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Thread: Carthage Tip: Make a Honey Pot
I've had good luck as the Carthaginians so far, thought I would share early strategy.
1. First thing I did on turn 2 or 3 was march an army into the Scipii's Messana territory and take it (think I had elephants so I could ram down the gates on the first turn, no siege.) Use some naval reinforcement. Then I held off the following assaults. The Brutii and Scipii attacked it primarily.
2. Put diplomats/spies in your cities in Sicily to keep that Greek diplomat from bribing everyone.
3. If you are playing "very hard," the Greek's will attack from Syracuse despite a trade agreement. They will be nearly all hoplites in a big stack. Cav army will deal with them (flank them individually.) Take Syracuse after that army is crushed. After doing this I got the diplomat to agree to a ceasefire by giving him 2,000 denari as compensation for Syracuse (he wanted Syracuse back as condition of ceasefire.)
4. The Honey Pot: Sardinia. After repulsing various Roman attempts at retaking Messana, they gave up. They went after Sardinia next as I expected. I would sneak out the back of the city and then kill off the armies (don't want to do sallies if you can avoid them.) I reinforced navally with cav when I could. The general rapidly hit 7 stars--can't remember if he was already there as a family member at the start or if he was one or two stars and I moved him their to gain experience. Scipii and Julii hit it with very small forces the first few times making for easy cav victories. Before long I had a good size cav army with plenty of experience. I've probably defended it about 30 times now... This keeps the Romans busy and out of Sicily while I conquer elsewhere. Keep an eye on the ships, sometimes a huge army will be in a lone boat (Scipii do this.) You might be able to dart in and sink it before it lands.
5. Get Cordoba on a war footing quickly. Buy mercs, because the Spanish and Gauls are coming.
1. First thing I did on turn 2 or 3 was march an army into the Scipii's Messana territory and take it (think I had elephants so I could ram down the gates on the first turn, no siege.) Use some naval reinforcement. Then I held off the following assaults. The Brutii and Scipii attacked it primarily.
2. Put diplomats/spies in your cities in Sicily to keep that Greek diplomat from bribing everyone.
3. If you are playing "very hard," the Greek's will attack from Syracuse despite a trade agreement. They will be nearly all hoplites in a big stack. Cav army will deal with them (flank them individually.) Take Syracuse after that army is crushed. After doing this I got the diplomat to agree to a ceasefire by giving him 2,000 denari as compensation for Syracuse (he wanted Syracuse back as condition of ceasefire.)
4. The Honey Pot: Sardinia. After repulsing various Roman attempts at retaking Messana, they gave up. They went after Sardinia next as I expected. I would sneak out the back of the city and then kill off the armies (don't want to do sallies if you can avoid them.) I reinforced navally with cav when I could. The general rapidly hit 7 stars--can't remember if he was already there as a family member at the start or if he was one or two stars and I moved him their to gain experience. Scipii and Julii hit it with very small forces the first few times making for easy cav victories. Before long I had a good size cav army with plenty of experience. I've probably defended it about 30 times now... This keeps the Romans busy and out of Sicily while I conquer elsewhere. Keep an eye on the ships, sometimes a huge army will be in a lone boat (Scipii do this.) You might be able to dart in and sink it before it lands.
5. Get Cordoba on a war footing quickly. Buy mercs, because the Spanish and Gauls are coming.
Good pointers here.
Frankly, I found the Romans so aggressive that I took the fight to them. Sent an army of cav, two elephant units and a bunch of the pasty-faced teenagers we Carthiginians call "infantry" and took out everything south of Rome. Destroyed buildings, exterminated populations, you know, generally had a good time. Even managed to eliminate the Scipii.
Now I'll probably float that army back to Sicily and leave the Romans to rue the day they messed with Hasdrubal.
Do we ever get decent infantry? Is the Sacred Band worth the bronze its shields are made of? This is the one thing that's bumming me as a Carthiginian warmonger. Oh, and I guess we never get proper archers.
Now I'll probably float that army back to Sicily and leave the Romans to rue the day they messed with Hasdrubal.
Do we ever get decent infantry? Is the Sacred Band worth the bronze its shields are made of? This is the one thing that's bumming me as a Carthiginian warmonger. Oh, and I guess we never get proper archers.
Originally Posted by Lemurmania:
Do we ever get decent infantry? Is the Sacred Band worth the bronze its shields are made of? This is the one thing that's bumming me as a Carthiginian warmonger. Oh, and I guess we never get proper archers.
You don't like the Poeni infantry? Or perhaps you are referring to a traditional infantry like sword/shield? True the Iberians are no legionary, but they are swift and can get a flank or rear on a slower heavy infantry. But no way I would use them to form a battle line either. I don't see making too many Sacred Bands as you note the expense. Do we ever get decent infantry? Is the Sacred Band worth the bronze its shields are made of? This is the one thing that's bumming me as a Carthiginian warmonger. Oh, and I guess we never get proper archers.
As for archers, the stat file shows carthagian archers in it. Maybe you have to build an archery range in a specific region to get them? I'm going to find out soon enough as my campagin is progressing.
Originally Posted by Praylak:
You don't like the Poeni infantry? Or perhaps you are referring to a traditional infantry like sword/shield? ... As for archers, the stat file shows carthagian archers in it. Maybe you have to build an archery range in a specific region to get them?
I haven't build the Poeni yet, still fairly early in my campaign. I went for a really early pre-emptive strike against the Roman weapons of mass destruction, firgured I'd cripple 'em early. Funny side-effect -- the Julii are now allied with the Gauls.You don't like the Poeni infantry? Or perhaps you are referring to a traditional infantry like sword/shield? ... As for archers, the stat file shows carthagian archers in it. Maybe you have to build an archery range in a specific region to get them?
I guess I would love to have at least one kind of heavy sword/axemen, but I'll live without. I have some sort of irrational prejudice against spears. On the battle map, I just want to go offense all the time, so it's my own problem. Loving the elephants -- very dangerous to everyone, including me, but mostly to the other guy.
As for archers, okay, I'll build up more ranges and hope for the best. Slingers are okay, but they don't really do the job the way I like it done.
Thanks!
You don't get any infantry worth even building for a very long time. With Carthage I use light cavalry almost exclusively. Now that I've eliminated Numidia and Spain, I'm starting to gear up to invade Roman lands. I still can't build much in the way of infantry yet. I should be able to build Sacred Band Infantry in a few turns.
Lemurmania, I see. I got no real preference, I mean every faction is cool to me. I use what they got, and it usually seems to work out. But hey who doesn't like a big sword? We'll have to verify with the History Gurka's here, but I think the Phalanx was the soldier of the day for Carthage. Your probably going enjoy playing Gaul then.
Technology wise, I'm where you are now Red, but I'm still working on Spain. Just waiting for the last Elephant to be built and we are on our way. But ya I own the southwestern corner on the map, killing Numidia.
Say Red, do you have a level 4 or 5 Archery range built in Numidia? That would be the city of Cirta. I do not, but I'm going to unless you say otherwise.
export_descr_unit.txt
type carthaginian archer
dictionary carthaginian_archer ; Archers
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Light_1
soldier carthaginian_archer, 40, 0, 0.8
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 2, arrow, 120, 30, missile, archery, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 3, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 2, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat -1
stat_ground 2, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 4, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 190, 170, 20, 30, 190
ownership numidia
Whats the deal with Numidia as "ownership"? Built in Numidia?
Technology wise, I'm where you are now Red, but I'm still working on Spain. Just waiting for the last Elephant to be built and we are on our way. But ya I own the southwestern corner on the map, killing Numidia.
Say Red, do you have a level 4 or 5 Archery range built in Numidia? That would be the city of Cirta. I do not, but I'm going to unless you say otherwise.
export_descr_unit.txt
type carthaginian archer
dictionary carthaginian_archer ; Archers
category infantry
class missile
voice_type Light_1
soldier carthaginian_archer, 40, 0, 0.8
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, can_sap
formation 1.6, 2, 3.2, 4, 3, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 2, arrow, 120, 30, missile, archery, piercing, none, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 3, 2, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, knife, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 2, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat -1
stat_ground 2, 1, 0, -1
stat_mental 4, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 190, 170, 20, 30, 190
ownership numidia
Whats the deal with Numidia as "ownership"? Built in Numidia?
Praylak,
No, I haven't built any archery upgrades yet (just have some lower ones that I "inherited" from their previous inhabitants.) I've been relying on Balearic mercs. Since I'm getting ready for finally using some infantry other than in a minor support role, I probably should try to get some archers.
Not sure what that ownership thing is about! I'll be watching to see what it does.
I did do a ship foray recently and noticed Crete is in rebel hands. I think I'm going to claim it and see what I get. I don't think the AI does much in the way of naval invasions, because it should have been conquered long ago. Anyway, this might provide some very useful merc archers or something. Crete might be on the early shopping list for future campaigns.
No, I haven't built any archery upgrades yet (just have some lower ones that I "inherited" from their previous inhabitants.) I've been relying on Balearic mercs. Since I'm getting ready for finally using some infantry other than in a minor support role, I probably should try to get some archers.
Not sure what that ownership thing is about! I'll be watching to see what it does.
I did do a ship foray recently and noticed Crete is in rebel hands. I think I'm going to claim it and see what I get. I don't think the AI does much in the way of naval invasions, because it should have been conquered long ago. Anyway, this might provide some very useful merc archers or something. Crete might be on the early shopping list for future campaigns.
The Brutii own Crete in my current campaign. Romans were really aggressive.
Well I'm a ways off from building a level 5 archery range in Cirta. Been restricting its population growth. I'm gonna let it grow now and see. If you do happen to build one there, please post results. Thanks, and good luck in your campaign.
Well I'm a ways off from building a level 5 archery range in Cirta. Been restricting its population growth. I'm gonna let it grow now and see. If you do happen to build one there, please post results. Thanks, and good luck in your campaign.
I searched the colosseum pages before posting and I am glad I did. Recently as Carthage I did something right. The first post says it all.
Ownership means which factions get to use those units in custom battles - Remember carthaginan is also a culture group consisting of Carthage and Numidia so those "carthaginian" archers are actually Numidian.
Sorry to disapoint but Carthage do not get archers so get yourself over to Kydonia and recruit some creten mercs or learn to fight without them (or of course mod the game to allow them to build archers)
Sorry to disapoint but Carthage do not get archers so get yourself over to Kydonia and recruit some creten mercs or learn to fight without them (or of course mod the game to allow them to build archers)
Elephants do, of course, have archers on their back......
The lack of archers doesn't bother me though, as archers don't play a huge role in my armies, Carthagenian or otherwise. As Carthage, I like to build a lot of cavalry, with infantry in a secondary role, but that's just me.
The lack of archers doesn't bother me though, as archers don't play a huge role in my armies, Carthagenian or otherwise. As Carthage, I like to build a lot of cavalry, with infantry in a secondary role, but that's just me.
Another tip,
The Brutii always leave their cities undefended, once you stop the Roman attacks on Sicily, quickly take the 2 undefended Brutii cities, from their you can mount an attack on the rest of Italy.
The Brutii always leave their cities undefended, once you stop the Roman attacks on Sicily, quickly take the 2 undefended Brutii cities, from their you can mount an attack on the rest of Italy.
Originally Posted by Quirinus:
Elephants do, of course, have archers on their back......
The lack of archers doesn't bother me though, as archers don't play a huge role in my armies, Carthagenian or otherwise. As Carthage, I like to build a lot of cavalry, with infantry in a secondary role, but that's just me.
Same here, I always have cavalry heavy armies as carthage. Heres a pic.Elephants do, of course, have archers on their back......
The lack of archers doesn't bother me though, as archers don't play a huge role in my armies, Carthagenian or otherwise. As Carthage, I like to build a lot of cavalry, with infantry in a secondary role, but that's just me.
The Romans attacked me 3 times in the same turn at the same spot, 2 half stacks, and then this fullstack.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Roundshields are easy recruitable and cheap units but that does not mean anything if they are used properly ... I won a battle against the senate army when I was ambushing near rome .. I didn't actually fight with them but I never want to loose either ~:P Anyway most of my army had roundshields in it .. I won the battle loosing almost half of the men .. that was heroic victory
So if you play carthaginians then cav is your best choice .. especially roundshields cause you can get them very early and you can retrain them any town that has stables in it
I like to complement my round shields with long shields as well, whenever possible-- especially late-game, where more cities will have cavalry stables.
I suppose in some ways it's like hastati and principes. Both are good, and I prefer to use the better one, but the lower-tier one will do too.
I suppose in some ways it's like hastati and principes. Both are good, and I prefer to use the better one, but the lower-tier one will do too.
Hot dang, Hannibalbarc. Those are some beastly roundshields. That's a pretty good victory, considering you had no general. 
How many fights did it take to give them so much exp?
As Carthage, I'm more of a mixed person using a fairly wide variety of unit types.
I must admit though, in the very early phases of the game, I do use a little more cavalry, Round Shield and Long Shield, than infantry - sadly the Carthaginian Iberians are a little far on the poor quality side of things when used alone for my liking.
My later armies consist of a combination of Poeni Infantry (majority of force), Iberians (two or three units) and Long Shield Cavalry (three or four units). The transition from the earlier more cavalry based army is typically gradual - it takes quite a while before a fair number of cities are able to recruit them.
Poeni Infantry, mostly due to their phalanx ability, are fairly powerful. They are very effective at holding other units back, taking minimal casualties and remaining steady, while the agile Long Shields flank/remove any problematic archers.
Although I do consider the the Iberian Infantry fairly useless when used as a backbone unit, I have found they can be useful as an emergency resource should they be needed. I keep them behind my Poeni's, and charge them in whenever I detect my units beginning to waver or should they require a little extra push to force a route.
I do occasionally dump elephants in with this mix, using them in the same way as the Long Shield Cavalry. The only difference is the addition of an extra morale penalty to the enemy units who are ground level. This can often trigger a route should one be needed.
I do always have to ensure archers have been removed by the Long Shields before sending them in though. In some case I often actually have to keep a long way from the main line - the AI seems to be fond of attempting to constantly frighten them with flaming arrows before they've even entered the fray.
Later on, I gradually replace my Poeni Infantry with Sacred Band Infantry and my Long Shield Cavalry with Sacred Band Cavalry. Essentially these units are simply enhanced versions of their predecessors with no difference in purpose between them. If the Romans are still alive by this stage, this upgrade is often essential in combating their powerful post-marian unit roster.
I must admit though, in the very early phases of the game, I do use a little more cavalry, Round Shield and Long Shield, than infantry - sadly the Carthaginian Iberians are a little far on the poor quality side of things when used alone for my liking.
My later armies consist of a combination of Poeni Infantry (majority of force), Iberians (two or three units) and Long Shield Cavalry (three or four units). The transition from the earlier more cavalry based army is typically gradual - it takes quite a while before a fair number of cities are able to recruit them.
Poeni Infantry, mostly due to their phalanx ability, are fairly powerful. They are very effective at holding other units back, taking minimal casualties and remaining steady, while the agile Long Shields flank/remove any problematic archers.
Although I do consider the the Iberian Infantry fairly useless when used as a backbone unit, I have found they can be useful as an emergency resource should they be needed. I keep them behind my Poeni's, and charge them in whenever I detect my units beginning to waver or should they require a little extra push to force a route.
I do occasionally dump elephants in with this mix, using them in the same way as the Long Shield Cavalry. The only difference is the addition of an extra morale penalty to the enemy units who are ground level. This can often trigger a route should one be needed.
I do always have to ensure archers have been removed by the Long Shields before sending them in though. In some case I often actually have to keep a long way from the main line - the AI seems to be fond of attempting to constantly frighten them with flaming arrows before they've even entered the fray.
Later on, I gradually replace my Poeni Infantry with Sacred Band Infantry and my Long Shield Cavalry with Sacred Band Cavalry. Essentially these units are simply enhanced versions of their predecessors with no difference in purpose between them. If the Romans are still alive by this stage, this upgrade is often essential in combating their powerful post-marian unit roster.
Thanks good ship.
that.
Originally Posted by Tom0:
How many fights did it take to give them so much exp?
I don't rightly remember, but they all got some from that battle and the 2 before How many fights did it take to give them so much exp?
that.
A few thoughts about Iberian infantry: I don't use Iberian infantry for my core armies much, but as the game progresses and I get richer, I like to get Carthage to crank out tons of Iberian infantry. Not only does that help control the population, I've found that massed Iberians are relatively effective, so long as you don't expect them to fight against numerically similar stacks.
I don't send Iberians into the fight for more than the time it takes to get my cavalry around the line and hit the enemy in the back of their formation. However, if you're more of an infantry kind of guy and would like some in your early Carthaginian army, you could always get them some experience against rebellious armies nearby. They don't have "poor morale" so with some experience they can be decent fighters who won't run away.
...but stand and get slaughtered 
Yea, they are good for that, but really that doesn't matter they are easily retrainable and they seem to gain exp more often if they lose a lot of men, if I have Iberians I use them as a distraction for enemy inf, while my cavalry do their thing.
Originally Posted by Tom0:
...but stand and get slaughtered
If they've gained some experience there's no reason why the shouldn't be able to stand and hold a line for a good time against some early Roman troops. Besides, why would I wait with my cavalry and just watch them get slaughtered? My battles as Carthage barely include infantry fighting....but stand and get slaughtered
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
I was just explaining that I just want them to hold a line for more than the minute that they would when they are first trained, but at the same time not fight a long battle. No point in doing that as Carthage until you've got Poeni Infantry and Sacred Band, of course. Sorry if my last post sounded the wrong way, I didn't intend it to be that way.
no problem, probably only me taking it the wrong way in hindsight..
I found my Carthagian campaign to be surprisingly easy, fighting on 2 fronts only; the Numidians and the Romans. The wealth is great, although squalor is still the unsolveble problem.
Originally Posted by QuintusJulius-Cicero:
I found my Carthagian campaign to be surprisingly easy, fighting on 2 fronts only; the Numidians and the Romans. The wealth is great, although squalor is still the unsolveble problem.
Squalor is a nasty feature, although your war against squalor is really a war against population growth. I found my Carthagian campaign to be surprisingly easy, fighting on 2 fronts only; the Numidians and the Romans. The wealth is great, although squalor is still the unsolveble problem.
A good tactic is to avoid health and farm buildings and/or destroy ones you already have (this won't work on farms BTW). Although these can be useful in the early game, when population begins to boom too quickly squalor will always rear its ugly head.
If you already have squalor problems the best method is to encourage slower population growth or, if possible, even a population decrease. Destroying existing health buildings would increase unhappiness, so is, in a way, out of the question.
I find the best method of doing this is a mass training of peasants and then sending them off to other regions which may need more population to be disbanded. Disbanding add's the number of men in the unit to that regions population, allowing you to promote growth where it is needed and prevent it where it isn't.
Bear in mind that this strategy also works in enemy settlements should you want to cause some squalor trouble there. You could also send the units on boats into pirate infested waters, or send them into enemy lands to be slaughtered if you are not too sure what to do with them.
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