How to use Hastati and Principes effectively?

**Bob the Insane** · 10-13-2004, 09:55

For me the only difference between the two is that the Principes are better...

I place them on fire at will and sometimes guard mode as well (but the jury is still out on the effectiveness of guard mode) and I march then up to the enemy close enough so when they stop they throw their pilum, then when they are done throwing all their pilum simply get them to attack... The trick is to get your line close enough to throw but not so close they provke a counter charge...

If I need to force them to engage (in an emergency) I was use Alt to force a melee attack so they don't mess around with the pilum and get stuck in straight away.

**MonkeyMan** · 10-13-2004, 10:18

I do the same as bob, I use the 'alt' key to make sure they don't use the plium, especially if i have a few units in the same area, IMHO the use of the plium is outweighed a lot of the time by the fact that they don't get an effective charge if they use them (unless the enemy you are attacking is just sat there doing nothing). I wouldn't put them onto fire at will either. From what i have seen, on fire at will, if they break an enemy, rather than pursue them they throw plium at them first. So say 2-3 men survive to flee and then run through another unit of yours to escape they then get 100+ plium thrown at them most of which end up in your own mens backs.

**Basileus** · 10-13-2004, 10:19

I started my second campaign as the romans last night, Julii hard/hard and nothing seems to be able to stop my hastati..with the gauls i try not to use the pillum so often cause they charge the moment you get close, so ALT attack and flank with my general.

**Colovion** · 10-13-2004, 10:23

Gaurd mode is awesome for stoping enemy charges. Set the Hastati and Princeps in deep formation on Gaurd and they'll be able to bog Cav down enough to get some whacks in. I use ALT for attacking unless I know I have time to throw the pilum.

**econ21** · 10-13-2004, 10:24

In my Julii campaign, Hastati (and later Principes) are the core of my army. I mean, what else have you got? Triarii come too late - the Marian reforms preceded them in my campaign - and town watch are not really frontline troops.

I do use velites (later archers), equites and (to my shame) wardogs, but I prefer to have these as support troops for my solid heavy infantry line as this feels more historical. The velites and archers shoot from the front, then scoot behind the heavy infantry. The equites come out from the flanks. The wardogs... well, let's skip the cheese.

I think the key thing is to put the Hastati and Principes on fire at will. When stationary and defending, they should - just about - get a volley off before infantry closes. Cavalry attacking them will not be pretty, but usually you have the numbers for them to prevail. Even attacking, I tend to park them just in range and let them fire unless it is an emergency. The pila do decent damage and are particularly valuable against armoured enemies where every single casualty counts (eg heavy cavalry, chariots and elephants). I do tend to forgo the charge bonus unless out of ammo or in an emergency, but I think it is a reasonable trade off given that the bonus is rather low (a mere +2, IIRC).

I am not very experienced, but surely the hastati compare favourably to most other factions early infantry? At least they have good defence and the pila. I think a Roman army with lots of heavy infantry and some support should be able to handle most AI armies. The post-Marian units seem to do the same job, just better.

**caspian** · 10-13-2004, 10:34

I completely forgot about the ALT key. Thanks for the reminder.

I've been playing Total War since bodies were piled up on the impossible Shinano mountains so I'm kinda old school. Just goes to show how different RTW is from MTW and STW, it rewrites the rules somewhat.

**Jugurtha** · 10-13-2004, 11:41

Originally Posted by caspian

I completely forgot about the ALT key. Thanks for the reminder.

I've been playing Total War since bodies were piled up on the impossible Shinano mountains so I'm kinda old school. Just goes to show how different RTW is from MTW and STW, it rewrites the rules somewhat.

I thought you could do the same with them? I'm sure I used to charge my archers downhill at monks all the time.

The hills were steeper in Shogun weren't they?

**econ21** · 10-13-2004, 12:37

Originally Posted by Jugurtha

I thought you could do the same with them? I'm sure I used to charge my archers downhill at monks all the time.

The hills were steeper in Shogun weren't they?

Yes, you could but it was not advisable against Monks!

However, if you look at the stats, archers could take on yaris on even terms with only the slightest of edge. Samauri archers were brilliant in STW.

The hills of Shinano bring back memories - there was really nice sort of raised pudding bowl area in Shinano. You could line the steep edges with archers backed by infantry and keep you cavalry hidden in the depression behind them. Is it just me or does the terrain look better in Shogun? Anyway, fond memories...