A Withdraw is NOT a defeat!!

**Oaty** · 10-11-2004, 01:37

Well I do see it as a defeat Colovian, because the attacking army did there intentions. Chased you away.

But losing the cavalry is plain dumb I know how you feel on that. Hopefully CA fixes this problem

**andrewt** · 10-11-2004, 01:51

Agreed. I thought at first that it's related to percent of casualties but apparently there's some other factors involved producing weird results. I've had a defender sally using an outside army, get obliterated except for one lone hoplite and I still had to assault that one lone hoplite.

**discovery1** · 10-11-2004, 01:59

Originally Posted by andrewt

Agreed. I thought at first that it's related to percent of casualties but apparently there's some other factors involved producing weird results. I've had a defender sally using an outside army, get obliterated except for one lone hoplite and I still had to assault that one lone hoplite.

What? When they sally with outside support and I destroy them I just walk into an empty city. Then again , I do tend to aggresively ride down routers. The one time I didn't the seige continued. Then again, perhaps I just kill all of the troops from inside the city usually.

**The_Emperor** · 10-11-2004, 11:38

If your army withdraws from a sally it is an automatic defeat.

The army that sallies has a clear objective: To break the siege by killing you or chasing you off. As the besiegers it is your duty to kill them all and still be there at the end of the battle, or to take the city in the chaos.

The one thing I do not like is a strategic withdraw on the campaign map before a battle is clased as a defeat. It was real cheesy having my generals gain yet another command star because the AI withdrew and chose not to commit battle.

Exactly what 'great deed' did my general commit to warrant a gain in rank other than simply marching his guys onto the field and having them stand there looking tough?

**Thoros of Myr** · 10-11-2004, 12:06

I've yet to withdraw from a seige but in my 1st Parthian campaign I was under siege by Egypt. My army inflicted heavy casualties on thier main assualt force. They had another, smaller force waiting out of arrow range that withdrew when they saw the death of that force, I was granted a victory but thier 3-4 units that withdrew where untouched and still existed on the camp map...so is it only working for the AI or it's something to do with army size?

**Derfal Cadarn** · 10-11-2004, 13:03

Emperor

Maybe it was the generals reputation that made the enemy withdraw without engaging, hence if a general is good enough to cause that much fear in teh opposition he deserved to be rewarded for being able to conquer a land without losing any casualities.

**The_Emperor** · 10-12-2004, 09:23

Originally Posted by Derfal Cadarn

Emperor

Maybe it was the generals reputation that made the enemy withdraw without engaging, hence if a general is good enough to cause that much fear in teh opposition he deserved to be rewarded for being able to conquer a land without losing any casualities.

No it was the fact that I outnumbered them. Besides I never even got to the battle deployment, the enemy army just backed away on the campaign map, and my General levelled up without doing anything on the battlefield.

This is a bad exploit in my view. Next time you get an army of rebels appear in your territory and you outnumber them attack and force them to withdraw, then instead of pursuing them to combat right away go onto the next turn. You can then rinse and repeat and your general will keep on levelling up chasing rebels around the map.

Armies have strategically withdrew in history to choose the ground for battle beforehand. Hannibal was being pursued by the Romans (and didn't give battle) up until Lake Thrasymene, where he laid an ambush for them on ground of his choosing...

Likewise Napoleon chased the Russians into Russia, only to lose his army there.

So a strategic withdraw is not really a victory, yet in this game it is and for each time your army withdraws in RTW the better the enemy Commander gets and the stronger his army will be.

**Bob the Insane** · 10-11-2004, 13:41

Originally Posted by The_Emperor

If your army withdraws from a sally it is an automatic defeat.

The army that sallies has a clear objective: To break the siege by killing you or chasing you off. As the besiegers it is your duty to kill them all and still be there at the end of the battle, or to take the city in the chaos.

Totally agree...

Note that if you are the one Sallying (spelling?) and you get all you troops back inside the gates and then end the battle (hit escape and choose Exit Battle) it is registered as a Draw...

The AI does not appear to do this and only sallies if it thinks it can defeat you or if the siege time is about to run out...

What happens if the battle timer runs out during a battle where the AI is sallying, but you are still in the fight????

As for the other issue of a withdrawing army disbanding, well it is a bit odd and I don't really understand it yet but I have seen the AI withdraw their full army from the battlemap before any casualties occured, I get a clear victory and the enemy army moves a huge distance away back in the direction of it's own borders...

**Ulstan** · 10-11-2004, 15:25

I fought a massive battle vs the gauls (I do not think it was a siege, don't remember there being a town).

Anyway, I was outnumbered by a lot, but since they are gauls they managed to start their chain rout and start fleeing off the field after a long fight.

My archer unit was completely out of ammunition at some point and I had them withdraw because the barbarians were charging my lines and I didn't want the archers caught and killed unnecessarily and figured that it was just best to have such fragile troops out of the way.

Anyway, it came down to one formed unit of the gauls left on the map, with 2k of them dead and maybe 300 of my own men dead. I lost the battle (no problems there) but when I got back to the campaign map my archers were completely gone!! That is quite silly.

**Bob the Insane** · 10-11-2004, 15:32

Originally Posted by Ulstan

but when I got back to the campaign map my archers were completely gone!! That is quite silly.

You might need to search a little because I have seen defeated armies disappear into nearby towns (yours obviously) or even onto nearby ships if they are accessable...

But there is also this disbanding mechanic that comes into play if a certain percentage of your army is destroyed or something like that... Don't quite understand that one yet...