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  1. #1
    Member Member Tera's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Panda,

    I can assure you that most of the multiplayer community perfectly agrees on most of the points mentioned by Zeus. In fact, these points were not listed by Zeus himself - a large chunk of the multiplayer community (found at .COM/.NET/.ORG mostly) contributed to this list. We don't want to present this as a personal effort - it's the collective effort of the loyal multiplayer community.

    I agree with you that the aformentioned list contains entries which shouldn't be there, and that the list should be more orderly and explanatory. We will work on this.

    But let us be clear on two points:

    - if you want proof that tens/hundreds of us agree with the list, then you shall have it.
    - It's true - the game "works" without many of the features removed from previous games. However, does that mean that the game can't be bettered? Flexible denari and detailed logfiles, for example - would they hamper the playability of the game or actually improve it? These are not bugs, in fact we do not wish only bugs to be resolved, but we mostly wish additions and improvements to the game. I don't think our arguments are stupid. We fought for most of the aformentioned features over the years, and now we get a new game that trashed most of them altogether. Please bear with us.

    Tera.


    The Order of Kenchikuka

  2. #2

    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    I for one would sign that petition anyday!

  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member FearZeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Thx tera,

    Basically said eveything I would have liked to say! I only want the best for the MP community and I think we vets know best, please see post above, titled petition.

  4. #4
    Clan Takiyama Senior Member CBR's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Well I dont agree with the unit max 4 tax. People can make rules or just dont play with huge amounts of denarii.


    CBR

  5. #5

    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Tera
    Panda,

    I can assure you that most of the multiplayer community perfectly agrees on most of the points mentioned by Zeus. In fact, these points were not listed by Zeus himself - a large chunk of the multiplayer community (found at .COM/.NET/.ORG mostly) contributed to this list. We don't want to present this as a personal effort - it's the collective effort of the loyal multiplayer community.

    Tera.
    and not only .com/net/org , also all the italian MP community (you can found in the links of this site) agree with the lists of bugs write by Zeus!
    if u want we can storm this tread with a hundred of crying italian people asking for patch and bugfixes!!!

    please the community!

  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member FearZeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    thx for you opinion CBR I might just agree with you, we are currently working over time on a new list please bare with us..

    Riki can you put your name down on the list above that say petition please and if your clan is in favour, get those to post there too...

    Many thx to lrossa for thier support ;)

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member ElmarkOFear's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    How about this breakdown for organzing the MP issues:

    1. MP Lobby Post-Patch bugs - List the technical problems found: Ex. Trying to log-on and the de-synching problem (if still there).

    2. In-Game bugs: - List the mechanical problems with the game such as: Units when grouped often ignoring commands (give examples of this), Units getting stuck in castle gates during seiges, Any pathfinding problems (list units and situations), etc . . . Try to offer up replays or example situations so CA can try to repeat these and view first-hand what the problems are. Will speed up the process a lot.

    2. MP Lobby features from STW/MTW which have been left out and which the MP community has found useful: - List the items you miss: Ex. Ignore feature, private chat windows feature, ping listing, more detailed game settings for hosted games, etc . . even requests for changes to the look of the MP lobby (The moving pictures in the background give this old man a headache! hehe)

    3. In-Game features from STW/MTW which have been left out/changed and which the MP community has found useful: - This would be for items such as: Logfiles, better replay feature with unit info, status shown like in MTW, more MP maps or a map editor, the "rout" and "withdraw" commands which help shorten length of wasted time in games killing last unit, A classic MTW control/camera view system, simple chat like in MTW (less clicks), 1 player/1 faction limit in the MP games, 4v4 MP games, More host options/abilities (like changing denarii to allow any level to be set by host, etc . .

    4. [U]Miscellaneous items which cannot be easily placed in above sections.[/U]

    5. A wishlist of things which the MP community would like to see added: Ex. A ladder/ranking system, Voice command (like TeamSpeak) included, etc . .


    All of these areas need to be sorted 1 thru ?, by importance to the community. Remember to provide hard evidence in the way of Replays, or details of the units, game type, map, and any other details of when/where/how the problems occured. Screenshots would even help. The more info. the better.

    If this is done in a non-critical (non-ranting) manner, it will help speed the patching process along considerably and maybe give CA a bit of time to add features they might normally not have time to. It will also possibly give CA some ideas for future development.

    I know everyone on both sides is very unhappy and unsettled by recent events. If CA is willing to work with the MP community and forge a working relationship and openly communicate (when problems arise that will not allow changes to be made), I am positive the MP community will stand behind them and give them the benefit of the doubt and possibly offer up some alternatives which would at least improve the problem spots. I think the lack of communication for over a year by CA, has created a bigger problem than if they had just come out and said: "We are changing RTW to be more friendly to new players, but want to keep the MP community satisfied as well." Then run a few ideas by the community (without giving away details which competitors might use) and see what the MP community can come up with.

    For example:

    CA: We are considering changing the camera views to be more RTS-like, to attract RTS players (who may never have considered this game before). What kind of camera views are important to MP play and how could we change them to help attract this new market?"

    MP Community: "Being able to easily identify one's units and the ability and the ability to quickly move around the map are two of the most important things concerning the camera view. The MP community is not as worried about the graphics as they are about gameplay. The camera view should allow easy identification and also be close enough to the action to make selecting units easy, while also being far enough away to allow for an overall view of the battlefield. These two critical views could be set by hotkeys or by a mouse scroll button. It is a delicate balance, but views found in MTW combined with a view such as the -ian command provided would be excellent for MP play. The up-close view could be offered as an option to be turned off by the MP community as well."


    Civil discussions such as these would have limited the problems you are seeing today. To also help keep things more organized and simple, the community could elect representatives from each of the main forums: .com, .org., .net. TWC etc . . to be the contact points for the whole community. These elected representatives could offer up ideas which CA would like to discuss, and then lead the community discussions, sort, organize the most important points and then offer them back to CA for them to look at. It would save time from CA employees' busy schedules, yet would offer them a glimpse of how changes would impact the MP community.

    If CA's market strategy is to open up the game to the RTS and eventually to the console crowd, then they must also realize that these two markets LIVE for the multiplayer experience. RTS is nothing unless you are beating human opponents: No AI, no matter how good, can stand up to hundreds of humans who analyze its every move. Console games all offer up a multiplayer experience, whether it is a LAN type one with many Consoles being networked, or an XBox LIVE! type of setup. Multiplayer is extremely important to these two groups.

    Sorry to have been long-winded, but I felt these items needed to be addressed if the TW series is to have a long and prosperous shelf-life like its first 2 games STW and MTW did.

    UglyElmo
    I have seen the future of TW MP and it is XBox Live!

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member FearZeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Elmo add me to your msn messenger, we are currently working on an improved list in that sort of order, can you help out pls i am currently buzzing from forum to forum at the mo so don't have time to read lengthy topics at the mo but will i assure you m8 ;)

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member FearZeus's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    sorry here is my hotmail address fearzeus@hotmail.com

  10. #10
    Member Member Morindin's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Has CA actually stated they aim to take RTS to console gaming or is this just a bitter assumption by many people here?
    The logic seems to be "RTW = RTS, RTS = Kids, Consoles = kids, my god, CA is trying to make TW console games!"

    RTS games have never really been successful on console platforms, and the best PC RTS games are definately not available on consoles, so this move would really surprize me.

    I own a PS2 / Xbox and a PC, and by far RTS games are far more enjoyable on PC and would be extremely tedious on a console machine due to the limited controls (two mini joysticks).
    The only RTS game Ive ever really played on a console was Age of Kings, and it was pretty piss poor compared to the PC version.

    Im also quite surprized by the comments on how multiplayer and console is everything.
    A lot of console games are actually pretty crap in the multiplayer department with a few rare exceptions, the heavy majority of them being ONE PLAYER. The other online RTS games are plagued with pretty much the same problems as RTW - gamespy.

    The rare exception is Blizzard games due to the ease and success of their battle.net system they can ignore gamespy completely.

    Despite the harping on in this forum, single player is hardly dead.
    There was a period a while ago where most FPS games would not even really have a single player part, but Doom3 single player is the only good thing about it - HL2 will definately be single player orientated, and while a few console games are moving to multiplayer enviroments they are sorely lacking compared to their singleplayer counterparts (mostly just being a "deathmatch" only version of what they are in single player).
    Talk is cheap - Supply exceeds Demand.

  11. #11
    robotica erotica Member Colovion's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Elmo if only the gaming community was organized in such a way where the devs and the community are so interconnected as that....

    Unfortunately it's not - yet.
    robotica erotica

  12. #12
    Member Member Surprise's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    I am totally on CA's side for this argument.
    If someone would make a reasonable list that follows CA's Guidelines I would be very happy to support it, and I would expect CA to fix the problems as soon as they could.

  13. #13

    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    game killer the CA have has kill a dream 4 can say:"look we can do a new game only for $$$$ not 4 the player"

  14. #14

    Smile Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    I agree with Panda that the "list" is a bit disorganised but maybe thats because of the sheer weight of bugs glitches and things that could do with patching. Perhaps Panda has lost sight of the fact that many many Rome players have graduated from Shogun and expect certain features to remain as standard simply because they enable effective MP and tournaments or allow us to talk honourably without flaming or name misuse. Many of the key features of Shogun were hard to improve upon and were carried over to MTW and VI. To ditch them or ignore someone who has spent much time putting together a list of suggested improvements (even if a bit muddled and in one or two places personal opinion) is doing great dishonour to the TW community..... I will be signing the petition...

  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member ElmarkOFear's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Morindin: It was stated in the flash program that came with the RTW Demo download: CA is working on a TW game for the XBox and other consoles. That is where I got my thought on that. The RTS view camera mode, The speed of the battles, The interface, are all typical RTS fare, so I am not far off with my assumptions there.

    As for RTS and Console games having a lousy MP experience. That is partly true of the console crowd, but the RTS genre's success has always been its MP side. There are not many RTS games which had a good SP and bad MP that are still around. The successful ones all have a great MP side.

    Console games are increasingly offering up MP. Look at XBox LIVE! It has some great MP titles. Most of the successful console games have some sort of MP side to them. Even Pokemon, Mario Brothers, Mario Cart racing for the GameCube, Crimson Skies, BurnOut 3, Ghost Recon for the XBox, and I am not sure of the Playstation 2. This is a huge profitable market. Console game publishers and makers make more money than their top PC game counterparts. I can see why TW would want to join that market. Also, Activision is heavily invested in and involved in the console market. TW would be a gem among gems if it is ported to console in anything like its current form.

    The PC has a lot more to offer for the TW series than console, but console is where the money is at. Gotta hope the changes made do not ruin it for us PC types. :)
    I have seen the future of TW MP and it is XBox Live!

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member ElmarkOFear's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Sorry Zeus I am at work and will have to wait until I get home before I can chat with you. Firewall and all won't let me. :)
    I have seen the future of TW MP and it is XBox Live!

  17. #17
    Member Member Morindin's Avatar
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    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    Quote Originally Posted by ElmarkOFear
    Morindin: It was stated in the flash program that came with the RTW Demo download: CA is working on a TW game for the XBox and other consoles. That is where I got my thought on that. The RTS view camera mode, The speed of the battles, The interface, are all typical RTS fare, so I am not far off with my assumptions there.

    As for RTS and Console games having a lousy MP experience. That is partly true of the console crowd, but the RTS genre's success has always been its MP side. There are not many RTS games which had a good SP and bad MP that are still around. The successful ones all have a great MP side.

    Console games are increasingly offering up MP. Look at XBox LIVE! It has some great MP titles. Most of the successful console games have some sort of MP side to them. Even Pokemon, Mario Brothers, Mario Cart racing for the GameCube, Crimson Skies, BurnOut 3, Ghost Recon for the XBox, and I am not sure of the Playstation 2. This is a huge profitable market. Console game publishers and makers make more money than their top PC game counterparts. I can see why TW would want to join that market. Also, Activision is heavily invested in and involved in the console market. TW would be a gem among gems if it is ported to console in anything like its current form.

    The PC has a lot more to offer for the TW series than console, but console is where the money is at. Gotta hope the changes made do not ruin it for us PC types. :)
    Well good luck to CA with that. If they manage to compress RTW down to 7 hours gameplay 12 stages, and extremely limited controls then it might work. ;)

    I guess the reason the console market is where 'the money is at' is because you need only make a game worth 7 hours and sell it for the same price.
    However computers are becoming increasingly popular with youngsters now, I know a lot of kids from various families and neighbourhoods aged 8-14 who pretty much let their playstations rott away while all playing PC games.
    Computers are also so damn cheap these days they're quite affordable.

    The longest games Ive ever played on any console in recent times have been Dark Alliance : Baldurs Gate. That's because they're made from Bioware, and RPG games are also very fitting on a console system. Having said that BG:DA is a far cry from the PC version - especially NWN.

    I really have my doubts about a 100+ hour RTS game with quite difficult controls to ever be appealing on the console market.

    Also, my point about RTS PC games was that yes they have good multiplayer, but they also have very good single player. Infact Rise of Nations recent expansion pack was pretty much totally aimed at single player (and that game has extradionary AI btw).
    Last edited by Morindin; 10-07-2004 at 01:57.
    Talk is cheap - Supply exceeds Demand.

  18. #18

    Default Re: RTW multiplayer is dead

    I dont think anyone wants to remove the advanced chat options. Its how you are forced to press several keys just to type in normal chat that is akward. Other games use t and y like we had in STW/MTW and one other key for the advanced options.
    - i agree t for all and y for allies was simple and fast. they should have just left that alone and added an extra letter to press that brings up the list for chatting to just one player.

    i'm ok with the camera controls, i've changed it to the way i like. still can't figure out how to keep the same facing when moving a distance with the whole army, is it possible? also gets annoying when a general dies it dose that scene of him getting killed close up... no need for that. you could be in the middle of giving orders or preparing for a charge.. and every secound counts, is there a way to disable this?

    also miss the private chat box and 8player battles...

    so many changes.. why why why?

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