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Thread: Sekigahara

  1. #1
    Member Member HattoriKun's Avatar
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    This year is the 400th anniversary of the battle of Sekigahara and I am surprised that nobody mentioned it in the Sword Dojo or the other forum. Is any of the old History crew around anymore (Amako, Davout, Lannes, FWSeal?)

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    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Good call HattoriKun,

    I wonder if the anniversary of Sekigahara was honored in Japan? Do the Japanese do battle reinactments like we do in the U.S.?

    As for STW it should be a new Historical Battle/map at least
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

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    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    I don't know about the others, but FWS is lurking + he has made mention of the anniversary on his site. http://www.techjapanese.com/~samurai/index.html

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

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    Senior Member Senior Member FwSeal's Avatar
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    Hey everyone,
    The Japanese do have battle reenactments, although they aren't quite like the Civil War ones in the US. I saw a video tape of a Kawanakajima reenactment a few years back, and it was, well, somewhat weak... it was conducted in Nagano (which sits on the site of the old battle) in what looked like a small soccer field (divided by a bike trail). Most of the 'spearmen' were local students who were just having a good time (sorta poking at one another with rubber spears with big smiles on their faces). Two things stood out in my mind - for one, when the Takeda 'army' came out, Wagner's 'Ride of the Valkyries' was piping in over loudspeakers. Second, when 'Kenshin' was in the process of riding up at the climax of the show to trade blows with Shingen, he actually fell off his horse! I think Chris West (the other Archives guy) might still have the tape - I'd love to have a few screen shots for the page of Kenshin teetering on his horse, then going over the side. Anyway, he was helped back up, then redid his 'charge' and the show was over.

  5. #5
    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    I will be in the Kansai area in December. I'll check out Sekigahara while I'm there. However, if there was to be a re-enactment it would be in October (the month of the battle), I imagine.

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  6. #6
    Senior Member Senior Member FwSeal's Avatar
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    Sekigahara was honored in Japan, in a way, by one of the latest NHK Taiga Dramas involving the first three Tokugawa shoguns and featuring Sekigahara. In fact, in Japan, Sekigahara is regarded as occuring on 15 September (following the lunar reckoning) while modern English histories place the battle on 21 October (the solar date).
    For Japanese readers (or anyone just curious), here is a Japanese site about Sekigahara. Only the headings are in English, but with the help of something like elingo.com, english readers might find something useful there. http://www.ginet.or.jp/sekigahara/

  7. #7

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    Hello you all.

    I have alreay made Sekigahara map for full game(Historical scenario)
    http://www.af.wakwak.com/~axial/index_english.htm

    There are scenarios in downloads page.

    Axial.

  8. #8
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    hi
    im interested in checking out some of thse maps, but is there a Readme file or anything that will help me use it?
    especially since i dont have a japanese text font. (go figure)



    [This message has been edited by solypsist (edited 11-03-2000).]

  9. #9

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    Hi solypsist.

    I wrote a Downloads section in English. http://www.af.wakwak.com/~axial/Downloads_English.htm
    Tell me if you have to encode to Japanese language.

  10. #10

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    Sorry.I thought "Tell me if you have to encode to Japanese language."isn't good expression.

    Let me know if you need to encode to the lagage again.
    better?
    I want to be polite as possible.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member FwSeal's Avatar
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    Kat, as you can see, I deleted your post. This was done not because I was insulted or embarrased by your attack on my credibility (although I especially liked your suggestion that I 'read a BOOK'.. golly, no wonder you are an expert on Japanese history...). However, this forum is not the place for insults or vendettas. If you don't like the Samurai Archives, there's an email address there to allow you to state your problems with it directly. I'd even invite you to rewrite the little bit on swords if it means that much to you. But, in the meantime, I'd also invite you to challange what I might offer here on a case-by-case basis in the future if you so desire.

  12. #12
    Member Member katwomansz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by FwSeal:
    Kat, as you can see, I deleted your post. This was done not because I was insulted or embarrased by your attack on my credibility (although I especially liked your suggestion that I 'read a BOOK'.. golly, no wonder you are an expert on Japanese history...). However, this forum is not the place for insults or vendettas. If you don't like the Samurai Archives, there's an email address there to allow you to state your problems with it directly. I'd even invite you to rewrite the little bit on swords if it means that much to you. But, in the meantime, I'd also invite you to challange what I might offer here on a case-by-case basis in the future if you so desire. [/QUOTE]

    I WAS NOT attacking YOUR credibility.
    I was specifically mentioning that the web site suggested for reading is FULL of errors in the weapons section http://www.techjapanese.com/~samurai/index.html

    If a site is suggested for reading I feel I have every right to point out to people that I DID go over point by point the errors and posted them in this very forum and the errors remain months later.

    If this forum is to suggest a site I feel there should be a warning to people that just because something is on the web doesn't mean that it is true! That is not an attack on you or anyone else! I once again suggest that if you want to learn about history you should read books on the subject. That is not a snide comment on my part that YOU don't read books or other people here don't!

    Why not let people read what I wrote and then make a decision about what to read? I think this forum could be good for discussion about what we all have read and learned!



  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member FwSeal's Avatar
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    Kat, let me make one thing clear - as moderator of this forum,my one and only rule is that posts pretain to Japanese history and culture, to include movies, books, ect... Posters are free to question the views expressed on the forum by others, but not attack the posters themselves. Nonetheless, I would have been happy to maintain your post had it contained anything pertinent. Accusing me of being an illiterate charlatan, while very amusing, hardly follows the above rule.
    In point of fact, I did make a few minor corrections to the offending page (which, by the way, constitutes literally .3% of the site as a whole) based on your suggestions, then set it aside and forgot about it (this may surprise you, but I have a life away from the computer). I also provided links to sites with much more infomation on the samurai sword. At any point you could have called my attention to this oversight on my part. Instead, you launch into an attack on this forum that attempts to drag down the credibility of the Archives as a whole - WITHOUT so much as providing one example that would expose me for the imposter I appear to be.
    At any rate, I have simply removed the 'weapons' section of the Archives for the time being. My own ego is not so great that I am willing to knowingly perpetuate inaccuracies. The primary purpose of the Samurai Archives is to introduce those interested to the great names of Japanese history. There is still somewhere around 400 pages of material for you to pick over and attack if you'd like.
    In the future, think before you post (and especially when you attack a moderator) and how you chose to post. As far as the crdibility of the Archives is concerned, readers are, as always, invited to see our list of references, both in english and Japanese, to go to the source.


    [This message has been edited by FwSeal (edited 11-12-2000).]

  14. #14
    Member Member katwomansz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by FwSeal:
    Kat, let me make one thing clear - as moderator of this forum,my one and only rule is that posts pretain to Japanese history and culture, to include movies, books, ect... Posters are free to question the views expressed on the forum by others, but not attack the posters themselves. Nonetheless, I would have been happy to maintain your post had it contained anything pertinent. Accusing me of being an illiterate charlatan, while very amusing, hardly follows the above rule.
    In point of fact, I did make a few minor corrections to the offending page (which, by the way, constitutes literally .3% of the site as a whole) based on your suggestions, then set it aside and forgot about it (this may surprise you, but I have a life away from the computer). I also provided links to sites with much more infomation on the samurai sword. At any point you could have called my attention to this oversight on my part. Instead, you launch into an attack on this forum that attempts to drag down the credibility of the Archives as a whole - WITHOUT so much as providing one example that would expose me for the imposter I appear to be.
    At any rate, I have simply removed the 'weapons' section of the Archives for the time being. My own ego is not so great that I am willing to knowingly perpetuate inaccuracies. The primary purpose of the Samurai Archives is to introduce those interested to the great names of Japanese history. There is still somewhere around 400 pages of material for you to pick over and attack if you'd like.
    In the future, think before you post (and especially when you attack a moderator) and how you chose to post. As far as the crdibility of the Archives is concerned, readers are, as always, invited to see our list of references, both in english and Japanese, to go to the source.
    [This message has been edited by FwSeal (edited 11-12-2000).]
    [/QUOTE]

    My original post was not to YOU. I was not trying to be amusing. I may have hit the reply button but My post was not intented to attack you or anyone else.
    I'm sorry as I did not know that you were the author of the site in question and I am sorry if I hurt your feelings. But if this section is for discussion I will be happy to change my posts if I am shown to be wrong in fact.

    My original post contained the suggestion to read the book "The Craft of the Japanese Sword By Leon Capp Hiroko Kapp and Yoshindo Yoshihara. I don't understand why this was considered of no value.

    Months ago I made a point by point post about what exactly were the inaccuracies about the weapons section. Since those inaccuracies were left uncorrected. I made a general post to nobody in particular to remember that just because you read something on the web..that doesn't mean it is true. That is a general statement that you sould remember when you are surfing. And I said said that if a site leaves such inaccuracies to stand after they have been discussed, I would question the scholarship of such a site. If there was a reply quoting me and then mentioning that it was only a very small part of the site, I would have agreed! This is what discussion is about.


    [This message has been edited by katwomansz (edited 11-12-2000).]

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    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    katwomansz

    Let me say that this situation is not FwS' fault, but rather it is mine.

    You see, when moderators accounts are initialized 9-times-out-of-10 I endeavour to send the new staff member an extensive moderator briefing package. This package outlines a multitude articles pertaining to moderator and patron conduct; including the circumstances in which a patron's post/thread can be deleted by a moderator.

    However, in FWS' case I did not send the package. Basically I just said to myself: "what are the odds that anyone will post anything in the Japanese History and Cinema forum that will require actual 'moderation'", and left it at that... Hence, I hung ol' Forest out to dry.

    I did in fact have a chance to read your initial post before it was deleted, and I'd probably have to agree with you: -under the guidelines set forth in the moderator briefing package the post did not merit deletion. However, FwS could not have known this at the time, and accordingly, the blame for this unfortunate situation rests squarely on my shoulders, not his. -I hope you both will accept my sincere apology.

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

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    Senior Member Senior Member FwSeal's Avatar
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    Kat:
    "I'm sorry as I did not know that you were the author of the site in question and I am sorry if I hurt your feelings."

    Give me a break - either you are a liar or are woefully unattentive. The first time we had this go-round (on the old board), you addressed the site directly - and asked me to change the information. Hell, in the second post in this thread, Kurando provides a link to the Archives, which he describes as my site.
    Anyway, enough about you, as utterly charming as you seem to be (about as charming as Baltimore, I might add).

    Well, to the daimyo and kerai in general, with a new baby and an upcoming move, this is as good a time as any to tender my resignation and abscond to Koyasan to read the sutras. For my final stately act as Jibu no shoyu and 'moderator', I'd simply say that I stand by the deletion. If I am not allowed to remove a message that attacks me (or anyone else) personally, I don't see much point in it - if only for pride's sake.
    Since I'd do the same again in a heartbeat, regardless of what's in the guidlines, I guess I'm not the man for the job.

    Finally, I suggest Zen_Blade as my replacement. A man who understands the sengoku period well, I think he'd fill in nicely.

    Oh well, off to Koyasan...

    Dewa matta

  17. #17
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Goodbye and good luck FWSeal. You were (are) a fine moderator.

    (I really hope this isn't just some tempter tantrum that's going to blow over in a week or so.)

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    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Please just take some time, count to JU, and reconsider. Good moderators don't grow on trees, and this site deserves the best, which I believe we have

    Don't let a personal feud bring down the History forum You'll only leave us to the wolves.
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    You can't leave Forest! I mean jeez, the site just got it's own ship: the USS Totalwar.org

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  20. #20
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    Aha..so YOU'RE the guys!!

    The captain of that tugboat was later to heard to say, "Yes it was quite an impressive anchor, but after all the hype, the anchor wasn't as good as it could have been."


  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Well guys it's official, I've spoken with FWS, and he has his reasons for resigning, and accordingly I respect them.

    Zen_Blade has been offered, (and has accepted), the position of moderator of the Japanese History and Cinema forum. Those of you who know Z_B can attest to his competency, and level-headedness. He'll do a good job here; of that I am positive...

    As far as Forest goes: well, the worst of us come to this type of forum because we have something to prove, the majority of us come because we have something to learn, but FWS is the best of the bunch: he comes here because he wants to help. He deserves our respect as both an individual and a professional. And needless to say: he is welcome at this dojo anytime!

    /me bows to our one and only Jibu no shoyu!

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  22. #22
    Member Member Anssi Hakkinen's Avatar
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    Whoah.

    I leave this site for less than sixteen hours and you people do something like this. Christ. I'm shocked.

    I feel like a Takeda retainer after Nagashino. Just when I thought there was a single constant in the universe... Oh well, I suppose I'll avoid committing junshin as for now. I'm sure Zen_Blade will do a great job, so I'm still far from going ronin and poverty, but I certainly hope the light of Seal-K˘'s wisdom will still shine upon us lowly mortals...

    "It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
    - Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

  23. #23
    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    There is a good chance I will close this topic if anyone makes another negative remark here.

    if there needs to be any more discussion btwn Katwoman and FW, then it can be done else where.

    -I don't wish to be mean, but this sort of arguing doesn't help anyone.

    -Zen Blade

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    Derelict from an older age.

  24. #24
    Member Member katwomansz's Avatar
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    My version...
    I saw the link and I did not honestly know or remember who FWS was. I haven't been here for months. I simply checked the link and I was surprised that after the discussion on this site months ago nothing was corrected on the very small small weapons section and posted as such.

    Now if someone wants to question my honor or denigrate my birthplace, I don't really care. I just want to talk facts. I tried to apologize publically if FwSeal thought I was attacking him personally in the deleted post and I am called a "liar or woefully unattentive."


    Congradulations on your new baby FwSeal! By raising a child you are making a bigger contribution to the world than any web site or mere discussion here could hope to accomplish. Your family will appreciate the extra time you can now spend on them.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Senior Member ShaiHulud's Avatar
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    FWSeal..Grats on your newborn! Guess I can understand your resignation. I'm prone to bail when it gets nasty...after all,I'm married, I can get that at home!
    Still, does that mean you won't be replying to ANY nastygrams? I replied to you in another forum here....was expecting to learn about "BraveHeart" history. So, don't completely abandon us.

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    fells steel,yet bamboo bends and drinks
    O stranger, Go tell the Spartans that we lie here, obedient to their will.....

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