Absurdly weak Carthage!!!

[Spartiate]

I started a campaign as Carthage and was annoyed at how weak they really were.Someone had a thread going here last week about this and i admit i scoffed at what i thought of as their inability to "deal" with a tough campaign.Boy was i wrong.Caralis has changed hands now 4/5 times with the Scipii currently holding it.I hold all of Sicily now but to be honest i have lost more troops on that blood soaked little island than the 4 Roman factions put together.My last reclamation of Messena was not too long ago.In the end i had to put together an expenditionary force under Hannibal himself.I invaded Italy and sacked the Scipii capitol and slaughtered the lot of them.I then moved on immediately and laid siege to Rome Itself.This had had the desired effect as the Roman armies are now all after my Italian force rather than down in Sicily or Africa but its a bit like Benny Hill with them chasing me all over Italy.
The Carthaginian troops are simply not up to the job of taking on Roman troops in a head on fight.I have had to flank and rear attack EVERY time while hoping my infantry will hold just long enough for the cav to arrive.
I have now modded the game(for AI use) for future campaigns to start the Carthaginians with more money and as soon as i figure out how they will get Sacred Band earlier(along with elephants the only units to stand up to Rome)and cheaper AND it won't take them 2 turns to train them.
Carthage deserved better from CA as it was political ineptness and not the strength of it's armies that laid it low.

[LittleRaven]

Err...Carthage is hard, but not that hard. It's true your troops are weak, but they're also cheap, and Carthage in human hands can be very rich very quickly. So even though Iberian infantry suck, you can have hordes and hordes of them. ;)

Plus, wander around Spain and pick up some Baeleric Slingers and watch them cut your enemies to bits.

Round shield cavalry are also quite effective for their cost. And elephants are nigh unstoppable if you use them right.

Now Spain....that's a weak faction.

[Spartiate]

I actually wrote that post yesterday but couldn't get on to the site(second time in less than a week).Today as we sit here i am the proud owner of Rome and Capua and Arretium is under seige.I find all but the SB cavalry to be completely useless if left to their own devices.Iberian infantry?............what can i say.If i build hordes of them it just means the ones at the front route(even against Hastati) and panic the rest.Don't get me wrong,i enjoy the challenge but as i said i cannot auto-resolve even when i outnumber the enemy 2 to 1 because the AI gives the Romans the battle every time.
I shouldn't be complaining because this is the challenge i always wanted(not to take anything for granted in the battles)but Carthage was the faction i most looked forward to and i was annoyed at how under-powered their troops were in the early game.

[Longasc]

I must say, if you would have built stables early on, you would have found no Roman Army a problem even in the harder early phase of Carthaginian expansion.

Round Shield and later Large Shield and somewhat later Elephants - add some Balearan Slingers for Stonewalls for defense.

You can make all Cavalry Armies and decimate the Infantry-heavy Romans.


I agree: Carthaginian Infantry are only good for Garrison use. Even the Sacred Band is not hot either.

Cavalry and Elephants all the way. Balearan Slingers are not shabby either.

I could have done better as Rome, too, as Cavalry rules this game. Besides some very special Chariots...

[Red Harvest]

The base level (round shield) Carthaginian cav are good enough on very hard/very hard. You need to hit two at a time, you will take few losses because the infantry will rout about the time they both make contact. And getting the long shield cav helps, as well as various upgrades.

Use the Balearic slingers, that will force the enemy to come to you...and your cav can slaughter them wholesale.

The Carthaginian starting position is incredibly weak though. When playing other factions the Romans take Carthage out in short order. It will bet worse if CA fixes the reluctance of the AI to blockade ports. Part of the problem is that everyone gangs up on Carthage. So you have 3 AI Roman factions, plus Numidia, Spain, and Gaul going after them on the ground, plus the Senate boats will attack them at sea.

[Longshanks]

I was disappointed with Carthage also. I expected it to be the biggest challenge for the Roman factions (as it was historically), but in game that isn't the case at all. It isn't as rich as it should be, and it's units are rather weak. An AI controlled Carthage ALWAYS gets easily destroyed by the Romans.

IMO that has to be modded. I'll probably nerf the Egyptians somewhat while making Carthage more formidable. The most powerful faction in Africa should be Carthage, not Egypt.

[Warmaker]

Wasn't Carthage's infantry inferior to Rome's to begin with? I recall from a book regarding Cannae... Hannibal was sure enough that his center, composed of infantry, could not hold up to the immense push from the Legionnaires. He counted and planned for his center to bend, but not break, so his presence was required there to prevent a disaster. His cavalry on the other hand, which were on the flanks were quite excellent and cut apart their Roman equivalents and "sealed the deal" by attacking the rear of the Romans.

I haven't tried playing as Carthage, but from the occasions that I've faced them with Julii... their infantry can be easily managed by Roman infantry, but their Cavalry is quite deadly against Rome.

A quick, simple use for Carthagenian infantry is just meatshields for the Legionnaires, while the true punch of the Carthagenian Army is the Cavalry and a few Elephants.

[King Azzole]

I just started a carthage campaign tonight to take a break from my greek campaign. I managed to not lose a single settlement and actually take all of sicily, slay most of the scipii family, and conquer the numidians to take control of west africa. I am now going to invade egypt. I did all this in 20 years (40 rounds). The only thing I think is nerfed about the carthaginians is there trade. You dont get much, not like the greeks who get massive amounts of loot with the aegean under there control. And the Iberian Infantry are sorta worthless, but they have good "defensive skill" unlike the romans who rely on shield power. So dont be fooled by there stats. They are decent against other light infantry that would seem to be able to cream them. Oh... and Elephants are EVERYTHING. YOu need at least one group of them with every army, cause they wreck SHOP.

[ChaosDrake]

ive played carthage(on expert) now and i think they are very strong ihave made an alliance with numidia and the greek city states with millitary access no one of them have broken the treaty and i played them several years, i control now complete spain,sicily and the city of capua and the mediterranean sea i have never lost a city too the romans only one city in spain through civil war but i recapture them.
currently im at war with gauls and the last 2 roman nations no one of them can beat my armys.
and i dont know what i should do with the money i have, ive get so much every turn its awesome.
i think i join now my ally numidia against the egypts to have a challenge, i have heard they must be strong.

[Leet Eriksson]

get scutarii mercenaries when you are in spain and send them off to die in roman hands, a scutarii mercenary my seem weaker compared to the hastati, but the warcry gives them the upper hand, don't expect them to stand up against principes though.

[slackker]

i'm playin on hard/hard and i'm still thinkin of my nxt move...i lost cordoba after i beat back several gaul and spanish invasions then they got frustrated and bribed it after i lost my general in a careless battle...lost sardinal to juli cos i got my hands full at scily and beating back the roman navy...and numidian incursions so any tips to combat the navy?? i eleminated scipi by capturing capua, getting my peoni infantry soon..got to deal with the roman navy!! too many ships!! its 3 vs 1!!
any tips?? i'm thinkin of usin capua as a base to lure all the roman troops so i can besiege rome with hannibal! btw shouldnt hannibal start with better stats? hes only 3* and a good commander trait..i expected more.