The AI of Friendly Reinforcements - Suicidal Generals

[Jambo]

Couldn't find the topic based on this, but I think one exists... anyway, I have a potential short term solution (assuming CA intend to fix it) to the suicidal AI generals of friendly reinforcements that everyone seems to have problems with:

What would happen if the offensive capabilities of the General units were seriously modded down? Although obviously not ideal, at least this way maybe the AI won't use them so willingly in the front line or in suicidal charges?!

Anyone care to test, since I don't have the game yet (UK)?

[DisruptorX]

The problem isn't that the unit is particularly powerful. They will charge elite pikemen, who have much higher stats, with your generals. Its just horrid AI.

[Jambo]

Presumably though, the AI is charging them first because they are amongst the toughest unit in the army's retinue??

However, if this doesn't work, then try something alternative like giving them the ability to skirmish or make them a missile unit (shooting arrows). I know none of these are ideal, but if it relieves the suicidal generals then at least it's a temporary solution until a patch is made.

[Bob the Insane]

If the AI controled allies are lead by a Captain rather than a General is he just as suicidal???

[desdichado]

If the AI controled allies are lead by a Captain rather than a General is he just as suicidal???

no in this situation the reinforcements come under your generals control and if # units goes past 20 they become off map reinforcements same as in mtw. The AI only kicks in when reinforcements led by an actual general.

[Bob the Insane]

Thanks for the reply...

[Sir Robin]

This is the most confusing part for me.

I have experienced some downright devious opponents at times.

However even multi-star led allies behave like imbeciles.

I truly wonder if this is actually a bug.

Perhaps the allied AI routines are truncated somewhere preventing them from accessing the full decision tree available.

I would imagine that the allied AI would use the same AI coding used by opposing AI.

It just seems that either the ally cannot handle a "support" role, or perhaps the ally is attempting to access the same decision tree in use by your opponent and cannot.

Just seems wierd...

[Kraxis]

Ever since people began mentioning this, I have been certain that it is a bug.
If it is a feature then it is there to weaken us, but it does a horrible job at that (or at least that is what people seem to say), it kills... And the fact that the player get to control the smaller army and/or the captain rather than the general... well isn't that just odd?
The coding must have gone wrong somewhere.

[Bob the Insane]

Seems amazing that QA and beta testing would not have picked it up...

[LittleRaven]

This has got to be a bug. The AI may have its quirks, but it's at least mostly competant the majority of the time. (For which CA deserves some praise! Anyone remember the AI of Medieval on first release?) The AI reinforcements don't use any of that. They just throw themselves screaming on the first unit they come across regardless of the situation. I'm confident this will be fixed in a patch.

[Spino]

Couldn't find the topic based on this, but I think one exists... anyway, I have a potential short term solution (assuming CA intend to fix it) to the suicidal AI generals of friendly reinforcements that everyone seems to have problems with:

What would happen if the offensive capabilities of the General units were seriously modded down? Although obviously not ideal, at least this way maybe the AI won't use them so willingly in the front line or in suicidal charges?!

Anyone care to test, since I don't have the game yet (UK)?

That's a nice short term solution but this really needs to be addressed in a patch. I remember when the generals in MTW used to be rather suicidal in nature and enough people complained about it that CA felt compelled to address it in a patch. Eventually we had AI controlled general units hanging back and acting as a tactical reserve instead of charging headlong into a wall of spears.

As far as the RTW tactical AI is concerned it seems like CA rolled back the clock to a pre-patched version of MTW for certain aspects of its behavior. This is pure speculation on my part but it almost seems like the MTW team failed to keep the RTW team fully informed about certain issues (AI related or otherwise) in MTW that the community asked (sometimes demanding) to be fixed via patches. Perhaps if the RTW team had known about the TW community's displeasure with the suicidal generals in MTW they would have not let it slip by?

[LittleRaven]

As far as the RTW tactical AI is concerned it seems like CA rolled back the clock to a pre-patched version of MTW for certain aspects of its behavior. This is pure speculation on my part but it almost seems like the MTW team failed to keep the RTW team fully informed about certain issues (AI related or otherwise) in MTW that the community asked (sometimes demanding) to be fixed via patches. Perhaps if the RTW team had known about the TW community's displeasure with the suicidal generals in MTW they would have not let it slip by?

It's more than that, though, because normal AI generals aren't nearly so bad. There's something particularly stupid about reinforcement generals, which what makes me think this is simply a bug.

[Spino]

It's more than that, though, because normal AI generals aren't nearly so bad. There's something particularly stupid about reinforcement generals, which what makes me think this is simply a bug.

Yes, reinforcement generals defy all logic with their maddening rush to get into action. I have yet to see one execute an attack with any kind of effectiveness, even when possessing a qualitatively or numerically comparable or superior force. I think the developers saw how long it takes for reinforcements to make their way from the map edge to the action so they tweaked the reinforcement AI to expedite its army's participation.

The normal generals are bad, period. I still think the 'regular tactical AI' has an unhealthy obsession with wasting its general unit in front line action. It wouldn't be so bad if the general unit(s) consistently took up a flanking position with its other cavalry units but because of its central positioning prior to the onset of battle most of the time it's the ONLY cavalry unit in the midst of an infantry melee and this reason alone contributes to its decreased life expectancy. Once the general unit's charge effect is over it has to hack it out and then it's only a matter of time before he's surrounded by infantry and killed.