Friendly Fire is just silly

**Ulstan** · 10-06-2004, 19:31

And this time, I wasn't even the one to blame!

I lost a lot of hastati before by walking in front of some archers firing uphill, but ignored it because, well that was my fault.

But in a battle i just had, I took 2 units of velites, and told them to cross the map and harass a gallic warband unit.

The AI moved them up, so they were all standing intermixed in the same plot of ground, and they all started throwing javelins.

Well by the time they were done I had lost 20 velites to only 60 warband guys dead.

This is kind of silly, especially considering both were all standing in the same spot on the ground - it's not as though one guy walked through the others line of fire.

Let me put it this way - by all rights, using that pattern of 'friendly fire' just one unit of velites standing firing should be picking off their own men.

**Oaty** · 10-06-2004, 23:22

Yes friendly fire is bad and its kinda funny they wo'nt hit guys in there own unit but can hit guys in another unit just standing side by side. Another way to reduce friendly fire is to put skirmishers in guard mode, that will make them much less likely to fire on routers

**Osbot** · 10-06-2004, 23:49

Put your archers on guard. That way they dont break their formation to chase people. About the problem with units intermingling and killing each other...It's realistic in a way, I mean if you started running through a formation of archers shooting its possible you'd get shot. However nobody in their right mind would do that unless totally desperate, so i'd like to see it fixed.

**Colovion** · 10-06-2004, 23:54

The friendly fire 'bug' would easily be fixed just to say that no friendly units can die when in the missile troop's formation but can get killed if are on teh recieving end of an arrow once it's left the Archer/Velite formation proximity - so that still makes you need to watch out and not have your archers firing at too flat of a trajectory

**Bigwig** · 10-07-2004, 00:31

I want to just take off friendly fire completely, because it's doing a lot more harm than good right now. I can cope with the "unrealisticness" of being able to fire into a group of guys fighting without killing any of my own men much more than the "unrealisticness" of my archers point blanking my troops, just because they happen to be walking through.

**afrit** · 10-07-2004, 01:48

Originally Posted by Bigwig

I want to just take off friendly fire completely, because it's doing a lot more harm than good right now. I can cope with the "unrealisticness" of being able to fire into a group of guys fighting without killing any of my own men much more than the "unrealisticness" of my archers point blanking my troops, just because they happen to be walking through.

The "realistic" behaviour if you have a unit intermingling with the archers SHOULD be for the archers NOT to fire and say "our view is blocked" or something like that instead of killing their comrades!!

In MTW, fire-at-will did not shoot in a melee. You had to order teh missiles to fire to do that. I would like to see that behavior back.

Afrit

**Colovion** · 10-07-2004, 03:53

Originally Posted by afrit

The "realistic" behaviour if you have a unit intermingling with the archers SHOULD be for the archers NOT to fire and say "our view is blocked" or something like that instead of killing their comrades!!

In MTW, fire-at-will did not shoot in a melee. You had to order teh missiles to fire to do that. I would like to see that behavior back.

Afrit

there's a lot of "Back to MTW" things which would be nice. Lots of them are things that aren't really feasible (like kill rate) because this is a brand new game so it has a different feel. I can understand that - but taking things out of the game like this, the Prisoners thing and various other "steps backwards" which RTW has made behind MTW is really strange. Some things make sense, but others should just be a given.

**andrewt** · 10-07-2004, 05:29

Another annoying friendly fire occurence is when I tell my archers to stop firing and even turn off fire at will because I will make some cavalry chase down the enemy. They still shoot 1-2 more volleys before they stop. It doesn't even matter if all the enemy are already dead and only my troops are left in the spot where they are used to be. They would still fire off a few volleys before stopping.

**Indylavi** · 10-07-2004, 05:44

I've had the same problem Andrew. Except I can't get them to stop no matter what I do. I turn fire at will off. I even move them. Yet they still seem to fire until they are out of ammo. The only thing I can do is change what they shoot at

**metatron** · 10-07-2004, 06:51

This problem existed back in MTW, although it might've been less aparent by the more manuverable units.

Even playing the Napoleonic mod, if I'm not paying attention, I can loose a regiment quickly if they cross into another's line of fire.

**dlundie** · 10-07-2004, 06:59

I think its pretty ok myself, depends on your game play style but i consider archers and such to be area effect fire, i really dont think that they will be that accurate as a large group firing and so they hit an area more than the unit itself. Its something you just have to remember as one of your troops limits. And it makes me laugh abit because i always recall Braveheart {movie} were the king ordered the archers to fire even though it would hit his own troops, why?, because it would also hit the enemy troops.

**metatron** · 10-07-2004, 07:54

I think the problem might lie in two areas. First, I think the archers shoot more at a smaller angle, thus directly over head your troops. Second, if the engine is anything like MTW, only the first two rows can see their target, the other lines are just shooting blindly.

**Ulstan** · 10-07-2004, 16:03

I don't mind my archers hitting my own men if they wander across their line of fire where the arrows are landing.

I *do* mind the archers killing my own men sharing the same exact space where the arrows are being launched! That's just silly.

Two acher units sharing the same 'footprint' should not be massacring each other when they fire.

**SirGrotius** · 10-07-2004, 17:20

Originally Posted by Indylavi

I've had the same problem Andrew. Except I can't get them to stop no matter what I do. I turn fire at will off. I even move them. Yet they still seem to fire until they are out of ammo. The only thing I can do is change what they shoot at

Try turning off fire at will and then pressing halt. They'll shoot off another round (or two if they were already in the process of aiming while you pressed halt), but it's better than what you just described.

It's as though archers have no brain in this game.