how consistent is the diplomatic AI ?

**Blodrast** · 10-02-2004, 00:10

Share your experiences.
So far, we've seen that the strategic AI in general, the diplomatic AI included, are much better than in MTW. What I would like to know is if people have experienced any weird or random behaviour from the diplomatic AI, such as:

- weird negotiations behaviour (the mysterious refusal of map info exchange is one example; I suppose the refusal of Gifts, as described in Tamur's Diplomacy Guide, is another one); how about nations on the brink of extinction (not necessarily your fault) that refuse to make friends with you or pay tribute or something ?
- erratic or unexplained behaviour towards you, i.e. breaking trade/alliance/attacking without any apparent reason, lack of flexibility (i.e., you broke a deal once, and they never ever accept your offers of friendship, not even after 50/100 years, etc).

How about the part where in MTW once you had gotten big enough, everybody would just go to war with you, no matter how long they'd been friends with you ? Has anyone seen that happen in RTW ? Is it really _total_ war once you pass a threshold ?

Feel free to chip in with anything else that may be related to the subject...

**Red Harvest** · 10-02-2004, 08:13

This is all on very hard/very hard so it might not hold for lower settings. These are my main diplomacy observations.

1. So far as Carthage, only Germania would ally with me. They broke the alliance on the following turn. I'm at war with all the Romans of course. Other factions that are at war with Rome and not allied to any of my enemies, refuse alliances. This does not make sense to me. There is no harm in accepting.
2. Every faction I share a border with will initially will grant trade, then attack me just as soon as they can get an army in contact with anything of mine. WTF? This is stupid for Numidia, a traditional ally. It costs them too much financially to start such a war.
3. I can get ceasefires after kicking the dog snot out of a faction--improved from MTW.
4. I have had the most territories since early on in the campaign. Everyone attacks me if they share a border.
5. When not at war with me, all factions I have asked have accepted a trade agreement. This is a positive!

Mixed bag so far.

**Quietus** · 10-02-2004, 08:48

I don't have much province yet. I'm playing very hard/very hard too. Diplomacy is pretty good. No one-track AI mind so far. They are fighting each other and they look very independent just like Shogun (even more so).

The Dacians actually attacked me because I was belligerent against Gaul (their ally). After an astute and pointed warning, which I didn't a pay attention to - and much to my surprise and glee later - they sent an army to attack my province Patavium which closest to theirs (Segestica). That's where the Julii - Dacian war started. Awesome!

The Senate actually scolded me for attacking provinces I'm not supposed to attack because the Senate policy mandates it. They said, they start to think that's I'm doing it for my own glory not for the Greater Rome. Ooooooh. Scary.

Here's another one. I was given a mission by the Senate to attack Caralis (in Sardinia) a city by the Carthaginians. After a couple years of preparation, I attacked with about 6 units and won. The Carthaginians sent a boatload of units

I sent a stack of 3 ships to blockade ( they had about a full stack of ships). I know I'm gonna lose when they attack and they will invade and slaughter my units garrisoned. I can't do anything because my main army is fighting the Gauls. I only did the mission to satisfy the senate. I got desperate and sent my emissary to the Scipii and asked them to attack the Carthaginians, they agreed. Next turn, the carthaginian army at Lillybauem (in Sicily) was under siege by a stack of Scipii and the fleet was gone. I assume they went to Sicily to fight the Scipii. I couldn't see thought because my ships aren't close.

Will post more later since I haven't experienced the Roman civil war yet. Way to go still I think. I've only captured 22-23 provinces so far and I need 50 at least along with other requirements.

One last thing. The Greek States asked for a ceasefire and trade rights. After negotiations and me introducing money in the equation, they agreed to tributes in exchange. Although it is the other romans that are attacking them by land. I'm only at war with them due to senate mission to blockade their port at Syracuse.

**discovery1** · 10-02-2004, 08:50

After attacking Numidia in support of my Carthaginian allies, I decieded to give the the territories won. It wasn't sunch an issue, b/c the distance to my capital(Antioch) was so great, not even a full stack could keep them quiet. SO I conquer half of Africa for them and, while a large Scipii army chills just outside Carthage, my allie uses and equal force to attack a border town, the only Numidian city I didn't hand over to them. While they are fighting all Romans and the Spanish they attack me, the greatest military power on the map, who gave them half of Africa

.

**Blodrast** · 10-02-2004, 23:40

hmm, Red Harvest, my general impression from what I've been reading on the boards is that playing Carthage is significantly more difficult than most other factions. Perhaps that has something to do with the problems you've mentioned... e.g. other nations unwilling to ally with you even though there are no apparent reasons...maybe this (and most likely other things) are particular to "more difficult" factions.

So far, all my allies have proved loyal and never backstabbed me (which is a huge relief from MTW, when you could never trust anyone for even one turn). I'm not currently having any diplomatic problems or absurd wars or anything, except for unwillingness to receive gifts (I offered ridiculous amounts of money for map info, just for the heck of it, and I kept getting refused - and no, I don't know their territory yet... what's up with that "We have nothing to offer in return" thing ? and the diplomats were equal (1, 2 influence) on both sides...

**Oaty** · 10-03-2004, 06:42

I think it is unlikely that an ally will attack you. But if you get a message that the alliance has been broken you know what to expect soon.

**discovery1** · 10-03-2004, 08:17

You don't get a message about an allience ending. They just attacked.

**Thoros of Myr** · 10-03-2004, 08:27

You don't get any early warning, though I was attacked by my ally once and a big message popped up saying "Betryed!"

**Mr. Juice** · 10-03-2004, 09:00

Pontus and I (Scipii) have been pals for more than 50 years now. After playing M:TW, I am still in complete disbelief. An ally that acts like an ally!

**frogbeastegg** · 10-03-2004, 09:37

In my first game, a Julii campaign just for the sake of messing about. The Gauls were my main diplomatic contacts; I asked them for a ceasefire because although I was beating them in the field I desperately needed to sort my negative cashflow and reinforce my troops. The Gauls agreed, they even paid tribute of 2600. On a whim I asked for an alliance; it was accepted. Next turn they broke the alliance. I repeated this process, with around the same amounts of cash each time, every turn for something like 6 turns. My finances were so bad even the huge tributes left me with a negative each turn.

Now I am doing a Brutii short campaign with more serious intentions. This time everything is going quite well, but diplomacy remains ... odd. I allied with the Macedonians; it lasted for maybe 3 turns before they marched an army in and started attacking my cities. I then forged a peace and alliance with the beleagured Greeks to take on Macedon. It lasted one turn.

My Roman allies have been very good, declaring war and ceasefires to match my own dealings, also sending armies to protect my cities from rampaging rebels.

froggy conclusion: non-Roman alliances aren't worth the paper they are written on. The Roman alliances are great, everything I had hoped for.

**Tricky Lady** · 10-03-2004, 10:25

Originally Posted by frogbeastegg

My Roman allies have been very good, declaring war and ceasefires to match my own dealings, also sending armies to protect my cities from rampaging rebels.

Agreed. In my currect Julii campaign the Senate sent a full stack to kill off a stack with two rebel units

However, the rebels seem to manage to escape or retreat from the senate's army each time so there both just moving through my territory for some 5 turns now...

Something I liked: the Senate asked me to send an army to help them surrounding this rebel army. So far my pathfinding has been so lousy that I didn't succeed yet

Got some hard cash from the Gauls now for 2 turns (2 x 1900 denarii) which was invested in city upgrades and recruitment. And now I am about to break the alliance as the senate wants me to capture Narbonensis.
I like this game.

**Drake** · 10-03-2004, 10:47

Don't know if this counts as a diplomatic matter poroperly, but on my current campaign as the Julii I've seen repeated occasions when a Roman faction will make peace with another lie Carthage or the Greek Cities and then the next turn be at war with them again. It's happening repeatedly, so either it's a slight bug or everyone's a flithy traitor, in which case it is very consistent.