Missile accuracy vs. kill speed?

[LittleRaven]

Wow, Osbot. I definately haven't seen anything like that. Sounds like archers may need to be toned down period...speed mod or no.

[Kraxis]

5-6 volleys? GAH! How many units was that? I guess it is also good to upgrade armour (or is to too hot for that?).

[Osbot]

I can think of 2 battles off hand. One was a 2 Phalanx/2skirmisher/1General army for me. I was fighting 1 nile spears and 2 egypt bowman and a general unit. Within 6 volleys my levy pikes were reduced into the 60's.

Another battle, MUCH larger. I had around 8 Militia Phalanxes all fairly heavily upgraded 2 cretan archers some eastern infantry, 4 merc units worth I believe + my general.

The army that attacked me was much smaller, I believe it had about 5 units of spear total, 2 were nile. Rest of the force were archers/chariots/skirmishers. I did my best with the cretans but at 160 men per unit, facing off against 4+ 240 man egyptian archer units. Soon my cretans were reduced and then my phalanx formations ate it. When he finally charged with his infantry there wasnt much left of mine. So I sent my army on a suicide charge and ran my faction heir out of there ;p

That was the point where I thought my Seleucid campaign was over. However I came back with MASSED cavalry including some cataphracts I bribed from the Armenians and lots and lots of archers of my own. I had one Cav heavy army, 6 units of greek cav + 1 cata and my general supported by phalanxes. Second army was levy phalanxes/phalanx pikemen with 7 Archers and a General. Used those 2 forces to wipe out a couple huge egyptian armies and since then things have been going smoothly ;p

[WhiteSkull]

I can think of 2 battles off hand. One was a 2 Phalanx/2skirmisher/1General army for me. I was fighting 1 nile spears and 2 egypt bowman and a general unit. Within 6 volleys my levy pikes were reduced into the 60's.

um so 320 or is it 480? archers fire 6 rounds at 240 men, and you think they should only do a small amount of damage?

They fired 1920 or 2880, depending on there size, and your upset they only killed 190men?

[Osbot]

um so 320 or is it 480? archers fire 6 rounds at 240 men, and you think they should only do a small amount of damage?

They fired 1920 or 2880, depending on there size, and your upset they only killed 190men?

Um, where did I say I was upset or anything of the sort. I was simply relaying my experiences to people who had asked.

Please bro, if you're going to try and troll or flame, first learn to read, then learn to comprehend.

Since what I said seems to complicated for you. Greek archer units on the HUGE size have 160 men. Im not sure how you got this confused seeing that I had NO archers in that first battle I recalled. Egyptian Stock archers come with 240 men. I clearly pointed out my archers 2 units had 160 men each. The Egyptians had 4+ 240 man archer units plus chariots and skirmishers.

You can count on lightly armored troops taking 20+ casualties in a single volley from one unit of archers with the number diminishing each subsequent volley. Archers seem to lose some effectiveness once you get more heavily armored troops.

So lets recap for the comprehension challenged.

1) Archers are devastating.
2) Fighting a heavy archer army with no counter of your own is a very steep uphill battle if you can even call it that.
3) I am perfectly fine with this, nor was I ever upset, or gave any sort of impression that I was upset.
4) You can do simple math GOOD JOB heres a gold star. *

[Red Harvest]

Osbot,

I suspected as much, although I've not faced much yet except for the Numidian cavalry (and they really tear me up unless I have lots of cav.) I've not yet gotten to Eastern factions. Most of what I've read indicates that missile units alone were not all that effective vs. phalanx. They could wear them down over time, but it was far from quick. I've been bothered by the high kill rates of my own missile units. Slingers seem about as effective as arbalesters were in MTW. I really dread seeing archers on the field and so far have only faced a few units. I generally sacrifice a cav unit or two to chase them off and kill them.

A combined army should be best of course as Alexander and Hannibal proved (and Scipio adopted), but in this day and age (before crossbows and stirrups) heavy infantry should be relatively hard to crack.