Wishlist for new patch

[Amon_Zeth]

Here is my wishlist for the new patch. Feel free to add on whatever you would like to see as well.

Weaken chariots- They were not that effective at this time period thanks to cavalry. Their only advantage initially was their possibility for causing terror among enemy troops, but they move slowly, turned slowly, proved difficult for aiming for the few archers onboard due to motion, and were very unstable. Yet I see them rushing through infantry, whipping about, then rushing over them again. I send cavalry against them, but they all too easily circle around and turn them into dog food. They should only be used for causing terror to punch a hole through enemy lines, and, maybe, provide some covering fire.

Phalanx stepping right- This is especially annoying. Yes, it may be historically accurate, but it is irritating and makes it more difficult to defend against attackers. Plus, it's perfectly acceptable to drop a detail, especially a relatively obscure one, that's historically accurate in favor of enjoyment of the game.

Squalor- I don't understand why squalor has to increase when farms, sanitation, and trade facilities are built. It's completely illogical that a person would live in more filth with plumbing, baths, cheap consumer goods and plenty of food, and that there would be more crime because of the availability of these items. Temple squalor increases from growth should be increased, maybe, because temples don't really do anything about quality of life, unless they're charities (which I doubt.) Regardless, trade, sanitation, and farming should have a factor that lowers squalor, maybe in place of growth bonuses, but either way they should lower squalor in both the short and long term.

Otherwise, great game. :)

[Turbo]

Here is my wishlist for the new patch. Feel free to add on whatever you would like to see as well.

Weaken chariots- They were not that effective at this time period thanks to cavalry. Their only advantage initially was their possibility for causing terror among enemy troops, but they move slowly, turned slowly, proved difficult for aiming for the few archers onboard due to motion, and were very unstable. Yet I see them rushing through infantry, whipping about, then rushing over them again. I send cavalry against them, but they all too easily circle around and turn them into dog food. They should only be used for causing terror to punch a hole through enemy lines, and, maybe, provide some covering fire.

Phalanx stepping right- This is especially annoying. Yes, it may be historically accurate, but it is irritating and makes it more difficult to defend against attackers. Plus, it's perfectly acceptable to drop a detail, especially a relatively obscure one, that's historically accurate in favor of enjoyment of the game.

Squalor- I don't understand why squalor has to increase when farms, sanitation, and trade facilities are built. It's completely illogical that a person would live in more filth with plumbing, baths, cheap consumer goods and plenty of food, and that there would be more crime because of the availability of these items. Temple squalor increases from growth should be increased, maybe, because temples don't really do anything about quality of life, unless they're charities (which I doubt.) Regardless, trade, sanitation, and farming should have a factor that lowers squalor, maybe in place of growth bonuses, but either way they should lower squalor in both the short and long term.

Otherwise, great game. :)

I agree about the Phalanx stepping right, but I disagree about the chariots and Squalor. The right combination of tactics, 2-3 foot archers can cripple chariots. Squalor is a great feature of the game. Cities at this time were living cesspools, and this included Rome. "He who controls the mob, controls Rome", indeed!

[Colovion]

I wish that Phalanx troops had some kind of anti-cav when they're moving. It sucks when you march towards Cav and the Cav use their Nitro before you're ready - tell your Phalanx to stop, but it's too late - the Cav have already crashed through the pikes and slaughter half of your Hoplites. To have a good anti-cav with phalanx troops the Phalanx needs to be stopped AND have their shields in front of them - which takes a good 4 seconds for it to happen.

[Ktonos]

1. Give Spartans crested helmets...(minor)

2. Make all factions playable from the start...(average)

3. Slow down the running speed of light infantry and light cavalry...(major)

4. Make Diplomacy AI realistic...(MAJOR)

5. Make Diplomacy AI realistic...(MAJOR)

6. Make Diplomacy AI realistic...(MAJOR)

7. Make Diplomacy AI realistic...(MAJOR)

...

[R'as al Ghul]

Squalor- I don't understand why squalor has to increase when farms, sanitation, and trade facilities are built. It's completely illogical that a person would live in more filth with plumbing, baths, cheap consumer goods and plenty of food, and that there would be more crime because of the availability of these items. Temple squalor increases from growth should be increased, maybe, because temples don't really do anything about quality of life, unless they're charities (which I doubt.) Regardless, trade, sanitation, and farming should have a factor that lowers squalor, maybe in place of growth bonuses, but either way they should lower squalor in both the short and long term.

I think this has been recognized by Jerome Grasdyke as a bug. He said iirc that it will be adressed in a 1.02 patch.

R'as

[The_Emperor]

Ktonos, I think many of those aspects are open to debate and are not really gameplay destroying bugs... Nor is it anything that is likely to be fixed by a patch.

You can easily play all the factions yourself by modding the game.

At any rate, this is my wishlist.

1) Fix the Squalor bug, this is getting irritating. I dislike having to commit genocide to keep the people happy, but sadly its neccessary to avoid revolts

2) Campaign Battle Replays. I know this is asking a lot, but I really miss this feature and wish for it to be back in.

3) Cavalry can no longer ride & jump through a Phalanx from the front and slaughter the Hoplites... It is very unrealistic that the horses can jump a wall of spears at least 3 spears deep and land in the middle of the formation, the anti-cav bonuses need improving.

4) Fix the protectrate cashflow bug, where the factions that is made your Protectorate steals all your money.

5) Weaken the Egyptian Axemen and Chariot Archers. These guys seem to be able to plow through everything without dying, make them like the Briton Chariots (vulnerable) and axemen shouldn't have the same armour rating as a Roman Legionnaire when all they wear is a skirt!

[Ktonos]

Well, the listed as major, are indeed m a j o r features to be fixed in the patch.

Diplomacy AI MUST get realistic. I am not talking to get less aggressive. If factions see that can benefit from a sneak attack then they must do it. If they would better benefit with an alliance with another AI faction or the player then they should try to avoid conflicts. Diplomats of foreign countries should conduct the player much more. Its like the player is the only one to care for diplomatic relations.

I don't think that enhancing Diplomacy AI is debatable.

[Boohugh]

The diplomacy AI isn't as bad as you make it out to be and there is a good guide on diplomacy. Think how much of an improvement it has been over MTW. It may not be perfect but its so much better, so give CA some credit.

As for the other bugs such as squalor and protectorate bug, Gerome has said they are fixing it in a patch. CA know about it and are fixing it, so complaining about it, it won't help

[jeffreyLebowski]

ai diplomacy could definetely use work. when i've spent the past 20 years walloping a faction and they've only got 2 cities remaining, they should be more than thrilled to become a protectorate or at least agree to a ceasefire. instead, they insist on fighting to the death.

REPLAYS FOR CAMPAIGN BATTLES is not an wish.... it's a must have. the fact that this isn't in the game to begin with is an incredibly bad decision. i can't stand buying a sequel and seeing features REMOVED. it's happened in other game series before, and it's the most WTF-inspiring design decision of all time.

fix the AI for generals (both friendly and hostile). seriously, this has been a problem in 3 games running now. as fun as it is to watch my 9 star general charge into a thousand men by his lonesome, i think it might be time to fix this problem. which brings me to another point....

allow me to control all of my armies. if i bring 3 armies onto the field, just give me a simple switch army button and allow me to give orders to all of them myself. at the very least, i should be allowed to pick which army to command. why in god's name would i want to control CAPTAIN IMPORTUS MINIMUS while my 9 star faction leader GENERAL BADASSICUS THE LEWD is out of my control?

isn't it ironic, however, that i will probably play RTW all night tonight despite all these complaints. damn CA and their addicting games!

[Doug-Thompson]

Infantry foot speed is probably the biggest issue, but I would like to point out that infantry already die like flies to horse archers.

Cutting infantry speed (including foot archer speed) will make this worse. Players are already arguing that HA are overpowered. I disagree. I'd argue that the skirmish mode is much improved, and that's the bulk of it.

While I'm single-player only, I think CA boosted the speed because most casual, on-line players didn't care for the, shall we say, deliberate pacing of MTW battles. So I'd say that a slower speed needs to be included, but needs to be an option.

========

Frankly, I don't see that the diplomacy system is noticeably worse than Civilization III or any other game I've ever played, and it's a whole lot better than most.

Making factions give up at a "logical" point when they are beaten down is a serious balance issue. Adopting that would make the game more realistic -- and much, much easier.

========

Bribery needs to be tweaked. It's too easy to buy your way to victory once you're the biggest faction.

[The_Dude]

What would be nice as well is to have the fort being useful. At the moment you can build a fort and the enemy can passe just in front without your men moving or even worst, if you are under attack you start inside the fort. The garnison should have the choice of "intercepting" the passing army or the fort should block a surface around him.
I build a fort near the pyrenee (north of spain) to block any incoming army from spain. I stack like 400 men in it, and let it. Then I realise it was useless when the closest city from the border was under siege. A spanish army of 300 men just pass without me noticing it....

[Lord Ovaat]

One of the biggest complaints I've heard since the Demo came out has concerned the "high" speed of all the units. Not true. Sorry. Granted, it does make things far more unmanageable for multiplayer, and nerve-wracking for singleplayer, but the speeds are pretty realistic. I have actually seen a squadron of cavalry at a full gallop charge. Scares the crap out of you, and, no, you can't get away from them. Granted, they should never be able to "jump" over pointed steel, but they are surprisingly fast. Roman infantry was armoured, but not as heavily as later periods. Besides, these men were professionals. Hardened. And the kill rate? If you've ever fenced or even been to a fencing match, you realized how quick the blade can be. Forget the movies, folks. Death and injury come fast in battle of this type. If for no other reason, than it is absolutely exhausting to fight hand-to-hand. Wrestling, real wrestling, which is similar in nature to the intense energy output one would experience in combat drains the participant faster than just about any other sport. Simply because one is straining almost ALL of the muscle groups at the same time. While it is historically accurate that many classical battles were fought for several hours, that doesn't mean that all troops were engaged at all times. That would be physically impossible. And when everything else is said and done, one must remember there is very little finesse in massed melee combat. No room. No time. Extreme confusion. It just doesn't take very long to suffer a serious wound. That is what made Roman tactics and weaponry so devastating. Simple. Deadly. Just push and stab, always on the offensive. It is interesting to note that the Zulu used almost identical tactics to subdue most of the tribes of South Africa. Their asagai, or short spear, was used the same way as the gladius, and in conjunction with their shield. Leathal.

Actually, what we need to do is make a list of the miriad improvements in RTW over MTW. Compare item for item and most will see that CA actually did listen to us. Mostly. But you can't give everything to everyone.

[Ktonos]

I am not ranting or whinning over here. I am playing RTW all day too, its a far better game than MTW and most of the gameplay problems player encounter are either endurable or moddable.

Since STW I ranked every game of the series on my top-5 but never top-1. I believe that I am not the only one, but then again if I am, I am just posting my humble opinion. STW, MTW and RTW lack a good diplomatic module. Well in RTW there are the features but they seam to be just there.

I believe that in RTW everything has been improved from MTW. I mean everything. Even the battle AI. The game win many many points on the small and hard parts to make (great graphics playable even on older systems, and "hundreds" of little things from ambushing to pre battle speeches and the "toggle follow general camera")

BUT it seems that the easy part, Diplomacy (its easy because we have seen it before on Civ3 or EU2) is not done. I know they are able to make a good Diplomacy AI and I just don't know why. And I Diplomacy is the only thing I am really complaigning about. Because I know its very hard to fix it with a patch.

[jeffreyLebowski]

please, for the love of god, don't force the sleep-inducing pace of MTW on all RTW players. if you want to make a more flexible time slider, which allows players to slow down the pace of the game IF THEY WISH, then hey, go for it. more options = more happy players. but some players, like myself, really enjoy the quicker pace of RTW. nothing annoyed me more than ordering a cavalry charge in MTW and watching as my cavalry plodded towards the enemy at 1 mile per hour and then had no discernable effect upon making contact. MTW infantry speeds were near catatonic. please, make speed adjustment an OPTION, not a balance change and everyone goes home happy.

[The_Emperor]

Oh one thing I think should be included in a patch but forgot to add...

The option for Disabling The campaign battle time limit in the game options menu.

[fastspawn]

i know it might sound like RTW would be a Starcraft clickfest if this is implemented, but can we actually hotkey individual units for better microing?

[SpencerH]

Roman infantry was armoured, but not as heavily as later periods. Besides, these men were professionals. Hardened.

In a place far far away and a time long long ago I was a professional too. Hardened. No modern inf runs as fast as those guys except for very short bursts and thats not in formation either. I doubt that armoured troops could run in formation at that speed on a parade square (never mind cross country).

[ChaosDrake]

a faster mouse movement on the strategy map!!!! its annoying those slow motion mouse cursor!

[Amon_Zeth]

Just two more suggestions, one minor and one (relatively) major.

Minor- Make it like MTW where you can choose to claim a lesser victory after you claim X amount of territories, or keep playing to try and rule the world. Sure, it may be nigh impossible, but I'd still like to try it.

Major- Fix the archers so that, unless specifically directed to, they won't fire at an enemy when it would endanger your own troops. It's quite irritating to see an enemy run forward, make my archers skirmish, then almost instantly pull back and have my archers solidify and begin to make pin-cushions out of my soldier's backs.

[Nelson]

When battles are over I would like to control the camera. I would also like to minimize the stat screen while I look around at the carnage.

[d6veteran]

Please, for the love of god, don't force the sleep-inducing pace of MTW on all RTW players.

Agreed!

I can see maybe tweaking some of the speeds *slightly*, but overall the speeds are a big improvement over MTW.

[Jambo]

OK, some short and concise points here:

1. Siege AI.
- AI units should abandon destroyed siege equipment and do something other than getting destroyed by castle defences.
- AI should try using sapping points.

2. Fix any bugs.
- squalor bug.
- flashing icons upon building shipwright and higher.
- suicidal generals. AI should value their family members more.
- protectorate bug where player loses vast amounts of cash to protectorate.
- bridge bug where entire units sometimes die upon routing.
- bug where Greek Royal Pikeman don't have long_spear.
- experience gained by auto-resolving battles is greater than when fighting the battles.

3. Don't alter speed.

4. Diplomacy
- selling map information appears to be slightly exploitable.
- it would be nice if alliances and military access might be achievable on higher difficulty levels.
- it would be nice if alliances and the attack factions option would be a more achievable.
- at the moment diplomacy on the very hard difficulty level, other than exploiting cash for map info, seems kind of redundant.
- the cost of Bribing should be proportional to one's income.

5. Ships.
- lessen the amount of ships the AI builds as it's a little excessive and will be a massive drain on their economy.
- AI should attempt to blockade human ports and be more proactive at relieving their own blockaded ports.

6. Increase chance of ambushing and being ambushed. Great feature but under utilised.

7. AI should build assassins.

8. Improve Carthage a little.

9. Move Marian Reforms back a little. Triari are rarely used.

Most of these should be relatively straightforward; nothing involves any major alterations and the majority are bugs or quick fixes.

Hope you listen.

regards

[Jambo]

Another rather important bug with regards to when the AI has reinforcements during an assault of a city.

Basically, the AI reinforcements (i.e. second army) won't do anything if they haven't brought their own siege equipment and the walls/gate aren't broken. They simply remain stationary even when the initial attacking army has been routed or withdraws. They just sit there. Unfortunately, I play without the timer on and unless I decide to go out and meet them (i.e. sally forth), I essentially have to ESC and quit the battle simply to continue the game! I was astonished when this gave me loss considering I was the defender... not only this but I also lost the city!

Very bad. :(

[metatron]

Change "Scipii" to the correct "Scipiones".

[ICantSpellDawg]

to put more than one type of tree in the game might make the battles seem a bit better

[Dead Moroz]

Double or even triple the time of battles and sieges! That stupid 20-30 minutes are sooooo annoying and unrealistic! I hate to lose sieges just few minutes before I should win it!

And make the option to turn on/off time limit before and during campaign.

[sapi]

Diplomacy AI MUST get realistic. I am not talking to get less aggressive. If factions see that can benefit from a sneak attack then they must do it. If they would better benefit with an alliance with another AI faction or the player then they should try to avoid conflicts. Diplomats of foreign countries should conduct the player much more. Its like the player is the only one to care for diplomatic relations.

I don't care for dipliomacy! But the AI should accept protecrates and ceasefires when they're being destroyed, not fight to the death, as mentioned earlier. Also, the AI should buy into the 'protection' racket. Whenever i say 'accept or i'll attack' the ai will either say they'll take their chances (against rome - come on) or that they dont trust me - and i've never broken any treaties!

[Jambo]

Can't one of the moderators make one of these Patch Wish List threads a sticky!?!?

[Turbo]

My vote would be to address the movement and killing speeds and sloooooow them down. CA has pointed out potential game balance issues with using the killing rate mod, so in my mind that needs to be addressed in the patch.

It is kinda like Scotty has locked himself in engineering, does not respond to the bridge and has cranked the warp speed to 15!

[Jambo]

How ironic that a forum member called Turbo is suggesting a change to game and killing speed! ;)