Best way to deal with chariot archers?

[LittleRaven]

These guys drive me nuts. I'm not sure what a good counter to them is.

Traditionally, the counter to mounted archers has been light cavalry that can chase them down. But that won't work here, because in my experience even light chariots massacre all types of cavalry. The only I've found to effectively fight chariots is to swarm them with infantry. Once they stop, the infantry will cut them down pretty easily. But infantry has to make contact first, and that's almost impossible to do with chariot archers.

I just spend the last 30 minutes chasing one unit of chariot archers around the map before I lost to the timer. *sigh* Can we maybe reinstate the moral penalty for when a unit does nothing but run?

[Longasc]

This is an interesting question.

But I have not yet encountered Chariot Archers, only War Chariots... I think they did not fire arrows, they threw spears or something like that.

This is ridiculous

Were Chariots not there for mowing down Infantry? - Egyptian Chariots e.g.

In RTW, they butcher Cavalry, but no Infantry. While Cavalry butchers Spearmen?

I have my doubts about this kind of balance!

[Dorkus]

chariot archers are indeed a huge pain. if it's a city battle, best bet is to try to trap them into an alley.

if open terrain, just chase them until they hit a boundary. then they usually stay and fight. you'll need at least 2 cav units, probably 3, to win the battle. especially since the damn things can shoot while they're running.

[Soulflame]

o(w)nagers work, maybe some missile (cavarly auxillia) other then that... trying to make them tired befire chasing with light cavalry is usually okay too.
Note that when they are charged by cavalry, they usually run, but keep firing arrows. You just have to put up with that, a bit like horse archers, since there isn't much you can do (unless you can build horse archers yourself, which only few factions can).

And yes, they drove me nuts too.

[lars573]

I believe that javelin men have a bonus vs chariots as well as elephants.

[Red Harvest]

Yes, I've been looking through the stats. Infantry and peltasts get bonuses vs. chariots (of course they can't *catch* them...)

From what I'm seeing, most chariots are probably set to the same speed as "medium horse" (and some of the light cav. actually rides "medium horse.")

I think chariots are missing speed penalties for less than flat terrain, and little things like trees, fallen logs, rocks, etc. They act too much like cavalry.

[Oaty]

I've found cavalry works best on them. The thing is it looks like they are chewing up your cavalry but it is there arrows chewing you up not the chariots themselves.

Infantry do work well but if they are already engaged it is not the chariots tearing them up it is the chariots breaking up there formation making them easy pickings for the enemy.

The trick is to let the A.I. let them get isolated. Once isolated they are prettymuch horsemeat

[Oaty]

Plus forgot to say they are more of an annoyance than anything else. There bark is worse than ther bite. And the number 1 way to keep them away from your main army is send skirmishers after them W/O skirmish on. Of course they will get shot up and when the mainline battle is over and they see there army running past them they tusually take heed to the call. They are the one unit that is a bit deadly to chase down and kill as even when they are routing they still fire there arrows.

[LittleRaven]

Plus forgot to say they are more of an annoyance than anything else. There bark is worse than ther bite.

Normally, that would be true. But in this case, I was the attacker, and I had routed all other units. Only thing left was one unit of light chariots. Unfortunately for me, I'm playing as the Germans, and do not yet have access to archers, so all I could do was chase them with infantry, which I did for a LONG time.

I didn't really care about how many of my men they killed. I just wanted them to rout.

Another question: Does the AI ever run out of missiles?

[Daevyll]

Just shoot them.

Chariots are incredibly vulnerable to archers, a few volleys is usally all it takes to kill most of them and send the rest running in my experience.

[Oaty]

LITTLE RAVEN. Do'nt forget about mercanaries. When I said skirmishers I meant javelin class units as they get close enough to stop them from forward progress. My guess is you sent all units after the chariot wich caused them to bottleneck and let the chariots get around. Always send unist at the flanks first then go for the frontal. Also javelins can be used as they wo'nt always skirmish away from them

[hoof]

Chariots can be very bad for infantry as well as cavalry, especially the one's covered in blades (like the Seleucid or Egyptian chariots).

The best antidote to chariots I've found is phalanxes, however, that requires the chariots to drive into the phalanxes (from the front). When that does happen, they die very rapidly. However, as many chariots have missiles as their primary weapon, they don't fall for bait tactics like cavalry often do (where you get the enemy cavalry to charge a vulnerable unit, which turns and runs through a Phalanx unit behind them)

Second best is some archers. Put some archers in front of a phalanx (or other good anti-Chariot unit). The archers will pick them apart, and if they go after the archers, they will have a wall of spears to deal with.

The problem with chariots as a tool is that while they can carve swaths of infantry down (esp. the non-British chariots), they aren't good for finishing them off. This is a real problem with the British, as they have no "real" cavalry, thus have a real problem killing the last dozen or two men in a unit. And in my experience, they don't have nearly the killing power as other faction's chariots when driving through infantry (could be the fact that they have only two little blades on the wheels that look to be made of bone, vs the multiple metal blades found on other chariots).

[Soulflame]

ONe really odd feature that is really silly is that the AI knows when you give attack commands. You can easily move units walking beside the chariots, but when you click attack, they go into hypermode and run. The AI knows you are targeting it, and move his chariots away fast, just keeping out of range.
It is if the chariot riders are psychic and can sense someones orders.

[Dorkus]

Plus forgot to say they are more of an annoyance than anything else. There bark is worse than ther bite. And the number 1 way to keep them away from your main army is send skirmishers after them W/O skirmish on. Of course they will get shot up and when the mainline battle is over and they see there army running past them they tusually take heed to the call. They are the one unit that is a bit deadly to chase down and kill as even when they are routing they still fire there arrows.

not true in a huge city battle. a few units of chariot archers can really ruin your day. they're fast, and they will repeatedly dart into the town square and restart the timer (and in big cities, the town square is HUGE, so it's difficult to guard the entire thing, especially if you've just been through a tough siege).

[Dorkus]

Just shoot them.

Chariots are incredibly vulnerable to archers, a few volleys is usally all it takes to kill most of them and send the rest running in my experience.

Only if you have high range missiles (120m or better.. and most roman armies will not have this). Char archers have great range, and will run before a unit gets close enough to fire.

[Steppe Merc]

I like chasing them with horse archers. But never charge them with even heavy horse! As the Parthians, I was fighting the Selcuids. I tried and charge their Chariots with my cataphracts, and the chariots broke quickly. But I lost so many of my cataphracts, it wasn't worth it.

[Dorkus]

I like chasing them with horse archers. But never charge them with even heavy horse! As the Parthians, I was fighting the Selcuids. I tried and charge their Chariots with my cataphracts, and the chariots broke quickly. But I lost so many of my cataphracts, it wasn't worth it.

horse cav get slaughtered by chariots. camels supposedly get bonuses (or actually charitos get penalties), but i don't think these bonuses are working correctly.

[Praylak]

War elephants do well against them too. Since Chariots skirmish well, I'd be inclined to use some missile unit to counter them. I've had good results with slingers. 2 units of supported slingers boxing them in will slaughter chariot archers in no time.

Personally I've had no difficulty in countering any unit. Spearmen will defeat cavalry in a deep formation. Even warbands (after warcry) counter charging against them get good results. Once cavalry get hung up, it's game over for them. I believe the real source of the problem with these unit vs unit discussions are really associated from playing on veryhard. Where enemy unit stats are unrealistc and inflated to the point that it's crazy. If you could see the real numbers, it becomes obvious.

[hoof]

Soulflame, that was an issue with MTW as well (if you wanted infantry to attack archers, you did not order them to attack the archers as they would run. You'd tell them to run to a point behind the archers)

However, I don't mind, and let the AI get away with it. It's one of the few ways the AI code can tell what you really are trying to do (how do you write an algorithm to tell if the Player is putting his spearmen near a unit to prep for an attack, or merely to act as a wall?) Given that most players can spot when an enemy unit begins an attack or stops, I think the AI needs that edge.

If you're really concerned about it, you can do one of two things: 1) use pause. This lets you act like the AI and (nearly) instantaneously react to changes in the battle, 2) Use this against the AI (tell a weak unit to attack cavalry for example, then when the AI does its counterattack, tell the unit to run behind some spearmen).

This kind of AI cheat is much more tolerable than the hard/very hard difficulty level battlefield combat bonuses the AI gets (grumble grumble).

[troymclure]

if your playing a faction that has horse archers put them on cantabrian circle and set one or two HA units per chariot unit works like a charm. Course pretty much anything vs HA on CC = Heroic Victory. anyone else find that..

[Steppe Merc]

Yeah, i always get heroric victories with my Scythians. Sadly, my horse archers always suffer nasty losses as they end up shoothing them selves so often.

[lolik4]

wardogs.
chariots always give me hard time, dont know about open field, but on the streets i used wardogs and they were pretty effective.

[Morindin]

British chariot archers gave me one hell of a time, I'd usually set two units of Roman cavalry to attack each chariot archer unit, effectively dragging all my cavalry out of a fight.

After dealing with the main force I'd find one or two chariot archer units dead (provided my horses didnt rout). I usually had enough by the end though to round up the remaining chariots.

As for Chariot archers in a city, you can usually engage them with your infantry (unless its really close) or plonk archers in the town square, either that or "herd" them towards your infantry with cavalry. Can be a pain but it works.

In other words, I dont really have an effective way of dealing with them, but I own Britania, so their chariots didnt save them in the end. :)

[hoom]

I'm utterly frustrated by the Egyptian chariots.
In my Scipii campaign I'm getting big, high quality armies wiped out by chariots :(

So, what can a Roman do to deal with chariots?
Throwing loads of units at them is not really an option since by the time I replace the losses & ship them across the map, the Egyptian army is back up to power already.
Meanwhile, my economy is straining under the burden of my current excursion of 65 units.

I guess my armies are archer light, so I can try using more archers I guess.

My Auxilia get pretty much as chewed up as my Legions.
All attempts to defeat chariots with cavalry have been a failure so far.

Mercenary Hoplites perhaps?

[Akka]

The problems with chariots are that they don't seem to have the problems that chariots had in reality :
- They are too fast (even light cavalry have a tough time to catch them up).
- They don't have problem crossing bad terrain.
- They can shoot with accuracy while moving.
- They have long range.

The only good counter I know against them is archers (greek archers have enough range to shoot them, at least). Of course, a phalanx will tear them apart in no time, but they rarely charge it, they prefer to pepper it from a distance.

[Oleander Ardens]

Chariot Archers have the same range like the standard Archers and the good slingers, shooting 120m, at least according to this site:

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=egypt&id=15

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=britons&id=23

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=pontus&id=8

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=slave&id=113

Rather stunning is their large ammo, reflecting the large quivers, with 60 arrows compared to the 40 of the horsearchers and the 30 of the Normal ones.

They have also a very high ranged skill from 13 up to 14, making all this arrows count. The armor goes from 3 for the british to 6 for the pontic and egyptian, being topped by the Amazons with 11. Couple that with the lifepoints and voila' it explains a good deal of their power.

Cheers

OA

[DisruptorX]

If you want to kill chariot archers, bring cataphract archers. The chariot archers can't even hurt them. Elephant archers work really well, too, and they can be hired as mercs.

[Oaty]

Also maybe the problem is with formation. If your infantry are in a box formation they will most definately stand there ground but if you are stretching them in a line, they will just get chewed up as the chariots will rush right through. Once the infantry are in a box formation very few chariots will charge right through

[Dorkus]

i believe the egyptian general version (which is the version you're most likely to see, at least in the early to mid game) has armor 10 (6 arm, 4 sh) and 5 hp.

This is the version that most people have problems with. They're just a pain to kill, especially when you throw in the extra hp for generals (above and beyond the base 5 for the unit).

Chariot Archers have the same range like the standard Archers and the good slingers, shooting 120m, at least according to this site:

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=egypt&id=15

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=britons&id=23

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=pontus&id=8

http://www.onlinedesert.com/rtw/?faction=slave&id=113

Rather stunning is their large ammo, reflecting the large quivers, with 60 arrows compared to the 40 of the horsearchers and the 30 of the Normal ones.

They have also a very high ranged skill from 13 up to 14, making all this arrows count. The armor goes from 3 for the british to 6 for the pontic and egyptian, being topped by the Amazons with 11. Couple that with the lifepoints and voila' it explains a good deal of their power.

Cheers

OA

[Orvis Tertia]

Dogs, dogs, dogs. Chariot archers get all discombobulated when you sick dogs on them.