MTW after RTW

[Lord Ovaat]

after playing VI plus the MedMod, then you'll fully comprehend what the Hardcore players have been whinning about.

You got it, TS. I can't help but try and compare RTW with MedMod, 'cause that's what I played for the last six months. I will say one thing, though. It's a darned good thing RTW doesn't have the homeland concept. Could you imagine trying to send replacement troops from Italy to Britain in RTW? TALK ABOUT TEDIUM! One of my biggest grips is still the SLOW speed of movement in the campaign map. Yea, we could zip a gov or unit from Wessex to Tripoli in one turn. That's a year, folks. Now it takes about six years, or 12 turns. (More or less) Yeah, I can see it now,

"Lord Ovaat, you have been appointed governor of Tripoli. Your boat leaves tomorrow."

"Really? Sorry, but at my age, I don't think I'd survive the trip. Try finding a sixteen-year-old."

Actually, campaign speed, camera angle, and a few other little things are my only complaints with RTW. Most everything else, I like, or at least am getting used to. Trade, seiges, etc. are far more realistic. They really needed to get a quick patch out to fix the multiplayer, but if they want to keep the vastly larger single player community happy, they need to address some of the issues. This game will only prosper with the single player experience being enjoyable. They should know that. That's where the money is.

[ChaosLord]

Before I got RTW I played a few campaigns of MTW using the latest MedMod to prepare. So I went directly from MedMod MTW to RTW and I must say RTW is still the better game. While their are bugs and annoying AI results overall the game is way beyond MTW. And no, I don't mean the graphics, I don't care one bit about them.

I mean in how cities are managed, population being important, fortifications/watchtowers being useful, the WIDE variety of unit types. I mean look at MTW with most factions using the same units, then look at RTW. The MedMod was better with this but still not as good. Now besides for a few similar factions playing a different faction FEELS like a different faction.

Theres been alot said about the battle speed and the interface which I agree with some of it. The interface itself is fine, except for camera controls and not being able to assign a unit to multiple groups. As for the battle speed it didn't bother me as much as other people. But thats because even in MTW I relied alot on my intial formation setup rather then alot of manuerving. However for those who like fine control I realize the speed is annoying. I think the speed should be dropped down to MTWs with the current speed being accessible through arcade battles.

If theres people who still want the current speed they could just speed it up like in MTW. I do have some other annoyances with the game, such as the slow speed of movement armies/ships have. Ships should move 2-3x as fast as they do, and armies should move at maybe 2x the speed. Thats of course just general game issues.

RTW will really shine through mods just like it was with MTW. I mean, we all know how laughably easy MTW was without mods, i'm finding RTW harder in comparison because of the greater focus on managing cities. Thats just my thoughts though not necesarrily the same as everyone elses.

[Arakasi]

I've played both extensively and right now I agree that due to bugs and issues that in battle MTW is superior. What needs to be done is several fixes.

1) Pathfinding bugs in cities and rivers
2) Slow down of killing rate
3) Slow down of movement speed
4) Fixing some AI concerns
4a) Have bigger stacks for AI armies (more large armies, less small armies)
4b) Work on some battle AI concerns such as defending the town square
4c) Balance some factions more
4d) Maneuvering in battles. I'd like to see enemy armies stay more cohesive
5) UI issues, although really for me this doesn't bother me much. The main thing I have problems here is with is the grouping commands.

I think it is hard to compare the two since MTW has been extensively patched and modded. The original MTW had its problems too. I like Ovaat and ChaosLord feel that RTW has much more potential than MTW. All the things that you can do in battle then are still there. Morale, fatigue, flank attacks, etc. It is just the current bugs such as movement speed and killing speed problems that are affecting this. Siege battles are much superior. And the Campaigns are miles ahead, even with the small army problems. I post also at TWC and a lot of these issues are being looked at. They've made some good inroads into the movement speed and killing speeds (even found out how it would be possible to change animations to attack slower), and I think have figured out a way to make huge fleets less prevalent.

Most of these things can be done by the modding communities. But I feel a couple things need to be fixed at CA. That being the pathfinding, UI and the AI fixes. I think everything else can be done with modding. The game looks to be incredibly moddable, even moreso than MTW. There is even good evidence of there being a campaign editor, which would be sweet.

As for Morindin, there is no need for him to apologize. He was not attacking fellow board members. He was just posting his opinion on the games.

[Slaists]

I am actually not sure about the killing speed: I believe, it's largerly due to much higher charge factors in RTW relative to MTW. Once the charge has worn off, the units tend to slug it out unless there are large differences in defense/attack between the two sides. I zoomed in on a battle where I had a bunch of armorerd hoplites surrounded by hastatii: it took hastatii a while to kill them off...

[DisruptorX]

I'd have to agree with an earlier poster that the campaign map in Rome is not "superior" to that in MTW, its just different. I liked the "Risk" layout.

Also, I play MTW slowly and deliberately, so it isn't really too easy, as the computers generally have far more men than me.

My main problem with rome is that it is almost all icing, there is very little cake.

[Arakasi]

Disruptor, I don't understand what you mean by its all icing and very little cake. All the things from MTW are still there. Things like morale, flanking, fatigue, etc are still there in the battles. They are just plagued by some bugs and balancing issues atm. I'd like to hear what things MTW had (the cake as you said it) that aren't in RTW. I can see things that were implemented differently, but I haven't seen that they are removed.

[rayoftoul]

In general movement speeds seem better in MTW. Apart from the fact that your guys slide around everywhere (which is point 3, atmosphere) they make more sense.

Agreed with all you said apart from that - if you were talking about movement in the strategy map. I prefer that units move based on where they are - rather than just 'next province, next year'.

But I see what you mean about everything else. I don't find myself as engrossed in RTW as I was in MTW and I don't think conquering all and sundry is quite as satisfying as when I was the old Byz

[DisruptorX]

Disruptor, I don't understand what you mean by its all icing and very little cake. All the things from MTW are still there. Things like morale, flanking, fatigue, etc are still there in the battles. They are just plagued by some bugs and balancing issues atm. I'd like to hear what things MTW had (the cake as you said it) that aren't in RTW. I can see things that were implemented differently, but I haven't seen that they are removed.

The core gameplay is not as satisfying. The combat is retarded. I had the mod it, and now you get to watch the retarded soldiers fight as if they are stop motion robots (you don't normally get to see this because the combat is over too fast). The repeating animations of MTW actually don't look too bad by comparison. I do not like the way combat works now, it doesn't have that perfect balance where you knew exactly which situations troops could win and lose and the battle felt under your control.

I still somewhat enjoy the game, because at least you can admire your army better with the new graphics, but the game just feels wrong. It isn't satisfying.

MTW felt like Civilization, you couldn't quit; you had to keep on playing to get the next building upgrade in your city. In Rome, I don't have any problem quitting, because building up your cities just doesn't feel as rewarding.

The core of the game isn't a step up to me, is the problem. The things that really impressed me: the atmosphere and graphics, are superficial. I guess that is what I was trying to say.