Criticisms of CA... again

[Spuddicus]

Anyone whose advice is "get a tougher skin" should try investing two years of their life in a creative endeavour and then ask fifty complete strangers to tell them it's shit...

Does the game have issues?
Yes.
Are some of these issues serious?
Perhaps. Depends on your perspective (and issue).

But consider this .... for every fifty complete strangers that incessantly whine, there's five thousand of us saying 'Well done. Thank you.'

[Indylavi]

That's the problem Spuddicus. Most of those that enjoy the game don't spend any time in a forum I feel for the devs I do but it's just sadly what people do. I spent 4 years in the military to have most of my friends die and be seriously injuried myself only to have people call me a war criminal because of the government. Just don't listen to them I say. Besides, RTW can't be that bad as it's still number 2 on the UK ELSPA Chart
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/charts.php?tag=pc_fp_top20

[Servius]

"When the developers aren't visibly active in the forums and unresponsive to requests for change it makes the fans even more desperate to be heard. I would suggest we harp on niggling issues because we haven't received any assurance from the devs that they're looking into it (or even that they don't plan on making a change). This uncertainty, like a feedback loop, makes those that love the game become even more vocal and frantic to get the issues addressed before the powers that be decide they're done supporting the game and move onto the next project."

Trousermonkey hit the nail on the head here, for me at least. The complaints on these boards aren't random. Luckily for all, they're quite specific and repetitive. Many of us have problems with the interface, with the removal of certain options, and with the slow speed of strategic movement and the too-fast speed of battles.

I can only speak for myself when I bear out Trouser's point by saying that the first week or so after release, whenever I spoke about these problems I was polite and not vindictive or critical of the devs. I expected to see a post by a CA rep saying something like (well, this is the way we want the game to go, but if you don't like it, here are the specific ways to change the code to speed this up, slow that down, etc. But no such comments have been forthcoming. I don't need them fixed right now, but I'd certainly appreciate some kind of acknowledgement that, to the community at least, these are important issues and that CA is dedicated to helping players make the game as enjoyable as possible. For me at least, it's because of a lack of response from CA on these issues that my tone has turned less polite.

The first time you say "Excuse me CA, can I talk to you about something?" Ignored, the second time you say "Hey, I need to talk to you about something." Then "HEY! Are you even listening to us!?" And then, at the end of that negative procession, "Jackass is deaf, dumb, or doesn't care."

The trick here is to respond quickly to consistently-raised concerns from may of Total War's more ardent fans. I'd chance to say most of the folks on this board are here because they were deicated fans of MTW, and came here to discuss tactics and seek mod advice. We are the pre-order folks, the ones who buy the game, sight unseen, becasue of a good reputation earned with MTW and STW. We're also the folks who spread the word, good or bad, to other gamers. Sure, not everyone on these boards fits into this description, but those who do are those to whom CA should be paying more attention to and responding more promptly to. There are legitimate, identical concerns being raised by many people. CA doesn't need to mess p their 'work of genious' to appease us, but they should provide us with the tools to mod it easily ourselves.

[CBR]

Well some of the harsh words has come from the MP community. A few of the remarks has been close to insulting. But these words come from a frustrated MP community that looks at a game that has gone back in time.

Some of the bugs and missing features makes RTW look like a combination of STW 1.0 and MTW 1.0. At this stage the MP community would be busy complaining about faction/unit balance now its fighting just to get features back that we have been used to for years.

CA has clearly outdone themselves with the SP campaign but for lots of multiplayers RTW has been a complete letdown. The developers that visits Org are not even to blame for it as most of the problems comes from higher level design decisions, so its sad they have to listen to all the bitching here. But its not easy not to say something when you are as frustrated as I know several MP'ers are.


CBR

[Thoros of Myr]

As someone that has been a consumer and supporter of select games that I feel represent the best of electronic entertainment for most of my life I have never seen a game that was abandoned leave people with a good taste in thier mouth. I have seen games better supported, better patched, developers better understood and represented in forums where both consumers and developers are vocal about thier concerns and issues. In such an environment brand loyalty is bred even in spite of problems.

It's not a pleasant sight to view the fallout where consumers have been abandoned...it's makes this place look like a petting zoo.

No one is helping the game one bit by putting words like "stupid", "idiotic", "retarded", etc in their descriptions of what CA have accomplished.

Agreed. Frustration and immaturity all too often get the better of people.

[TigerVX]

Better patched? It hasn't even been out for a month yet >>;;;.

[Thoros of Myr]

Better patched? It hasn't even been out for a month yet >>;;;.

I'm not talking about RTW specificly in that sentance, I'm talking about games I have seen in the past.

[Indylavi]

Servius, the problem with less polite approach is that you won't provoke any CA response earlier. In fact you’re likely to provoke a non-response. I was a forum member of a game where the devs did post in the forum quite often. After the millionth Attn Devs Stupid Bug fix now!!! posts, they simply left and never came back. Also, this game has not been out long at all. It’s a wonder we have a patch already. Patches take time and often are levels of authorization they have to go through. One game I played had a patch that took 3 months. 2 full months after the devs posted on their website that they finished it and sent it to the publisher for approval. The publisher sat on it for 2 months. So CA can’t just turn out a patch. I guess people want a blog everyday from the devs. Today worked on this bug for three hours, type messages. Those aren’t likely to happen any time soon from any game.

[Ranges]

The first time you say "Excuse me CA, can I talk to you about something?" Ignored, the second time you say "Hey, I need to talk to you about something." Then "HEY! Are you even listening to us!?" And then, at the end of that negative procession, "Jackass is deaf, dumb, or doesn't care."

Servius,

You bought the game, not their lives.
You have a right to the game, as played, and support from a (paid) customer support service to adress any issues you have with the game.

Any responses by developers (ie: people who make games, not tech support / customer support people) is an extra service. I think we should be damn gratefull for every post those CA devs make on this forum.
I know i am.

Sorry if this comes over as mouthing you off.. It's just that i feel bad as a player of these games, when i read such harsh criticism on the developers when they're doing more than just their jobs.

Captain Fishpants, it's you guys that deserve the hugs *grins*


I hope you all didnt burn out too badly on the development process.. ;)

[Oaty]

Unfortanately all the old posts from about July and on got deleted due to having a new board. But since I frequented these forums I noticed that a lot of the oddball features that people posted here were in the game. Do'nt know how many of them actually were already in progress and how many of them picked up the idea from this board but it sure seemed this board had a lot of input to the game.

Hey wait a minute maybe they stole all our ideas..... that sounds like war to me ........ TOTaL WAR

[Lord Ovaat]

I just posted in another thread--right before reading this one--that it is probably time we actually make a list and compared MTW and RTW gameplay, battle and campaign, item for item. While MP might have been a let-down, I think all would be happily surprised to see how many items of play were improved. And many of those, I'm sure, were in response to discussions in this and other forums. Yes, they do listen. I, for one, thank you guys, CF. This is your life's work. Just a game to us. OMG! Maybe that's worse? Maybe we are a little looney? We don't even get paid.

[SpencerH]

This is the first TW game that I bought on day 1, so this is my first experience with a non-patched TW and the hubbub associated with the inevitable glitches, tweaks, and errors found in first versions. For the most part, I've found the criticisms posted here to be very mildly worded compared to those aimed at civ2 and 3 (when those games were just out of the gate).

In my experience, I've found that well worded criticisms are more likely to grab developers attentions and sometimes they're fixed. Does that mean that the rabid rants are less valid? Not to me. Sometimes a spade needs to be called a spade. For example, when a highly anticipated game is shipped where the fighters dont intercept bombers and there are bugs that end PBEM games after months of play, what should we call it? Given that the game was beta tested by community members, I call it stupid and irresponsible. Sugar-coating the comments in order to hopefully 'catch the eye of the developers' and avoid being called a whiner by fanboys is crap.

The SP game is pretty good. I think there are facets that should be changed and others that must be changed (to satisfy me) but they are subjective choices and IMO there are no real 'game-ending' errors. The MP game was another 'kettle of fish' however. That CA acted quickly to fix the MP problems doesnt change the fact that the MP'ers had every reason to be pissed off and to vent their opinions on these threads. I havent found the folks at CA who post here to be 'shrinking violets' and I see no need to treat them as such. They seem to be quite capable of providing their own sarcastic comments and rebuttal to posts they take issue with. (What else would one expect?) Not that I expect them to, but if they run away because they read threads that they dont like, what does that say about their commitment to the community and to addressing problems with the game?

[Gregoshi]

...it sure seemed this board had a lot of input to the game.

I'll give you two examples.

1) Back in the MTW/VI days (so long ago ), there was a thread or two about features we'd like to see in the TW games. I know I and a few others mentioned having population figure into the game - you can't train troops if you've bled yourself dry. Well, I was very surprised and pleased to see population figure in the game, and in a few more ways that I had envisioned. Most excellent!

2) Another idea was for some kind of history or recount of the campaigns you play. They didn't impliment such a feature the way it was described back then (Alpha Centauri-like recap), but it is there in RTW and in a very creative and cool way - the family tree and the "famous battles" marks on the campaign map. Now who doesn't like looking at maps with crossed swords on them?

We've seen similar things in MTW and VI too. They do listen even if they don't always reply.

[SpencerH]

I'll give you two examples.

We've seen similar things in MTW and VI too. They do listen even if they don't always reply.

I've seen exactly the same thing with the CIV threads/creators.