Amazons

[Colovion]

Merc! They have found Warrior Woman tombs! "Nothing" to do with history, you say?

He knows - it's their Hollywoodized theme he hates.

As do I.

[Oaty]

Well I took a look at that and and just to get there takes 8 turns and thats from the entrance to the province to there city. So if your going after that territory, you basically have nothing better to keep your armies busy.

Steppe Mercanary simple solution: never buy another totalwar product again

[Steppe Merc]

By the rate the games are going, I may well have to follow up that advice. And I know they found the tombs, but they weren't anything like their depected. And it's not easy to mod! Do you know how to do it? They never told us! So it's not as easy to fix as you think.

[LittleRaven]

And it's not easy to mod! Do you know how to do it? They never told us! So it's not as easy to fix as you think.

Of course it's easy to mod. I've been tweaking balance for days now. It's just text files. Grab notebook and get started.

Hop over to the Mod forum or the Workshop at twcenter and you'll find posts explaining how to do all kinds of things. Hell, there's already a 'realism mod' in progress here. People have changed names, stats, what starts where, faction icons. They've already started adding new units!

Holy crap, Steppe, what kind of standards do you have? The game hasn't been out for two weeks, the developers are still on vacation and so haven't had time to write official explanations, and still we have dozens of mods affecting all kinds of things. That doesn't fit your definition of easy to mod?!?

[Steppe Merc]

Wow. Names and stats. I'm talking about totally new skins, totally new provinces, etc. I figured out all the text files to. I'm talking about the more important things. Have you made totally new units? Totally new factions? If so, please share because I have yet to figure out how.

[Spartiate]

I myself would prefer the game without the non-historical units BUT i understand that CA needed to appeal to the wider audience to bring in the cash to keep making this series of games which we ALL love.
The bone that they threw to us who want a more realistic game is the fact that the game can be modded so easily.Just look at Medieval which was fairly accurate compared to Rome.They read this site and see that we complain about a lot of issues and mod them to suit ourselves anyway.I have no doubt that the likes of Wes,BKB andthe LOrdz will make many great mods which we will all enjoy.
Hurrah for CA.Without you we wouldn't even have this opportunity to voice our complaints.

[Steppe Merc]

Here we go again. Is it so moddable? Sure you can rename stuff, but it was just as easy to do that in medival. Has anyone made a unit entirely from scratch? And I have no respect for the wider audience, and CA loses credibilty when it apeals to them.

[Spartiate]

I won't say any more on the issue then after this then Merc.How many more epic games do you think CA could afford to make(taking 2 years at a time)if they simply made them for people like you and i who want Historical accuracy and nothing else.Unfortunately credibility will only get them so far.Try and remember before you reply that i agree with you but i recognise that it is simply never going to happen.Wider audience is the cash they need(and want)

[LittleRaven]

Has anyone made a unit entirely from scratch?

I look forward to playing the games you make, Merc. I really do. I'm very curious how on earth you're going to make one that gives people the ability to make an entirely new unit with days of release. Should be interesting.

And I have no respect for the wider audience, and CA loses credibilty when it apeals to them.

With who? With you? I'm sure that will keep them up nights. As Spartiate said, how exactly is CA supposed to stay in business if it makes games that appeal soley to the 20 people in the Europa Barbarorum thread?

You'd really rather have no Total War at all than Total War with Amazons?

[Steppe Merc]

I am not making any mods. I'm trying to help the Europa Barborum mod, that you obviously don't care for. You disagree with me that fine. Let's just stop here, because I don't think it's helping anyone.

[LittleRaven]

I am not making any mods. I'm trying to help the Europa Barborum mod, that you obviously don't care for. You disagree with me that fine. Let's just stop here, because I don't think it's helping anyone.

As you wish. I'm sorry you feel you got cheated by Rome. If it makes you feel any better, I know lots of people who will give you a very good price for it. Drop me a line if you're looking to offload your copy.

[Orda Khan]

yeh ok guys ... what do you say we leave it there then? People have opinions and discussing them rationally is healthy. Sarcastic digs just encourage one upmanship and then the subject is long lost among the flames. Don't lets fall out over this.

It's early days yet and I have every faith in the genious's who reside in these forums

........Orda

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

Of course it's easy to mod. I've been tweaking balance for days now. It's just text files. Grab notebook and get started.

Not stats. That I can do in a minute or two. 3d models and skins. That is the hard part. And there is no official CA RTW 3d skinning editor for that.

Holy crap, Steppe, what kind of standards do you have? The game hasn't been out for two weeks, the developers are still on vacation and so haven't had time to write official explanations, and still we have dozens of mods affecting all kinds of things. That doesn't fit your definition of easy to mod?!?

Nope. Read above...

[Aymar de Bois Mauri]

As Spartiate said, how exactly is CA supposed to stay in business if it makes games that appeal soley to the 20 people in the Europa Barbarorum thread?

Wrong. Everyday RTS players are just interested in the graphics and gameplay. Accordingly, it won't matter if the game is historical accurate or not. They won't care if it is or if it is not. Graphics galore and great action is what they want.

But the hardcore History interested people pay attention to those details. The time spent by CA to do the game would be the exact same. So, instead of just appealing to the masses, why not to the masses and the people concerned with Historical accuracy?

BTW, there aren't just 20 people at the ORG interested in History. Most of them don't post at EB, because they aren't involved in the project. That is just for the developers of EB. So, again, you have a twisted perspective of things...

[hoom]

Uhm, have you guys actually looked at whats there now in real reality?
Thats where Moscow is

[LittleRaven]

Wrong. Everyday RTS players are just interested in the graphics and gameplay. Accordingly, it won't matter if the game is historical accurate or not. They won't care if it is or if it is not. Graphics galore and great action is what they want.

Exhibit A.

Everyone loves good graphics, true. But an awful lot of people love to throw heads. Would a historically accurate Total War offer that? Because if not, Goofball puts off his purchase, and CA loses money. And there are a lot of Goofballs out there. (boy did that not come out sounding right!)

But the hardcore History interested people pay attention to those details. The time spent by CA to do the game would be the exact same. So, instead of just appealing to the masses, why not to the masses and the people concerned with Historical accuracy?

Because the people who are concerned with Historical accuracy are the type to mod the game anyway. (because even if CA made the game exactly as the Europa Barborum people wanted it, I'm sure the historical group over at TWCenter would take issue with some things and want them changed. History, after all, is not an exact science.) Notice that Merc isn't going to sell his copy....he's going to participate in the Europa Barborum mod. We've all seen the incredible things modders can do with TW games. Rome will be just the same. We'll end up with thousands of versions of Rome, and at least one should suit the EB crowd just fine. But CA has to be concerned with the version that it gets paid for, and that version has to draw in the casual user. And the casual user wants Headhurlers.

BTW, there aren't just 20 people at the ORG interested in History. Most of them don't post at EB, because they aren't involved in the project. That is just for the developers of EB. So, again, you have a twisted perspective of things...

Can’t help it, it’s the bifocals. I think most everyone who plays TW is interested in history to a certain extent. Playing Rome has already caused me to add The Twelve Caesars to my Amazon list. But I'm more interested in a game being fun than in strict historical accuracy. If a game causes me to want to learn more about an era, I consider it a success in the history department. Most importantly, I'm interested in CA making lots of money so that can make the next generation of TW games. If that means appealing to the masses, hey baby, call me 'Kingfish.'

[The Witch-King]

Heh, I must say I actually find their inclusion to be amusing. Oh well, to each their own shall we say? Another easter egg, if you can call it that, is the fact that one of the towns near the Baltic coast is called Domus Dulcis Domus, aka Home Sweet Home for those who are less fluent in the Latin language. ;) :p

[andrewt]

I'm actually seeing the Amazons differently from the other inaccurate stuff. When an entire faction is inaccurate like the Egyptians, I don't like it at all. When it is a few units here and there like the headhurlers, I'm a little more ok with it as long as that unit doesn't dominate gameplay. If it's used occassionally, that's fine.

However, the Amazons are so out of the way that they're basically an easter egg. Easter egg's are put there by bored developers when they have a break. They're usually there to keep their sanity around. They're not meant to be in the spirit of the game because they aren't really part of the game in the strict sense. Warcraft3 had Starcraft units as easter eggs in various hidden places and you can't tell me that sci-fi units are not out of place in that game, even though it's all make believe.

[Steppe Merc]

Again, if you play as the Scythians, or even the Parthians and decide to take over Russia, then it's hard not to miss them. Again, would it be okay to have a tribe of one eyed giants in some out of the way island because not to many people actually will get there? And don't tell me it's different, because the way they show the Amazons they are just as fantasy as Cyclops. Heck, even the real units in the Scythian army that are women are total fantasy.

[Orda Khan]

It is unfortunate when we find some unit, faction or whatever that cannot be avoided but, being a realism buff, I have countered this since STW by only building realistic units in my armies. This however does not stop the AI from churning out such ridiculous units as Kensai. I would dearly love a totally accurate game but I can also see that money makes the world go round. This whole issue is far less important to me than silly upgrades that enable 12 men to defeat 100, after all, in SP ( if the game is nicely moddable ofc ) the rubbish can be modded out. I think this will be the case with RTW

....Orda