliance with the scipii early to get them to attack Carthage. QUOTE]

There are basically three reasons why that isn't going to work very well.
First is that the Scipii are extremely hostile towards you, because that's predefined in the strat.txt file. Second: the (in early stage) 'almighty' senate will send them after you anyway, because they are extremely hostile towards you too. Third if it worked, then, after an unknown number of turns, you would still find yourself in the firing line - this time because the Punic War is initially fought on Sicily - and that war needs to be funded somehow.

And even if all this doesn't apply - you're still not sure about the Brutii. The Brutii will probably attack you either in the Greek mainland, or on Sicily (yes, they also seem to like the great swimming pool the sea in front of my Sicilian coast has become). And Carthage doesn't just sit around - waiting for the Romans to slaughter them - it also would welcome an extra province on Sicily.

Thus the Greeks can enjoy the full attention of basically all the peoples on their borders.

[gardibolt]

Although I have never played the Greek cities personally, abandoning Syracuse sounds like a really bad idea. It has GRAIN... It will grow your cities...expand your tax base...allow you to recruit more troops without keeping your cities small...and build better buildings earlier in the game. Grain the MOST IMPORTANT RESOURCE in the game and you start sitting right on it. I would never abandon this city. Not only does it prevent you from reaping the benefits of the grain but it will allow th scipii and most likely the brutii as well to grow off it. Try making an alliance with the scipii early to get them to attack Carthage. Hopefully they will bloody each other leaving the rest of the island for the taking.

Yeah, I would never, ever intentionally abandon any province, least of all one on an island with natural resources. You would be cutting your income at a time when you need it most.

Alliances with Scipii are next to impossible; even if you got one it wouldn't last. Your best bet is not instigating hostilities, building up Syracuse to be a less-tempting target than the other two cities, and hope they duke it out to the point that they can fall beneath your heel.

[limitedwhole]

[QUOTE=Tellos Athenaios]

Try making an alliance with the scipii early to get them to attack Carthage. QUOTE]

There are basically three reasons why that isn't going to work very well.
First is that the Scipii are extremely hostile towards you, because that's predefined in the strat.txt file. Second: the (in early stage) 'almighty' senate will send them after you anyway, because they are extremely hostile towards you too. Third if it worked, then, after an unknown number of turns, you would still find yourself in the firing line - this time because the Punic War is initially fought on Sicily - and that war needs to be funded somehow.

And even if all this doesn't apply - you're still not sure about the Brutii. The Brutii will probably attack you either in the Greek mainland, or on Sicily (yes, they also seem to like the great swimming pool the sea in front of my Sicilian coast has become). And Carthage doesn't just sit around - waiting for the Romans to slaughter them - it also would welcome an extra province on Sicily.

Thus the Greeks can enjoy the full attention of basically all the peoples on their borders.

First off arguing that EVENTUALLY you will come to be at odds with the romans is not a good reason for not making an alliance. If you get five turns, of not being attacked at Syracuse that will give you the ability to build a fleet at Syracuse, upgrade the ports and markets, and ship reinforcements from Sparta. Just because war will ineveitably happens doesn't mean that breathing room is pointless.

i also find it hard ot belive that you could get not an alliance. And even without paying them. At the worst you might have to put up some map info or a small tribute which would be cancelled if they attack. In fact offering a tribute in exchange for alliance may be teh best option as giving up money which could ufnd their war with Carthage in order ot lose troops at your gates will not be appealing.

Furthermore, the scipii want to go west. Sure maybe Sparta is within reach in the early game, but certainly your territories on the other side of the agean are safe from roman hands until at least turns 10-15. The scipii want to fight Carthage more than they want to fight you.

Finally, even if all this failed, I would still not pull out. I would bloody those bastards as much as possible and hold on to that grain as long as possible. This will give them problems with the Carthagianians and inevitably make it easier for you to retake Syracuse. So if all this failed I would try to get an alliance with the Carthaginians against the Scipii.

Furthermore, with SCyracuse you can produce a crap load of ships (Triremes after turn 3 i might add) right in their realm of control. The scipii cannot put pressure on you if you have naval parrity.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Naval parity with the Scipii is possible, but naval parity with Rome is not.

The AI always has a build advantage, and is programmed to churn fleets. You will be fighting the Scips, SPQR, sometimes the Brutes, and fairly often the Poeni-derms too. Greece cannot build enough ships to match all of these -- though I concur that your fleet can do great good by smashing 1 or 2 fully loaded Roman flotillae prior to getting batted around the Central Med.

I too try to defend Syracuse, and ship over my Spartans to help if I can. If you can fend off the initial Cartha or Roman thrust with a timely sally, you can get some good troops over there (Spartans, stop briefly at Kydonia and get archers/slingers). With a few top notch units added to their start forces, Syracuse can be a rock against which armies will break. Let them come to you and mete out death with missiles from the walls and spears in the streets. Bleed them a while, and Carthage will fade as Caralis falls and the Numidians sweep in from the desert. The Scipii will fade because their two provinces cannot sustain the scope of offensive required -- and unlike the Julii or Bruti they have not picked up new terrain. But DON'T auto-resolve -- you may win but find out that your Spartans must've camped in front of an enemy javelin depot. Auto-resolve casualties will kill your chances.

As to the homeland, you'll need to accept the loss of Thermon -- the Brutes are simply too persistent -- but you can make them pay a good price and buy time to acquire Corinth, Athens, Halicarnassus, and Kydonia. Then fort up the Peleponse and the Attic highlands (and ceasefire with Macedon). You should have the beginnings of a powerful trade zone to defend and improve. Any battle where they have to come at your spears to win gives you the advantage. Once this area starts turning out good profit, you have a good economy, excellent temple bonuses, and one of the better hiring zones for mercs to augment your spears and mediocre cavalry. The beginnings of good things. Now, if only you could bribe some Macedonian cavalry....