So, does anyone else feel like a beta tester here?

[King Azzole]

To be honest, I love what this game COULD be. But there are so many bugs im at my wits end with certain features. What makes me really sad is this game took 2+? years to produce and its in the state its in. This leads me to two conclusions...

A> They ran out of funding to finish the bugs and needed to push it out to get more funds, to release a patch later. ( which sucks for people who dont have internet and are gonna have to live with it).

B> There QA personel were chimpanzees.

I am very upset with the direction CA has taken with their series of games. MTW was almost finished when I got it out the box, with a small patch that just improved the allready awsome game play. I would have preferred a delay if possible to finish the game properly. The graphics are awe inspiring with the right settings, and you can literally feel the potential. But when im seiging a town and take the gate locking out the 4000 enemy reinforcements and giving me a chance at victory but 1 of my units is cut down to 3 men and routes out the door and opens it for the enemy........ And the list goes on and on. Im sure there are 30 threads like this, and I dont want this to be all hate and anger. But I know CA knows damn well what is awesome in the game and what they did to us the consumer. Ah well. Guess you just bend over and take it up the poop shute.

[Sjakihata]

What makes me really sad is this game took 2+? years to produce and its in the state its in.

The game took 4 years to develop. This is the time were a team was assigned to the task, what might have been going on before is unofficial, but I suspect that they used some time to think it over in the big perspective. Normally it was scheduled for release last year, however, ActiVision gave them another year to 'polish' the product...

[Thoros of Myr]

A> They ran out of funding to finish the bugs and needed to push it out to get more funds, to release a patch later. ( which sucks for people who dont have internet and are gonna have to live with it).

I'm going with this theory. After I finish my first full campaign I'm just going to focus on modding and quick battles until the patch is released. I'm very impressed with most aspects of the SP game but some quirks are really getting on my nerves over time, namely the AI and pathfinding in certain places.

[Sinner]

Funnily enough, that's going to be my plan... I want to do one campaign without changing anything, then I'll do the speed mod, killing rate mod, etc plus get rid of or mod the pigs, dogs, gladiators, arcanii, headhurlers, etc.

[Longasc]

I am usually the first to blame CA for bug and stuff, but

I have to disagree

MTW runs very stable. I did not experience the suspected bug with the heirs as you did, but...

I feel they could have balanced Cavalry and some things better during 2-4 years. They knew they were going to portray a Roman Army, mainly Infantry. I did not make it to the Marius Event so far, but usually Cavalry wins my battles. They are much better for open field Battles than Principes and Triarii - they are good for assaulting besieged settlements, but in all other regards, Cavalry is preferable.

Edit: The crazy running- and kill speeds are also ridiculous.

[TinCow]

I personally don't have any problems with the game as it is. I haven't encountered one bug or one crash. The killing speeds seem perfectly fine to me. I think most people are getting worked up because it's not a cookie-cutter of MTW. It's a different game people. Give it some time and get used to it. CA has done a great job, they've pretty much earned an auto-buy from me on their next project.

[Lemur]

I think most people are getting worked up because it's not a cookie-cutter of MTW. It's a different game people. Give it some time and get used to it. CA has done a great job, they've pretty much earned an auto-buy from me on their next project.

I second that emotion. Remember when MTW came out? It took me a while to get used to it after STW. Cav were a lot less useful all of a sudden.

I think we all need some time to get used to the new game before we go running around shouting that CA has dropped the ball. I love the game, and I'm willing to give it every benefit of every doubt.

Who else is out there trying make historically accurate strategy games at this level? And who else is doing it with this kind of success? What else would you rather be playing? Is there some uber-game that I'm not aware of that does this even better?

Let's get used to the game, give it at least a month of hard playing, and then reach conclusions. CA leaves plenty of room for us to mod what we don't like, which is straight-up kudos to them.

And I know everybody feels that cav is overpowered, but man, I hated it in MTW when I'd run a tank's worth of Lancers into an infantry unit's flank, only to see them stop and make choppy-chop with their lances. Killed the realism for me. Mebbe the cav is too much right now, but suddenly the dynamic feels right -- either the charge succeeds and they break the enemy line, or they don't, and they die. Much much much much better.

Let's light some candles and make a blood offering at our personal shrines to Baal, and thank CA for giving a damn and fighting the good fight.

[Nelson]

I have yet to encounter an issue with Rome serious enough to make me feel like a beta tester.

[Stuie]

I have yet to encounter an issue with Rome serious enough to make me feel like a beta tester.

Same here. The game seems very polished to me; most of the issues I have with the game are around design decisions, not bugs, and I can mod those.

[Red Harvest]

No, this game is reasonably polished as far as stability and the like. Most of the concerns are early release UI issues, and problems with AI and unit balance. The one thing that makes it seem really odd is the kill speed that is about 10 times too fast. Some are happy with it, but many of us are not.

[Spino]

Yes RTW has its problems and definitely needs patching but when you consider its enormous complexity and sheer size it is remarkably stable and free of 'show stopping bugs' (at least for me). While version 1.0 of RTW could be have been released in a tighter, more balanced & tweaked state I am perfectly happy playing it right now instead of having to deal with a late October, early November release date. Of course I say this with the confidence that CA and Activision will be addressing many of our concerns in future patches.

If I believed CA was going to shun its responsibility as a developer by ignoring the numerous existing bugs and ruin its excellent track record of fixing and improving their TW games to satisfy the fans I would be rather pissed right now...

[zentuit]

Well there's a saying in the software biz - "you can have it on time, on budget, or on spec; pick 2". (I'm a developer and it is ooh so true). So I can understand why there are these problems. Yes CA got another year to work on it, but that was not to polish; from what I read it was a "we can add these new cool features" (ie, the spec changed).

I am a bit annoyed that the QA folks either didn't raise a stink or were ignored about the suiciding generals. Anyone playing this game for more than 2 hours will see that. Killing speeds are high, yes. I wanted to finish a campaign straight out of the box so I didn't mind the speeds since it let me unlock the factions quicker. Now I'll use the mod to slow it down. Cavalry I'm still not sure of since I've been campaigning against light infantry. I'd expect cavalry to hurt lights; I seem to chew up barbarian cavalry with my principes (heavy inf). Although I don't like the ankle breaking turns (aka fish schooling) the cavalry are performing, I'll grant that.

I haven't CTD'd. Only saw one glaring pathing bug on the battle screen where about 5 enemy units managed to get stuck behind a rock outcropping. Did I mention I don't like the suiciding generals?

The strategic map is great. The aging and dying off of the agents add that extra that was missing in MTW. "What do you mean my 8 influence diplomat just died? I need him right now! Who else we got? Nobody? Why? Because he was so good? ARGH!" I'm still figuring out the best way to handle city management. Limited governors is another good idea. It made for some interesting decisions during my campaign when one of my best generals was also one of the best governors.

I wish the AI's use their navies more aggressively. The Greek city states had a ton of fleets in the Aegean. Did one of them ever go up to blockade? Nope. That would have hurt too. Well maybe on the harder difficulty levels?

Do I want to uninstall the game? NO WAY! I'm having a blast! I think RTW can be improved and hope that CA gets a patch out for some of the more glaring problems. Say like suiciding generals perhaps?

[LittleRaven]

I think people are remembering M:TW with way too much nostalgia. Don't get me wrong, I loved that game, but when it was released it was a mess. The AI was downright incompetent in every aspect, there were multiple highly annoying bugs, and people complained non-stop about how CA had destroyed the 'feel' of Shogun.

Of course, Medieval eventually got patched up pretty nicely, and we all got used the changes or modded them away, and everything worked out fine.

Rome is 10x the game that Medieval was, and it hasn't even been patched yet. Personally, I think this is one of the best purchases I've ever made, and no, I don't feel anything like a beta tester. What I'm playing with is one hell of a product, even if it does still have a few quirks. (which it does)

[Longasc]

One should find out why the screenshot feature of RTW is incapable of taking screenshots with Anti-Aliasing on (black screens!) on my Ti4400. I need to switch it off to get some pics.

I see more problems with Balancing and things like missing replays save in Campaigns as with real ugly bugs. Stability is superb, no crash and whatsoever.

[tombom]

This reminds me of Paradox games; if you've played them you'll soon get used to a "Release now, patch later" mentality. I'll wait until I get the game (should of got it today :( ) before I make up my mind...

[invalidopcode]

I have had no major problems with the game. There are a couple of minor "issues" but nothing that is stopping me from enjoying the game.

In fact, I think that R:TW is a worthy evolution for the TotalWar franchise. All the new features give the game a feel that other games just don't have. I mean, come on, who does not get psyched when their general gives a rousing speech before attacking the enemy!

And I would not compare R:TW to those other games that just did not work when they were first released. This release is playable and enjoyable. I consider my money well spent.

InvalidOpcode

[afroide]

Not at all....

The running speeds are fine for me. Note that after a decent march to oppose an enemy and a charge or two, your infantry and cav become winded and move slower than one legged dogs. RTW seems to make fatigue a much more important factor than previous games, which adds a whole host of changes to strategy and tactics. Battlefield positioning and forcing your enemy to react and meet you on your terms is now much more important.

Cavalry is not overpowered in my experience or testing. All other things being equal, cavalry is questionably effective against decent infantry in a frontal charge. In flanking manouvres or with a leadership advantage, however, they are deadly. I've had cavalry wipe out an enemy unit in about 3.2 seconds, and I've had enemy infantry spank my cavalry when poorly deployed. To me, this is the way it should be.

There are some other minor issues that I have not encountered that I willnot comment on, but by and large they did a great job. Comparing it to MTW, it seems that they have polarized a large number of factors. What I mean is, the line separating a complete and utter victory and the spanking of a lifetime is much much thinner. I like it alot.

[Turbo]

I am as disappointed as anyone with the number of bugs Rome has. You just have to read the several posts I have made regarding them. However, all told, I would still give the game a 90% well done rating. There are a multitude of smaller bugs, but the bulk of the game is well done and playable on my machine.

Where CA is letting us down is with the post release support. There is no communication between the customers and the developers on the host of small -- easily fixable bugs that the game has. Even on the Activision site, users are being left to fend for themselves with no support from Activision (no surprise there) and CA. I think most of us would be much happier if we knew that some of the issues were at least being looked and a patch was being comtemplated.

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

Only if beta testers have a really great time do I feel like one. I'm enjoying the game like I have enjoyed no other in a number of years.

& it runs solidly for me. I can no longer play MTW because the sound stops after 5 minutes. I play Rome for hours at a time with no problem.

[Tamur]

Beta testing is rough business. Playing RTW is not rough business. There are some definite problems, but they'll get sorted out. Meanwhile, there is a huge amount to enjoy.

[sakuraoni]

seeing legionaries throw those javelins, take out their swords and charge (you can even see their shields wobble!) is such a treat ;)

[Colovion]

I feel somewhat like North America was used as a Charlie Test. The game was done and could have been polished a little more - but I see it as a way to hurry the last phase of polishing off. People complain, show them bugs - threads start - and then they can release a patch once they have all of that info. It saves them a little work and we get the game a little faster. Don't get me wrong, i dislike how all developers can't make a flawless game anymore because the internet gives them that little crutch, but still - it makes for a more flawless product in the end.

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

Don't get me wrong, i dislike how all developers can't make a flawless game anymore because the internet gives them that little crutch, but still - it makes for a more flawless product in the end.

What are these games of which you speak? Games have never been flawless--not even close. & before the Internet, there was almost no distribution of patches for games. Of course, before the Internet, we tended to take bugs in stride because there were no fora in which to continually obsess about them.

[Colovion]

Console Games. Games before patches were mandatory after every release.

Perhaps 'flawless' wasn't the right word as it reflects 100% perfection. If you started playing games with the original Sim Earth and Sim City you know that patches are really annoying to have to rely on to get a game up to par seeing as games didn't used to be like this.

[Doug-Thompson]

So, does anyone else feel like a beta tester here?

No.

[LittleRaven]

Perhaps 'flawless' wasn't the right word as it reflects 100% perfection. If you started playing games with the original Sim Earth and Sim City you know that patches are really annoying to have to rely on to get a game up to par seeing as games didn't used to be like this.

Ah, I remember those days well.

You're right, of course. Games didn't used to be anything like this. They were much, much simpler, and had virtually no customization available at all. They didn't have surround sound effects or jaw dropping 3D graphics. There was no such thing as diplomacy, even in the hardcore strategy games. A game that had over 10 playable, diverse factions would have been unheard of.

Games have come a long, long way since those days. They are now amazingly complex pieces of software that incorporate a dazzling array of features. Back when I was playing Sim City, I would never have imagined that you could ever make a game like Rome.

But with increased complexity comes a greater possibility for error. Given its remarkable scope, Rome is unbelievably bug-free. I challenge anyone to come up with a game of similar scale that was released in a more polished state, ever. I've already gotten 50 dollars out of this game, and I'm only getting started. Not only do I have future patches to look forwards to, CA gave me the ability to adjust almost anything in the game using only a text file. That's quality work, friend. It just doesn't get any better than this.

[King Azzole]

No show stopping bugs? So charging your units across a bridge to attack the enemy and half of them run down the river and drown isnt show stopping?

Bribing a foriegn general to join your army and your faction no longer produces heirs isnt show stopping? (not sure if that was the exact cause but im 90% positive).

Having your archers set to fire at will and when the enemy gets close they unload a volley into your mens backs killing 40 isnt show stopping?

Or heres my favorite, I used siege ladders for the first time, and while my guys were climbing them and some where on the wall I double clicked them to the street to hurry the heck up and open the gate, and when i did that all the guys on the ladder fell off and died.

Or how about once you take a city in a siege and lock the enemy outside if one of your units inside routes it runs to the gates and opens them to "run away" and lets the enemy in.

What about when you set your cohorts to testudo and then order them out and run at the same time and half the dudes stay in testudo while the other half run off, making them useless till they regroup?

How about no matter how many navel battles you win your admiral never gains command stars?

OoooOooo what about when you have two phalanxs facing eachother to fight they refuse to engage and just dance around eachother? Surely a greek player doesnt think this is show stopping?

Theres plenty more I just got tired of typing. The point is to say you havnt encountered any bugs yet means either your blind, or played 1 hour total. No offense, but I am blunt.

I am not trying to knock the product guys, im trying to knock the company that made the product. The product is awe inspiring like I said. When things run right which is surprisingly more than not, the game is BAD ASS. But when one of those bugs come up I let out two graons... One for me, and one for people who bought the game and dont have internet to conveniently download a patch. To say its bug free and polished is ludicrous.

[LittleRaven]

Theres plenty more I just got tired of typing. The point is to say you havnt encountered any bugs yet means either your blind, or played 1 hour total. No offense, but I am blunt.

No offense, but you obviously don't understand the meaning of 'show-stopping.' In the software world, 'show-stopping' means that the client cannot use the software. Not that the software has flaws.

None of the bugs you listed are 'show-stopping.' I've sunk well over 40 hours into this game already and I haven't even seen most of them. Some of them I wouldn't even consider bugs. Archers firing into the back of your guys? Heck, friendly fire is a feature in most tactical games. Routing men opening gates you don't want them to? Well, they're routing which means they aren't under your command and probably aren't thinking that straight to begin with.

Are there plenty of quirks that could use fixing? You bet. But again...show me a game of similiar scope that has had a more bug-free initial release. Rome is a model for other games in that regard, and CA deserves a lot of praise for putting so much polish on this baby.

[TinCow]

Theres plenty more I just got tired of typing. The point is to say you havnt encountered any bugs yet means either your blind, or played 1 hour total. No offense, but I am blunt.

I've played it every night for almost a week now and I have yet to see a bug. Sorry, but most of us don't seem to be having the problems you are.

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

If you started playing games with the original Sim Earth and Sim City you know that patches are really annoying to have to rely on to get a game up to par seeing as games didn't used to be like this.

Oh, I'm more ancient than that. I believe the first game I played on my home computer was Hammurabi, a text-only game of city management. I found the code in my HotCoCo magazine & input it since it was only a little over 100 lines. I did save it to my cassette-tape drive so I wouldn't have to input it again.

& I agree that patches are annoying. Consoles are closed systems, though. Older PCs (and Color Computer IIs) were practically closed systems because the hardware changes were less frequent. Even then, we often had to delve into the arcane arts of tweaking High & Extended memory settings, changing BIOS settings for every different game, & finding the sound driver that would work with this game or that one.

I think Finale 2004, music notation software, is probably what caused Mediaeval to start losing its sound, but I can't get rid of Finale. Rome runs well for me, probably because it handles the current configurations better than its predecessor. Just a guess, since I don't have time to redo all my system software to find out for sure.