Mounts, mass and charging home

**GonzoDave** · 10-10-2004, 17:42

As you may have noticed, certain types of cavalry will penetrate deeper into an infantry formation than others. The key to this is the mass statistic found in descr_mount.txt. export_descr_unit.txt will tell you what kind of horse/camel a unit rides. The different mounts have the following mass statistics

Light Horse:4
Scythian Archers, Head Hunting Maidens, Scythian Noblewomen, Numidian Cavalry, Pontic Light Cavalry, Horse Archer, Desert Cavalry, Light Lancers, Militia Cavalry, Cavalry Auxilia, Scythian Mercenaries, Numidian Mercenaries, Arab Cavalry
Medium Horse:4.5
Barbarian Cavalry Mercenaries, Praetorian Cavalry, Roman Cavalry, Equites, Greek Cavalry, Nubian Cavalry, Long Shield Cavalry, Round Shield Cavalry, Barbarian Cavalry
Heavy Horse:4.5
Barbarian Noble Cavalry, Gothic Cavalry, Scythian Noble Archers, Scythian Nobles, Sacred Band Cavalry, Pontic Heavy Cavalry, Persian Cavalry, Nile Cavalry, Macedonian Cavalry, Nile Cavalry, Legionary Cavalry, Sarmatian Mercenaries
General's Horse:4.5
All non chariot general units with the exception of the Eastern General
Cataphract Horse:6
Cataphract, Cappadocian Cavalry, Cataphract Archers, Eastern General,
Camel:3
All non cataphract camel units
Cataphract Camel:3
Cataphract camels

**Noong** · 10-10-2004, 18:10

Nice find.

Do you know what value chariots and elephants get?

**GonzoDave** · 10-10-2004, 18:17

Elephants:10
War Elephants:15
Armored Elephants:20
Cheat Elephants:100
All chariots 10, except for Pontic and Seleucian scythed chariots, which have mass 14

**Colovion** · 10-10-2004, 20:18

what the heck? why do Heavy and Medium Cav have the same Mass?

**GonzoDave** · 10-10-2004, 21:18

what the heck? why do Heavy and Medium Cav have the same Mass?

Same reason both camels do. The medium/heavy is just to differentiate between models and textures, I think

**ChaosLord** · 10-10-2004, 21:18

Thanks for the info GonzoDave. Am I right in assuming Infantry=1 mass? If so, cav really needs to be lowered, they shouldn't penetrate formations as easily as they do. I say something like 1.5 to 2 for light, 2 to 2.5 for med, and 2.5 to 3.5 for heavy. The only cavalary that should really drive through formations is heavy cav, light/medium are counters/harrassing the enemy.

As for the elpahants/chariots, i'd say 5 for Elephants, 8 for War Elephants, 10 for Armored Elephants. For Chariots i'd do 4 for most, 6 for the heavy ones. With these changes cav should get mired in infantry more easily right? And in a close fight they'll start to die in numbers like they should. What does everyone else think of this?

I think once I finish my current campaign i'll test this and see what the results of it are.

**Colovion** · 10-10-2004, 21:42

Originally Posted by ChaosLord

Thanks for the info GonzoDave. Am I right in assuming Infantry=1 mass? If so, cav really needs to be lowered, they shouldn't penetrate formations as easily as they do. I say something like 1.5 to 2 for light, 2 to 2.5 for med, and 2.5 to 3.5 for heavy. The only cavalary that should really drive through formations is heavy cav, light/medium are counters/harrassing the enemy.

As for the elpahants/chariots, i'd say 5 for Elephants, 8 for War Elephants, 10 for Armored Elephants. For Chariots i'd do 4 for most, 6 for the heavy ones. With these changes cav should get mired in infantry more easily right? And in a close fight they'll start to die in numbers like they should. What does everyone else think of this?

I think once I finish my current campaign i'll test this and see what the results of it are.

I look forward to your results and the possible mod resulting of.

**GonzoDave** · 10-10-2004, 21:59

Am I right in assuming Infantry=1 mass?

1 is the standard, but some units(Sacred Band, armored hoplites) are higher, while some(siege engine crews) are lower.

Oh, and I think elephant mass also effects how far units get thrown, which in turn affects their lethality

**Midnight** · 10-11-2004, 00:03

Nice find, very interesting! A great help to modding.

**Soulflame** · 10-11-2004, 01:42

Originally Posted by GonzoDave

Elephants:10
War Elephants:15
Armored Elephants:20
Cheat Elephants:100
All chariots 10, except for Pontic and Seleucian scythed chariots, which have mass 14

Well here we also have proof of the unrealisticness of chariots:
I mean, as much mass as elephants? 2 types EVEN MORE more then elephants, almost as much as War elephants? You have got to be kidding me... A chariot weighs the same as an elephant? And can STILL run as fast as cavalry and turn on a dime?

This obviously is rediculous and should be modded asap.

**Oaty** · 10-11-2004, 04:07

Does the mass mean a game reference on how well there charge will do. Or does cataphracts with 6 mass mean they will likely charge all the way to the 6th line of infantry until there charge comes to halt.

I had hastatis about 10 deep knowing I was going to be taking a heavy cavalry charge and it was a bit funny watching the enemy cavlry pancaking the line to about 2-4 deep getting caught up and slashed to the ground in no time. If I had any less depth thier cavalry charge would have owned me as the enemy cavalry would have disrupted the whole formation.