I lost a siege when i was winning it!!!!!

**Konstantinos Palaiologos** · 10-13-2004, 11:24

Last night i was playing with Brutiis and i was at war with Greeks.

I attacked the city of SPARTA (which was the capital city of Greeks) with a large army.

The defenders had a small garisson inside the town (1 General, 1 Spartan Hoplite and 1 Armoured Hoplite) and a medium size army outside of it.

As soon as i began the siege i took over the walls and from an opening i passed all my troops inside the town.

I eliminated all three units of the enemy and conquer the city plaza.

Afterwards the outside enemy units came into town and attacked my troops stationed at the plaza.

The plaza changed hands although i was winning!

At the end i took again the plaza back (the center flag turned at my colours) and after a while the time limit expired.

I was very suprized when i saw that it was a CLOSE DEFEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can anyone please tell me what the hell happened?

Thanks.

**Magraev** · 10-13-2004, 11:34

My guess is that you didn't have control of the central square for 3 minutes before the timelimit expired. Every time the original owner controls the square (ie has troops alive in the square) the timer resets.

This is another good reason to disable the timer (by going into the historical battles screen before starting a new campaign).

**Konstantinos Palaiologos** · 10-13-2004, 11:40

I think i had the central square in my control only for 1,5 min before the time limit expired.
This could explain my defeat.But still it is a nonsence!
Thanks Magraev anyway.

**Akka** · 10-13-2004, 12:21

The timer is inept, too short, and generally a huge pain in the *bip*.

Get the timer removal tool. Painless, and MUCH, MUCH better. I can't believe how CA forced this timer upon ourselves.

**Magraev** · 10-13-2004, 12:37

Originally Posted by Konstantinos Palaiologos

I think i had the central square in my control only for 1,5 min before the time limit expired.
This could explain my defeat.But still it is a nonsence!
Thanks Magraev anyway.

No problem - glad to help

As was said there are several ways to remove the timer. Just remember you won't have it to save your behind in defensive battles either

**Red Harvest** · 10-13-2004, 22:04

CA could have implemented the timer better, especially for sieges. It should never cut off when you have control of the plaza as the attacker. This is a timer squared issue.

**Colovion** · 10-13-2004, 22:24

Once you're inside the city (or the enemy is inside the city) the timer should turn off.

Or just have an option before the battle to disable it altogether.

**Lichgod** · 10-14-2004, 20:53

Taking Crete, losing control of the square back to the defender frustrated me last night. I would take the square, then a routing unit from battles with the reinforcing army elsewhere would show up and change the square back to defender control. Even blocking the roads did not work. One routing unit still had 2 guys survive passing through a phalanx to reset the square timer.

RTW has set the defender rally location to the town square. If the attacker controls the square, i.e. unrouted units there, the square should not switch back to the defender if a routed unit shows up (and dies). The defender should either move a formed unit to the square (still easy to do) or be forced to route all attacking units in the square to reclaim it.

I take heart enjoying the stupid AI sitting in the square and not responding to point blank missile fire. Balances out the timer and other factors.

I mentioned this before, I usually do not assault sieged towns that have half or more stack of units. I will wait them out and let them attack me (if the AI garrison sallies by itself, you do not get a deployment option). I have found the AI will bring up another stack and hit me with a relief force and garrison force. By maximizing casualties on the garrison force, the battle victory will also give me the city. You need to inflict 90-95% losses on the garrison and allow no unrouted unit to escape.

**RedKnight** · 10-14-2004, 22:34

Magraev, to be a little more precise, I believe you have to control it for 3 minutes IF there are any non-routed enemies left. Which is to say that if one could quickly run and kill or route anyone left (there may only be tiny enemy scraps left, which will panic just seeing you coming), you will win as of that instant, even if 3 minutes are not up.

If you get all remaining enemies to route, it will give you the "do you want to Continue the battle to kill them off or not?" popup, as is usual for battles when they've all routed. You'll still win, even if you don't kill them all.

Of course, if you have killed everybody, it ends instantly already - no 3 minute wait needed.

IIRC I once had a situation where the only enemy left was one lone enemy cavalry (one man) on a side street perpendicular to the plaza, who ran back and forth, unable to pathfind his was to the plaza, I guess. (Or was he wavering between rushing the plaza or being scared of me? Who knows.) Meanwhile the 3 minute counter, and the overall battle counter, were counting down. So I sent my general after the loner. As soon as my general rounded the corner of the side street and the loner spotted him, he routed, and Bam, Victory.