Problem beating battle of Carrhae

[cooldragon]

I have been trying to beat this historic battle for 6 hours straight and i still havent done it. Its almost impossible. I tried surrounding the heavy cavlry with my infantry but then the cavlry archers just charge into my infantry.
I use my cavlry to chase the cavlry archers but i can never get them. Eventually my infantry die out and my cavlry slowly gets run over.

Can anyone please help? this battle is too frustrating.

Also i am playing on meduim difficulty.

[chemchok]

Whoaa... I just played the battle twice, first on VH, then on medium. I was slaughtered on VH; as in 22 kills and 15 men remaining. On medium I managed to get 282 kills, but it was still a horrible defeat.

Here's what I did on medium during the initial pause. Make your general chase the cav archers that are directly behind your formation. Make your other cav unit chase off one of the cav archer groups to either the left or right. Meanwhile, get all of your units that are not on the front line out of the tetsudo formation. Once they're out, have them run into formation creating a thick band just behind the front line infantry that are still in tetsudos. Put them in guard and fire at will mode to await the oncoming cataphracts.

Meanwhile, keep your two cav units chasing away the archer cav, make sure it's just far enough for the archers to be busy moving rather than firing... so chase a bit, pick a new target, rinse and repeat. By now the cataphracts should have hit. Have your cavalry run around the infantry/cataphract mess, chasing archers away, and slamming into (and then QUICKLY retreating from) any archers that try to charge your legionnaries.

This was working somewhat until I missed a half-strength cohort run after a routing cataphract unit, the battle was just too close to let anyone run away from the fray. Anyway, tell me what you think, or post your battle results so I can get an idea of how it's going for you.

[cooldragon]

I will try your idea. one big problem i have with the infantry is that they can't charge. They first trow their javelins and when they do that they get run over by the cavlry. Dumbest infantry i have seen.

Also i dont see any point in keeping the testudo formation. You only lose a few infantry to to CA's but you lose all your troops to a cavlry charge with that formation.

Also the other cavlry that come from behind the mountain just murder my infantry from the flank. Add that to the fact that if you don't surround the first cavlry they run back and charge again.

I actually tried most of the historic battles yesterday but before i played this battle i promised myself that i will beat this one. Luckily for me, i picked the most impossible battle ever.

[chemchok]

The theory behind keeping the units in the front in tetsudo was to soak up the arrows from the cav archers since they're mostly towards the front of your formation. It's probably a better idea to have them get out at the last minute possible before the cats hit.

It's an extremely hard battle, and the worst tactical blunder is already made before you even start playing.

[bigredlemon]

And i thought i was the only one!

btw, presuming we kill off the cats... how the heck do we take on the horse archers? they'll keep running away while firing at you!

[Noong]

They have to run out of arrows some time.... hehe

[bigredlemon]

Well i thought up another possible start:

use the two calvary to heard the horse archer into your infantry... have the cavs flank a archer or two from behind/sides so it has no where to go but toward your infantry. Keep all of the in testudo formation except two units closeest to where you're hearding them. have the two infantry alt charge the cav archers while hearding and then charging them.

You should be able to kill off one or two archers this way before the cats get here. Then remove testudo formation. Have the infantry that the cats are charging into counter alt charge, while the other infanty javelin charge. Position your cavs in front and to the side of the infantry and charge into the back of the cats and pull out just in time for the flank infatry to charge in after chucking the javlins. The cats are now suroounded.

You'll probably need to keep them a bit awar from the infantry at first so that the cats don't charge your cavs first. (you'll lose them quick.) Or if they do charge you, i guess luring away two cats isn't too bad, but it'll be hard to shake them off without losing some cavs which you'll very much need for the horse archers later. After taking care of teh cats, repeat the hearding trick ti finish the horse archers.

If you do it all right, i think you could pull out with a victory.

[bigredlemon]

Oh year, tried to use your cavs to heard the archers away from the back of your infantry line, where they're weakest. If they can only shoot at your through the front, they'll probably hit a few of their cats too.

[cooldragon]

Chemok i tried your strategy and well it didn't work. I have been able to surround the Heavy cavlry and killed about 200 of them but then the CA's jump in and charge from 5 directions.

To surround the heavy cavlry i took my 2nd line which has 2 units and i took them out of the testudo formation. then i made them run to each side of the front line and move them up. THen when the cavlry charges the 2 units can charge the cavlry from the back of the cavlry.

The only problem is that they charge too late. If they would charge right when i tell them i would be able to kill them quickly. I may just give up on it till someone comes up with some crazy strategy.

[bigredlemon]

They have to run out of arrows some time.... hehe

I recall placing archers beside the computer town square watching them just chuck away at the idiots waiting in the middle. Let me tell you... waiting for me to run out of arrows has not brought them success.

[bigredlemon]

I may just give up on it till someone comes up with some crazy strategy.

try mine

[cooldragon]

I did not see your strategy bigredlemon. That looks like a good strategy. However i dont understand how i can force the CA's into my infantry with my cavlry before the heavy cavlry charge.

Also how do i countercharge without them throwing javelin?

thanks for all the help guys.

[bigredlemon]

I did not see your strategy bigredlemon. That looks like a good strategy. However i dont understand how i can force the CA's into my infantry with my cavlry before the heavy cavlry charge.

Also how do i countercharge without them throwing javelin?

thanks for all the help guys.

run one cav around behind and to the left of the horse archers, and run the other behind and to the right. This will force the CA to run straight forward. You can have them charge without throwing by holding alt while double clicking.

[chemchok]

Chemok i tried your strategy and well it didn't work. I have been able to surround the Heavy cavlry and killed about 200 of them but then the CA's jump in and charge from 5 directions.

To surround the heavy cavlry i took my 2nd line which has 2 units and i took them out of the testudo formation. then i made them run to each side of the front line and move them up. THen when the cavlry charges the 2 units can charge the cavlry from the back of the cavlry.

The only problem is that they charge too late. If they would charge right when i tell them i would be able to kill them quickly. I may just give up on it till someone comes up with some crazy strategy.

Yeah, I tried my idea a couple of times and I kept on getting kills in the mid 200's but no victory. The turning point was always the 2nd group of cats that come from behind the hill. They either chase away/kill my cav or destroy one side of my already weakened and embattled infantry. I like your idea of sending the two units ahead and then charging back, maybe I'll give it a try.

@bigredlemon, I wasn't able to herd any of the archers back toward my infantry before the cat charge hits. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's seems really hard to be able to pull that off in time. Still, I'll try your counter-charge/flank idea, it definitely has promise. BTW, did you manage to get a victory?

[Ptah]

Possibly an alternative:

The problem is that there are two Parthian armies with two generals. While the kataphracts are devastating, so are the horse archers(gold level weapon upgrades.. damn it!). When you think of it the losses from the horse archers seem to be actually larger than the losses sustained from kataphracts.

I've noticed there is a very steep but small hill behind your lines, and an enemy general is stalking out there. At the beginning of the battle, as quickly as possible, send your general's cavalry and Roman cavalries to the hill to kill the enemy general(this guy's the leader of the horse archers) as fast as you can.

At the same time, sacrifice two~three infantry cohorts to stop the initial kataphract charge and buy some time, while the rest five~six cohorts run ASAP to the hilltop.

I almost won the battle on medium difficulty - I'm pretty sure it was by luck(but you need it in a situation like this! :) ). I managed to kill the general of the horse archers very quickly with minimal losses. Subsequently, the horse archers supported the kataphracts and charged with them to my infantry, but by some miracle, the 5 units of cohorts managed to hold the lines at the hilltop.

Incredibly, all of the enemy cavalry routed after a short but brutal fight. I've also sustained very heavy losses, and only about 30 infantry remained(total of all the five cohorts) plus 12 bodyguard cavalry. The Roman cavalry was all dead.

The only enemy unit left was the enemy general of the kataphracts, and he killed my general which was the end of it all - but this was as close as I came to winning the fight. I've tried different and same tactics many times, but never came that close to winning.

[cooldragon]

Ptah i tried your strategy and it didn't work too well. It is really difficult to pull off.

So far the highest i have been able to kill is 350 troops but i always lose.
I can easily beat it on easy but it is too difficult to rout the horse archers. they are always able to run away.

[Underhand]

You want a crazy strategy? Try out my idea (based on a true story! Well, an account of one of Alexander the Great's battles...).

Since I don't have time to be obsessed with a game right now and so don't own RTW, there is no guarantee that this will work. This is the closest I can get to actually commanding these battles

[chemchok]

This is one of those situations where you really can't appreciate what a cataphract charge is going to do to a formation of Roman centurions unless you see them flying through the air like bowling pins in the game.

Anyway, that encirclement tactic is not going to work Underhand.
1. The cav archers will not focus on just one unit.
2. There isn't enough time to take the Roman infantry out of their defensive formation and then move them in position before the cats hit.

[Underhand]

Fair enough. I guess I'll just have a shot as and when I get the game.

[Ptah]

Ptah i tried your strategy and it didn't work too well. It is really difficult to pull off.

So far the highest i have been able to kill is 350 troops but i always lose.
I can easily beat it on easy but it is too difficult to rout the horse archers. they are always able to run away.

I know - that's why I said it needs luck.

Frankly, the most difficult thing in this battle is not the fighting itself, but getting the damned legionaries to break the testudo and respond to input. So, if you're lucky, most of the lehionaries will make the rush to the hill. If you're not, by the time they break the testudo the kataphracts are already killing them.

[bigredlemon]

I just tried the battle of carrhae again and WON! Woohoo.

Seems like the secret is obvious: get out of testudo formation asap, and form a line facing the cat charge that is two units thick. Forget about the archers. At the same time, send your two cavs forward and to the sides to chase away the cavs while getting into position to charge into the back of the cats after they charge your infantry.


As the cat appraoches, counter alt-charge them with your first line of cohorts, and regular charge the second line with the javlins The cats should get just deep enough within the first unit but not make it to the second. This allows the two flanking rear units to wrap around and attack the flanks of the cats. Then alt charge the two middle coharts in. They won't do much fighting, but are needed when the cav archers charge. you will counter alt charge them as they charge you.

in the meantime, after charging into the back of cats with your cavs, pull out far enough to chase away the front side archers, then charge back into the back of the cats. after the rear cav archers charged and gets stuck, you only have to worry about the two side cav archers, who are only hitting your wrap around flanks.

note that since there's periodically one side open, the units has a means of routing so "fight to the death" won't kick in.

eventually one side of the cats will be wiped out, freeing up some spare coharts to handle charges from the side cav archers. attack the flank/rear of the cats until you see the cav archers charge, then counter charge them with your cohort unit. pull out your cavs from the front and move them to the sides. one will keep away cav archers while the other will charge into the back of the charging cav archers.

after that, use your own judgement. There should be one two mostly-dead cataphracs unit left and a few cav archers units that are out of ammo by now. When the last cat charges you, counter charge with your two rear cohorts. Charge your side cav at the old cats that the coharts had been engaged with. The cats should be chasing your charging coharts, so a flank charge should take out most of the remaning ones. Follow up by sending whatever you can spare to finish off the cats. counter charge cav archers as needed. it'll just be mopping up from here. Of course use the general's rally if you see your units routing... you need every one!

I ended up with about 5 cohart units and 1 cav unit left, but didn't get out of testudo formation fast enough. (two the units stayed in testudo and won't get out, and were killed pretty quickly.) So if everything happened right, you should have a lot more to spare.

[panchoamd]

Nice Tactic!!
I try this, with the most high level of casualties of the various attempts.
I first try other tactics, and i have 170kills max, but with this, i have 270kills.
Of course, i lost the battle, but i be to close to win...
Thanks!!

[bigredlemon]

Nice Tactic!!
I try this, with the most high level of casualties of the various attempts.
I first try other tactics, and i have 170kills max, but with this, i have 270kills.
Of course, i lost the battle, but i be to close to win...
Thanks!!

have you tried it on medium difficulty? they is trying to get at least one of their units to route. If none of them route, you can still win but it'll be close. If one of them route, you'll have a free unit to charge flank into their back and absolutely crush them.

[cerberusti]

I beat Carrhae on medium difficulty... after about ten tries. I held the highest part of the hill almost directly behind where you start.

I actually killed less than 300 units, but their horse archers killed some of their own as well.

My best on units killed was 370 (setting everyone to loose formation before the cat charge), although I was completely destroyed.

Battle flow for the winning battle was as follows:

1) Battle Starts
2) Immediately get all legions out of testudo, have calvalry run around after archers.
3) The moment legions are out of testudo, they run like mad toward the highest point on the hill behind them.
4) Just before I reached the hill, I had one of the legions charge the oncoming cataphracts (they were getting too close.)
5) As the sacrifice legion hits the cataphracts, both my calvalry units hit them from behind
6) Cataphracts destroy sacrifice legion and run after my calvalry, which are fleeing to the top of the hill.
7) All legions except sacrifice legion (which routed with two units left) arrive at the hilltop
8) Enemy general (the one in cataphract armor) charges
9) One legion countercharges the enemy general
10) Enemy general impacts legion, both my calvalry hit him almost immediately from behind.
11) Two legions countercharge the cataphracts coming up the hill, all others (except the one on the general) throw javilins and attack
12) Enemy general in cataphract armor routes
13) Remaining members of the anti-general legion throw javilins and attack, my calvalry hits the cataphracts from behind a few times.
14) Cataphracts route.
15) Archers exhaust their arrows (I used testudo for the two hardest hit legions, which were a bit out front.)
16) Second general charges (the one with the normal generals calvalry), along with two horse archer units.
17) Out of testudo, one legion countercharges each oncoming unit, both calvalry charge the general
18) First general (the one in cataphract armor) stops routing and charges
19) Roman calvalry (non general) charge general in cataphract armor and are destroyed to a man (but the general charge stops)
20) Send one legion and my general after general in cataphract armor
21) One horse archer unit routes
22) Enemy general in cataphract armor routes and is killed
23) Enemy general in normal armor is killed (although the unit does not route)
24) Two more horse archer units run out of ammo and charge
25) One more horse archer unit routes
26) All legions countercharge the two charging horse archers
27) Both charging horse archer units impact
28) My generals calvalry hits the back of the last horse archer unit from the first wave, which routes
29) The two horse archer units which just charged route
30) Enemy generals calvalry (from the dead general in normal armor) is destroyed
31) Last horse archer unit charges, all of my units countercharge, the horse archer routes before impact.
32) The battle is won, I had 39 men across six cohorts and 7 of my general calvalry left at the end, enough for a Close Victory.

Screenshots from the win screen:

http://culsu.net/carrhae_win.jpg
http://culsu.net/carrhae_win2.jpg

[rmlindley]

I know this is now a bit old, but I was so pleased to finally beat Carrhae that I had to post...

Like Cerberusti I went for the big hill behind and to the right of where you start. I have now beaten the game multiple times using this strategy on medium.

Firstly, set you cavalry to charge the archers behind and to the left of you as you start. This is to drive the horse archers (HA) away.

Put all legions into standard formation asap. Also fire at will.

As soon as they are out of testudo, pull the center two legions back at charge speed. The idea is to turn the n formation you start with to a u that the cats will charge into. You will have just enough time to pull the units back and turn them to face the cats.

Meanwhile have you cavalry charge forwards after driving the HAs away for a short distance.

Target you cavalry to charge the flanking cat units on either side. This completely disrupts their charge. Meanwhile the two center cat units rush into your u shape - charge them from the sides and behind.

The cats will rout with heavy losses in less than 30s. Do not chase them.

Start running all units to the hill behind your starting position. If you are lucky a few HA units will charge you - turn and kill them (your cavalry is v good at this) then continue.

You will meet the enemy general on the way to the hill - overwhelm and kill him

Get to the top of the hill, put you general way back out of arrow range and put all your legions into testudo.

Wait for the HAs to run out of ammo.

You will have to come out of testudo to deal with the other enemy general charge - get back in asap.

Once the HAs start charging up the hill (out of ammo) your legions can easily defeat them. If you can spare a cavalry unit, chase routing units off the map cos otherwise they regroup and cause more hassle.

I usually have 370+ kills with this strategy and 40+ troops surviving. Keep your general alove at all costs

[overlord_88]

This battle took me ages as well, beat it playing on Medium 357 Kills 185 Men surviving

At the start of the battle, move all infantry into standard formation. All units fire at will.
Have the general charge the HA behind you, do not stop until it routs.
Have the other cav unit charge the one on the left.

Move the two frontal infantry units into the back, so your units form an 'U' Shape

By this time your infantry will be firing their javelins and routing the HA on the right, and the normal cav unit would've routed his target. Change his target to another HA.

Once the cav routs that unit, immediately charge into the rear of the enemy Cataphract, thats where he will be fighting and dying for the rest of the battle.

Once your general routs the rear unit, have him charge at the Cataphract general, he is stronger and he can definitely beat it.

Meanwhile the rest of the cataphracts will be suffering heavy casualties and the Eastern General will be charging, take him head on with your surviving soldiers. Once he's dead the battle is over, have your general mop up any surviving horse archers.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Holy thread necromancy!! Almost 6 year old thread?? :O