The reason to take walls rather than destroy them :)

[Slaists]

I saw a post here saying that it does not make sens building towers and ladders because it is much easier to take the walls down with sap points. Well, if you take over a section of a wall, it starts shooting arrows at the defenders... I had a couple wall sections practically annihilated the defender army opening me a free passage to the town square.

[GFX707]

Plus you don't have to repair them afterwards....

[Mori Gabriel Syme]

Now if only my seige towere weren't destroyed after they've rolled 20 feet.

[Slaists]

My solution: I build several towers... out of 4 - 2 made it to the wall. that was sufficient :)

[Bob the Insane]

After taking the walls around a gate I like to put some archers up there to cover the rest of my troos coming though the gates..

[TinCow]

Is there any way to get troops up onto the walls who enter from ground level? I seem to only be able to get ladder/tower troops to go down and nothing can get up. What am I doing wrong?

[Zatoichi]

If you click on a mid point on the top of the wall with a unit on the ground that's near a captured wall tower, the unit will run up the tower and assemble where you clicked.

Obviously, you have to be inside the city to do this...

[Dorkus]

well, easier to sap and take the walls, imo.

you ahve to select one and only one unit to get up on to a wall. if you try to get a group up there, or if you select multiple units, the cursor grays out on the walls.

annoying when you want to send multiple infantry units up a wall. though in truth multiple units aren't that useful on walls in any event.

[hoof]

The number one reason against sapping for me is arrow fire from the defending towers. Nothing is more annoying than the steady drain on your soldiers as they march near the walls.

I usually create a mix of ladders and siege towers. The towers are to distract the wall defenders, while the ladder troops deploy far from my main force to minimize the chance of defenders on their wall section. Once up, I charge them to the wall fight, and can usually pincer the defenders. An added bonus is if they can sieze a gate on the way, allowing access to the inside for the regular troops.

If you sap a wall, silencing the towers becomes much more complicated. If the sappers choose to sap a wall section with towers on either side, the breach will prevent access from one tower to the other w/o climbing down first. Thus you need two units of infantry, or a bigger chunk of time while the one unit clears out tower 1, then tower 2.

However, for quick access to the town, nothing beats sappers. Siege towers are way too slow (those guys take an eternity to climb the tower to fight, by the time they're done, the battle's over). Ladders can be faster, if they can sieze a gate without much resistance. This is usually not possible if the defenders have a decent-sized army (they will usually not oppose a single ladder team, but will defend a ladder team backed up by an assault force) I've avoided the ram-vs-gate approach or going through a gate opened by spy for fear of the oil, thus I don't know how bad it is to try to get in via a hostile gate (other than wooden wall cities that don't have oil).

[Slaists]

If you click on a mid point on the top of the wall with a unit on the ground that's near a captured wall tower, the unit will run up the tower and assemble where you clicked.

Obviously, you have to be inside the city to do this...

Not really, you do not have to be inside the city to make a unit climb the wall. Once your tower has made the "hookup" you can click on the wall also without being inside. Units from outside will climb the tower and set up on the wall.

[Slaists]

However, for quick access to the town, nothing beats sappers. Siege towers are way too slow (those guys take an eternity to climb the tower to fight, by the time they're done, the battle's over). Ladders can be faster, if they can sieze a gate without much resistance. This is usually not possible if the defenders have a decent-sized army (they will usually not oppose a single ladder team, but will defend a ladder team backed up by an assault force) I've avoided the ram-vs-gate approach or going through a gate opened by spy for fear of the oil, thus I don't know how bad it is to try to get in via a hostile gate (other than wooden wall cities that don't have oil).

my experience has been a bit different: if i use a number of seige towers from different directions and sappers simultaneously. the guys with the seige towers are usually on top of the walls first. given that they silence all the sections they occupy and then make them fire at the defenders: i think, it's a bonus.

[Marius Maxentius]

Plus you don't have to repair them afterwards....

A few times I had taken sections of the walls down to get troops in there quicker. I won the battle and captured the city, but forgot to repair the walls. The enemy soon came back and assaulted my city... the holes in the walls were one of the factors that lead to my defeat and eventual loss of the city.

Busting open gates doesn't destroy them, thankfully.

[DisruptorX]

A few times I had taken sections of the walls down to get troops in there quicker. I won the battle and captured the city, but forgot to repair the walls. The enemy soon came back and assaulted my city... the holes in the walls were one of the factors that lead to my defeat and eventual loss of the city.

Busting open gates doesn't destroy them, thankfully.

I've won battles for the same reason! I forgot to repair, but when the battle started, I put my entire army behind the hole. The enemy dropped all of their seige engines, and their entire army made a mad dash for the hole. They were completely slaughtered. God, the AI is horrid.

Personally, I never use sap points, I use seige towers. The computer is never able to destroy them, and they send a nice solid unit of your finest elites directly into the enemy. I then move along the walls and take the gate from above, letting my army in.

[TinCow]

Personally, I never use sap points, I use seige towers. The computer is never able to destroy them, and they send a nice solid unit of your finest elites directly into the enemy. I then move along the walls and take the gate from above, letting my army in.

I've had many siege towers destroyed by the AI, about half to archers using fire arrows and half to towers using fire arrows. For some reason, they only seem to nail a tower when it's a closely contested siege. Whenever I have overwhelming force, I never lose a tower. Makes for a fun game when my pincer attack on the gate walls fails due to a cohort bonfire.

[DisruptorX]

I've had many siege towers destroyed by the AI, about half to archers using fire arrows and half to towers using fire arrows. For some reason, they only seem to nail a tower when it's a closely contested siege. Whenever I have overwhelming force, I never lose a tower. Makes for a fun game when my pincer attack on the gate walls fails due to a cohort bonfire.

Hmm, I've heard that from everyone else, but the ai simply never has any archers when I am beseiging them. I have lost a seige tower once, when it was already at the walls, and half the unit was already off. That was because the AI had a balista team on the ground inside of the castle. Otherwise, they never get me. However, if I send battering rams at any castle with a stone wall, they can destroy them all, even if I bring 3 or 4, before I even get close. Against wooden walls, they work fine.

[Slaists]

The other night I was assaulting a greek city (with Brutii), the city had a decent garrison of cavalry and armored hoplites but I outnumbered them vastly. The problem came in the form of a greek relief force approaching the city from the North side while I was storming from the West. With the relief force, the greeks outnumbered me two to one. Once I had the West side taken by my siege towers, the walls started shooting at the approaching greek forces and routed/killed them all (helped by my wardogs) before they could join in the fight in any serious manner. I think, even their general (an heir) bit the dust pierced by an arrow from the wall... I lost one seige tower (out of three) to arrows from the walls.

[Dorkus]

in my exp, you lose about as many troops from arrow fire with siege towers as you do just running into a hole in loose formation. The benefit of the sap point is that, if necessary, you can send more guys in.

[Slaists]

in my exp, you lose about as many troops from arrow fire with siege towers as you do just running into a hole in loose formation. The benefit of the sap point is that, if necessary, you can send more guys in.

hmm, to counter, in the experience i just described, i lost just a few seige tower pushing troops to the wall arrow fire. maybe because those were hastatii with their shields up while pushing. i figured, i would lose many more if i had the walls still shooting in my units' backs while they were fighting in the streets; had i just used one or two sap points.

[Morindin]

Sap points you lose less men - yes.
But siege towers go MUCH more smoothly in terms of pathfinding bugs.

Personally I build both. Siege towers first (4 of them), then Sap points 'just incase'. Usually you outnumber the defender so with siege towers you can swarm over the walls unopposed (in some areas), capture the gate easily, then send the rest of your forces in through the gate to capture the town square.

Blowing holes in the walls results in annoying pathfinding, scraps at small chock points, and walls you must repair afterwards.

Of course, if the enemy has millions of archers along the walls blowing up holes may be prudent. It really depends. Ladders are a big no-no.

[Dorkus]

well, this is really lame, but what i often do with a sap point is place my entire army away from teh sap point, save two units.

The defenders usually ignore the smaller force and position their defenders next to my main army (despite the fact that there's no way for them to get in).

the sapper digs in, and blows open a wall. right when the wall goes down, i rush the other unit in in loose formation and up the tower. When the wall goes down, the ai will generally send a couple units to the hole, but by the time they get there, i have the tower, so it's not a problem. Especailly when my main force arrives.

[TinCow]

I would agree you lose fewer with a sap hole run than a siege tower IF there are no enemy missile troops on the walls. Jupiter help you if there are two units of archers on the walls when you make that run though. When you have a siege tower, the archers try to set it on fire first (in my experience) thus keeping the casualties relatively low. Plus, it is much easier to clear missile and skirmisher troops off the walls with a tower assault.

So... Sapping on undefended walls, towers on defended walls. Ladders for the cannon fodder.

[Morindin]

Also if you move your siege towers to the walls on a slight angle most of the archers miss anyway :)
One thing about blowing up the walls however, if they have a lot of archers on the walls already you can usually kill a whole heap, then finish them off with your own archers (if you have them).

I still prefer siege towers overall and use sap points as a last resort.

[The_Emperor]

I find that the main problem with using only Sap points is that you need to blast more than one hole in the wall to be effective... Otherwise the enemy will just mob you on the other side.

Taking the walls is the best way to minimise casualties, and Siege Towers are best for this because (unlike ladders) your men actually manage to survive long enough to get up there.

[Paul Peru]

In my first real siege (beyond picket fences) I managed to get sappers under one of my siege towers
At least it worked as one would expect; the tower collapsed.
Until I read this tread, I hadn't figured out what to do once I was up on the wall, so I just used sappers. (or rams, if I wanted to give my legions a nice, dangerous barbeque)