A Withdraw is NOT a defeat!!

[Orvis Tertia]

Nice discussion. Here are a few random observations that pertain to several points made here:

1. If you want to use a screening force to soften up or delay an enemy, for instance if you want to send some cavalry ahead to engage the enemy while you assemble your army (on the strategic map, I mean), then don't take your general--use a captain. As far as I know, the loss you will get won't give you any negative traits if there is no general in your army.

2. Withdrawing might sometimes be smart and even more damaging to the enemy than to you, but it can still be perceived as a loss by the troops. For instance, Robert E. Lee took a lot of flak for digging in and being defensive at the Battle of Vicksburg (in the American Civil War) even though it was smart. So at the Battle of Gettysburg, Lee rejected the wise advice of his general Longstreet, who advocated digging in and using the defensive terrain to his advantage. Instead, he decided that he didn't want to get pegged as a timid defender, so he attacked. We all know how that panned out. I know this isn't relevant to a lot of the situations in-game, but it does bolser the case for making a withdrawal equal a defeat.

3. Pushing an enemy back who chooses not to engage you can give you a command star, but not every time, and it seems to grow less likely as your general gets more powerful. I have found that it's not possible, or at least not easy, to abuse this mechanism.

[Bob the Insane]

Thinking about the test I did, I guess I understand that hitting 'escape 'and 'exit battle' should never be of benefit to the player or you could always do this if a battle went bad, so I guess making you lose the battle with some casualties is not so bad... Ideally I think performing this action in a normal battle should force the battle to be autoresolved from this point, but well...

But I find the logic behind withdrawing really odd, you withdraw your troops from a battle in good order and they all just vanish, I understand the fact that you effectively lose the battle, but how can an large, intact and in good order army simply disappear!?!?... I would love to see the logic documented...

Personally I think that withdrawing army should just move back a space or two and if it can not withdraw because there is no space (back against the mountains or the sea with no ships waiting) then it may be fair that the army is lost, but perhaps in that case the withdraw option should be disabled for the battle....

I wonder if withdrawing is only this devistating for the attacking player???

[Tricky Lady]

Pushing an enemy back who chooses not to engage you can give you a command star, but not every time, and it seems to grow less likely as your general gets more powerful. I have found that it's not possible, or at least not easy, to abuse this mechanism.

I think so too. In my current Brutii campaign, I send a young family member (only 2-stars) around to find and destroy some rebels. I managed to get him 3 additional stars. Now he doesn't gain stars that easily anymore, even when rebels retreat without putting a fight. Another family member who's leading my main army (who's campaigning against the Greeks and Macedonians) got some trait increases (Good commander - superb commander and so on) up to 8 stars I believe, because I managed to defeat a few Greek/Macedon armies against the odds. So in my opinion this system works well.

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

3. Pushing an enemy back who chooses not to engage you can give you a command star, but not every time, and it seems to grow less likely as your general gets more powerful. I have found that it's not possible, or at least not easy, to abuse this mechanism.

Also, I had a general defending Athens against waves of Macedonian troops. Often, he would sally against a small force when there were no Macedonian reinforcements around, & knock it back, but there were so many forces nearby that he couldn't pursue to engage it for risk of not being able to return to the city. Then, he knocked back one small force, & a new trait appeared: "Doubtful Courage."