A Withdraw is NOT a defeat!!

[Colovion]

I invaded the Italian Penninsula, setup a sige with a single Militia Cav to wait for my other troops with. The enemy - One unit of Hastati and a General's Cav sallies forth. THe hastati take a bunch of casualties from my Militia Cav and after using all their Javs up I withdraw them off the battlefield.

"Clear Defeat"

I didn't lose any men! I Pressed "Withdraw" They die on the campaign map so there goes THAT idea of having a screening army to pen up a city.

two steps forward, one step back, one shoe missing

Rome: Total Waltz

[Scorpion]

Wait a minute....you withdrew your troops and found them wiped out at the campaign map?

[discovery1]

Yeah, thats what tends to happen when you withdraw from a assault/sally. We think it has something to do with have a clear avenue of retreat.

[Oaty]

Well I do see it as a defeat Colovian, because the attacking army did there intentions. Chased you away.

But losing the cavalry is plain dumb I know how you feel on that. Hopefully CA fixes this problem

[andrewt]

Agreed. I thought at first that it's related to percent of casualties but apparently there's some other factors involved producing weird results. I've had a defender sally using an outside army, get obliterated except for one lone hoplite and I still had to assault that one lone hoplite.

[discovery1]

Agreed. I thought at first that it's related to percent of casualties but apparently there's some other factors involved producing weird results. I've had a defender sally using an outside army, get obliterated except for one lone hoplite and I still had to assault that one lone hoplite.

What? When they sally with outside support and I destroy them I just walk into an empty city. Then again , I do tend to aggresively ride down routers. The one time I didn't the seige continued. Then again, perhaps I just kill all of the troops from inside the city usually.

[Colovion]

Yeah, thats what tends to happen when you withdraw from a assault/sally. We think it has something to do with have a clear avenue of retreat.

THat isn't true. I thought it might be but I was invading the boot of Italy, had my troops just coming off the boat but not enough movement points to get to the town to siege so I sent the Militia Cav as a screen, then he did his duty of killing some of their guys and then Withdrew. Sure, they did what they were meant to and I don't really care if it says Defeat - I just care that you can't Withdraw from a siege without losing all of your troops.

[mambaman]

I am in total agreement with most of the ppl on this thread in that i had apowerful army (with young faction heir) attack the Numidians last fort/settlement. Now i had heard that elephants could attack forts with wooden walls...no such luck!! It just wouldnt work (was i missing something?).

For that reason it made sense to beat a tactical withdrawal in order to build some seige machinery. What happened when i did that? The whole army and the faction heir lost!!! Now that is plain silly (and highly unrealistic). Surely you should be able to build seige machinery in the field (i.e. on the battle map) and why would my army be defeated in circumstances like this

CA an explanation would be nice..........

[Bob the Insane]

Love to know what would have occurred if you had just hit escape and choose exit battle rather than withdraw???

Might have been exactly the same result I guess...

[mambaman]

yeah Bob so would i-still we never know-i'd rather not risk throwing away that sort of high value Army and the faction heir again.....

[Nelson]

Now i had heard that elephants could attack forts with wooden walls...no such luck!! It just wouldnt work (was i missing something?).

I have seen elephants break wooden gates. I have never tried to hit a wall with them.

[nokhor]

in the readme file on cd 1, it says that an inf unit that ends up with 6 guys or less after a battle is automatically disbanded. and i can't remember whether that pertains to defeats in particular or just battles in general.

[Bhruic]

Elephant units should be able to target wooden gates and walls - I've done so in my Carthagian campaign.

I'm curious, has anyone tried to just take the draw? I mean, as attackers, the AI defenders almost never come out (I've only seen it by accident), so if you just up the timer to 3x, and wait, you should get a draw. Would that 'eliminate' the troops as well? A draw when attacking as defenders (or the besieged) doesn't eliminate them, so it shouldn't.

Wouldn't help if you've turned the timer off, I guess, but otherwise would be a semi-decent compromise.

Bh

[Bob the Insane]

Just did some tests and it does not look good.....

Playing a Carthage besieging a Roman Scipii settlement I out number and out power the defending force...

After one turn of seige I start an assault...

Now if I immediately witdraw all my forces I get 0 casualties on either side and I suffer a Crushing Defeat... My army disappears and the General commanding is reported dead...

Now reload and start the battle again but this time immediately hit escape and then exit battle, I get a warning that I lose the battle, I suffer a random 60 odd casualties and the enemy about 10 and I get a Close Defeat... My army breaks the siege and withdraws a couple of spaces...

Note: this battle took place only about 5 moves from my border and about 12 moves from my nearest settlement...

I tried the second method again but attacked with missile troops and broke open the gates (using elephants!) I also got a Close Defeat but caused about 250 casualties to the enemy, but still suffered about 60 random casualties of my own...

So.... WTF!?!?!?!?

As a defender in a siege I can sally out kill a few attackers retreat into the city, hit escape and exit battle and get a draw... But I can't attack a city and withdraw without trying to take it????

An occurance that was discribed as a possibility during the development (i.e. attack a city with catapults destroying the infastructure and then withdrawing without taking the city...) can't be carried out without either lossing your army or suffering mysterous casualties!?!?!?

I do not mind the defeat results but the random casualties or losing your army is wack....